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Re: My Great Concern! Your councel.....

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  • sputnikpsalomschchika
    So cross posting from another informal list to this Yahoo list is now condoned? I don t appreciate seeing my comments cut and pasted from one place to another
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 3, 2003
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      So cross posting from another informal list to this Yahoo list is now
      condoned? I don't appreciate seeing my comments cut and pasted from
      one place to another out of context in this manner.

      Reader Michael Malloy
      Columbus Ohio


      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, StephenATL <sbu@b...> wrote:
      > Dear Reverend Hierarchs and Fathers;
      >
      > Bless ye! Evlogeite! Blagoslovite!
      >
      > Please read my reply below and grant me your learned counsel, to
      calm my
      > troubled soul:
      >
      > . . . This is what distresses me so much about the Monastery of the
      > Glorious Ascension, leaving ROCOR and going to the Jerusalem
      > Patriarchate. (Refering/replying to below . . .) While I laud and
      > applaud the JP's traditional stance and following the church (old)
      > calendar; the JP is in full communion with the Moscow Patriarchate and
      > the OCA.
      >
      > This places the MGA in the awkward, strange and ridiculous position of
      > being in full communion with the very Archbishop (Dmitri of Dallas) who
      > suspended them, and with the very church (the OCA) which they left over
      > the very fact of the OCA's modernism, new calendar, innovations and
      > betrayals of Orthodoxy, and the rejection of the 'proper' reception of
      > converts to the Holy Orthodox Faith, i.e. by baptism. YES, by
      being in
      > the Jerusalem Patriarchate....... the Monastery of the Glorious
      > Ascension is now in full communion with the OCA, the Moscow
      > Patriarchate; and God forbid, even the 'Archheresiarch' the Freemason,
      > New Calendarist, Jesuit, betrayer of Orthodox and 'Pope of the East',
      > Bartholomew of Constantinople.
      >
      > Can this situation be more sad or ridiculous?? This is why I was SO
      > SHOCKED by their departure from ROCOR (despite ROCOR's
      imperfections....
      > i.e. ROCOR is made up of humans and is not perfect...) to the JP.
      >
      > The ROCOR, unlike the Greek and Romanian Old Calendarist resisters,
      who
      > rightfully and voluntarily, "walled themselves off" from the
      > new-calendarist ecumenists/modernists; the ROCOR, initially and
      > involuntarily was 'de facto' excommunicated and "walled-in" by the
      > ecumenists SCOBA, when it prohibited its clergy and faithful from
      having
      > communion and concelebrations with ROCOR!!! After a while, it
      seems
      > that the Hierarchs of ROCOR realized that this was God's will, to
      > protect the purity of Orthodoxy and the Faithful from innovation,
      > modernism, ecumenism, etc. Thus, now the ROCOR bishops forbid
      > communion and concelebration with non-ROCOR members (except for those
      > with whom ROCOR 'IS' in full common; such as the Greek (Met. Cyprian),
      > Romanian and Bulgarian Old Calendarists).
      >
      > This is also why 'reunion' of ROCOR and the MP should be VERY SLOW.
      > While the MP may be 'free' of the 'Atheist' government, etc. It is
      not
      > free of sergianism, innovation, and especially and worst of all the
      > 'Panheresy' of Ecumenism. (On the contrary, it is becoming more and
      > more involved in it!!!)
      >
      > Stephanos Upton
      > St. Mary of Egypt Parish, ROCOR
      > Atlanta, Georgia
      > a great sinner, who needs a 'pure' spiritual-hospital (which the
      Church
      > is) like ROCOR, to heal me of my numerous sinful and spiritual
      maladies.
      >
      >
      > Reader Michael Malloy wrote:
      >
      > > It is very good to see the support Rostislav is receiving for his
      > > correct comments about the issue at hand. I add my own support and
      > > encouragement!
      > >
      > > In my opinion, the Russian Orthodox Church in Russia is still at
      risk.
      > > It has made progress after the fall of the Soviet state, but there is
      > > still much work to be done. This business of getting close to the
      > > Uniates is absolute folly. Who can say more about the absolute
      > > stupidity of ecumenism? Both are non negotiables.
      > >
      > > I am a convert, going on seven years now. My convert zeal is more
      > > subdued than it was originally, but I hope it is still strong and
      > > correct. My spiritual father taught me to hold to the true faith and
      > > never to compromise to "novelties" which are creeping into some
      > > jurisdictions these days. My personal attraction has always been to
      > > the Russian practice as maintained by the ROCOR even though I am
      now a
      > > Reader in an OCA parish - new calendar and all. ;-(
      > >
      > > The truth is only found in unaltered Orthodox Christianity. It's not
      > > broken, so there is no need to "fix it."
      > >
      > > Reader Michael Malloy
      > > Columbus Ohio
      > >
      > >
      > > At 03:40 PM 10/1/03 -0400, you wrote: Dear Rostislav,
      > >
      > >> I am not from Russia ,but you are absolutely
      right.Ecumenism is
      > >> invading and it is dangerous.Worldwide Orthodoxy has to unite in
      > >> Truth and according to Holy Tradition .It is a blessing if all
      > >> Orthodox agree and fight this heresy. Compromise is not an option.It
      > >> is betrayal of the Truth.And yes,you are right :physical death is
      > >> preferable than spiritual death.
      > >> In Christ,
      > >> Melpomeni Mari.
      > >>
      > > ***************************************************************
      > > Yahoo!, anything for a buck, is a proud sponsor of SPAM
      > > ***************************************************************
      > >
      > > Reader Michael Malloy
      > > Choir director
      > > Saint Nicholas the Wonderworker Orthodox Church (OCA)
      > > Columbus Ohio
      > > ReaderMichael@m...
      > > (Work e mail remains: malloy.2@o...)
      > >
      > > "A Psalm is the tranquility of souls, the arbitrator of peace,
      > > restraining the disorder and turbulence of thoughts, for it softens
      > > the passion of the soul and moderates its unruliness. A Psalm forms
      > > friendships, unites the divided, mediates between enemies. For who
      can
      > > still consider him an enemy with whom he has set forth one voice to
      > > God? So that the singing of Psalms brings love, the greatest of good
      > > things, contriving harmony like some bond of union and uniting the
      > > people in the symphony of a single choir."
      > >
      > > St. Basil the Great; in: Strunk, W. Oliver (William Oliver), 1901-
      comp.:
      > > Source readings in music history from classical antiquity through the
      > > romantic era. New York, Norton [1950]
      > >
      >
      >------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > >
      > >_______________________________________________
      > >Newsletter mailing list
      > >Newsletter@m...
      > >http://monastery.org/mailman/listinfo/newsletter_monastery.org
      > >
      > >
    • michael nikitin
      Fr. Alexander Lebedeff wrote: This is simply not true. There is absolutely no official Resolution by the Sobor or Synod of Bishops
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 3, 2003
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        "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff" <lebedeff@...> wrote:

        "This is simply not true. There is absolutely no official Resolution by the Sobor or Synod of Bishops of the ROCOR forbidding communion and concelebration with non-ROCOR members. Such concelebrations occur quite frequently. (Clergy from the Serbian Patriarchate consistently concelebrate
        with ROCOR bishops (see the pictures of the St. Job of Pochaev celebration in Jordanville for a Serbian priest serving with Metropolitan Laurