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Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: ROCA Bishops ask forgiveness from

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  • Fr. John R. Shaw
    ... JRS: In general what Vl. Lavr says about spiritual things, has always been spiritually consoling -- and this has been my impression for decades! But it
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 22, 2003
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      George Skok wrote:

      > I am at a loss about the "profit" you [Michael Nikitin] speak of.
      >
      > On the other hand, there is a very spiritually consoling statement
      > by Vl. Lavr on the Synod website - I hope it comes out in English
      > soon!
      >
      > http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/Novosti-2003/mLavr_Nov21.html

      JRS: In general what Vl. Lavr says about spiritual things, has always
      been spiritually consoling -- and this has been my impression for
      decades!

      But it seems to me that most of us either realized, or at least
      *should* have realized, what the Metropolitan says in the above
      epistle.

      The problem is that there are others who deliberately try to sow
      confusion and discord, and they, too, have been at it for some time.

      In Christ
      Fr. John R. Shaw
    • orthodoxchurch_sg
      ... statement ... English ... always ... Do you know when this will be avaiable in English, Father? Fr Daniel
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 22, 2003
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        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John R. Shaw"
        <vrevjrs@e...> wrote:
        > George Skok wrote:
        >
        > > I am at a loss about the "profit" you [Michael Nikitin] speak of.
        > >
        > > On the other hand, there is a very spiritually consoling
        statement
        > > by Vl. Lavr on the Synod website - I hope it comes out in
        English
        > > soon!
        > >
        > > http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/Novosti-2003/mLavr_Nov21.html
        >
        > JRS: In general what Vl. Lavr says about spiritual things, has
        always
        > been spiritually consoling -- and this has been my impression for
        > decades!

        >
        > In Christ
        > Fr. John R. Shaw

        Do you know when this will be avaiable in English, Father?
        Fr Daniel
      • Fr. John R. Shaw
        ... JRS: I do not understand who/what FSB is [Flavian Sergeevitch Bolotov?]. I m sure that shows gross ignorance of something or other... to slow ... JRS:
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 30, 2003
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          George Skok wrote:

          > So it may, in fact, all depend what one is hoping for. Yet here
          > where I live I have seen that the effect of Vladyka's statement has
          > been, on the most ardent obviously-FSB-inspired unionists...

          JRS: I do not understand who/what FSB is [Flavian Sergeevitch
          Bolotov?]. I'm sure that shows gross ignorance of something or other...

          to slow
          > them down and give them reason to think things through,

          JRS: However, for someone in ROCOR to be in favor of Russian Church
          reconciliation, I believe they would *already* have to have done a lot
          of serious thinking, and for a long time.

          > and on the
          > most determined anti-MP aka KGB aka anti-ecclesiastical virus of the
          > day types, to give them hope that what happens next may be orderly.

          JRS: Which, of course, simply shows that some people must have been
          confused and ill-informed.

          For me, Metropolitan Lavr's statement contained *no* surprises, happy
          or sad.

          It simply was a reminder of what everyone should have known, to begin
          with: that this visit of our bishops to Moscow was only a "get-
          acquainted session", and nothing more, for now.

          Note that what the Patriarch said was even *more* cautious: he remarked
          that "the road will not be an easy one", and that things should not be
          expected to change at least till next fall, since the Patriarchal side
          is planning a Sobor to discuss this, around then.

          As I see it, *both* sides need to try and return to the mentality of
          the Russian Church before the revolution, on many crucial issues.

          There has been a process of polarization since then: with the influence
          of the late Metropolitan Nikodim on the Patriarchal side, and that of
          the former archimandrite Panteleimon on the Church Abroad side.

          But there were once brighter days, more optimistic days, days when the
          Russian Church was able not only to live without internecine fighting,
          not only to survive, -- but to undertake active missions!

          In Christ
          Fr. John R. Shaw
        • cantor71
          ... has ... other... FSB = Federal naya Sluzhba Bezopasnosti = Federal Security Service, the successor group to the KGB. ... Church ... lot ... the ...
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 1, 2003
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            Father, bless:


            --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John R. Shaw"
            <vrevjrs@e...> wrote:
            > George Skok wrote:
            >
            > > So it may, in fact, all depend what one is hoping for. Yet here
            > > where I live I have seen that the effect of Vladyka's statement
            has
            > > been, on the most ardent obviously-FSB-inspired unionists...
            >
            > JRS: I do not understand who/what FSB is [Flavian Sergeevitch
            > Bolotov?]. I'm sure that shows gross ignorance of something or
            other...

            FSB = Federal'naya Sluzhba Bezopasnosti = Federal Security Service,
            the successor group to the KGB.

            > to slow
            > > them down and give them reason to think things through,
            >
            > JRS: However, for someone in ROCOR to be in favor of Russian
            Church
            > reconciliation, I believe they would *already* have to have done a
            lot
            > of serious thinking, and for a long time.
            >
            > > and on the
            > > most determined anti-MP aka KGB aka anti-ecclesiastical virus of
            the
            > > day types, to give them hope that what happens next may be
            orderly.
            >
            > JRS: Which, of course, simply shows that some people must have
            been
            > confused and ill-informed.
            >
            > For me, Metropolitan Lavr's statement contained *no* surprises,
            happy
            > or sad.
            >
            > It simply was a reminder of what everyone should have known, to
            begin
            > with: that this visit of our bishops to Moscow was only a "get-
            > acquainted session", and nothing more, for now.

            Unfortunately, where I am, the polarization of views is a reality,
            so there are people who are less well informed about things than one
            would hope. One priest had been giving the impression that there was
            little left to do but dot the i's and cross the t's, and on the
            other side people did not wish to hear one good thing about the
            church in Russia and condemned a union which had not yet taken
            place. The Metropolitans' letter, threfore, came at a good time!

            George
          • Fr. John R. Shaw
            ... JRS: There are few people more deserving of trust than Metropolitan Laurus. And he is a *very* careful and safe captain, at the helm of the Church s ship!
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 1, 2003
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              George Skok wrote:

              > Unfortunately, where I am, the polarization of views is a reality,
              > so there are people who are less well informed about things than one
              > would hope. One priest had been giving the impression that there was
              > little left to do but dot the i's and cross the t's, and on the
              > other side people did not wish to hear one good thing about the
              > church in Russia and condemned a union which had not yet taken
              > place. The Metropolitans' letter, threfore, came at a good time!

              JRS: There are few people more deserving of trust than Metropolitan
              Laurus. And he is a *very* careful and safe captain, at the helm of the
              Church's ship!

              As for the "dotting of i's and crossing of t's" -- no doubt; except
              that there are still so many of both, that remain to be dotted and
              crossed!

              What has happened is that the two sides have finally resumed *talking*.
              It remains to begin the process of *rebuilding*.

              In Christ
              Fr. John R. Shaw
            • michael nikitin
              Resumed *talking*. ?? Didn t know we were talking before these meetings of our bishops. Hope early next year Metr.Laurus will serve and commune at the
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 3, 2003
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                "Resumed *talking*."??

                Didn't know we were talking before these meetings
                of our bishops. Hope early next year Metr.Laurus
                will serve and commune at the Cathedral. I'm tired of
                waiting. They should just do what they'll do anyway
                and give everyone a rest.

                Michael N.


                "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@...> wrote:

                George Skok wrote:

                > Unfortunately, where I am, the polarization of views is a reality,
                > so there are people who are less well informed about things than one
                > would hope. One priest had been giving the impression that there was
                > little left to do but dot the i's and cross the t's, and on the
                > other side people did not wish to hear one good thing about the
                > church in Russia and condemned a union which had not yet taken
                > place. The Metropolitans' letter, threfore, came at a good time!

                JRS: There are few people more deserving of trust than Metropolitan
                Laurus. And he is a *very* careful and safe captain, at the helm of the
                Church's ship!

                As for the "dotting of i's and crossing of t's" -- no doubt; except
                that there are still so many of both, that remain to be dotted and
                crossed!

                What has happened is that the two sides have finally resumed *talking*.
                It remains to begin the process of *rebuilding*.

                In Christ
                Fr. John R. Shaw




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              • frvboldewskul@aol.com
                In a message dated 12/3/03 2:25:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, ... Dear Michael, I will pass on your above stated feelings next week at the pastoral conference.
                Message 7 of 7 , Dec 3, 2003
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                  In a message dated 12/3/03 2:25:23 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                  nikitinmike@... writes:

                  > "Resumed *talking*."??
                  >
                  > Didn't know we were talking before these meetings
                  > of our bishops. Hope early next year Metr.Laurus
                  > will serve and commune at the Cathedral. I'm tired of
                  > waiting. They should just do what they'll do anyway
                  > and give everyone a rest.
                  >
                  > Michael N.
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  Dear Michael,
                  I will pass on your above stated feelings next week at the pastoral
                  conference.
                  Priest Victor Boldewskul


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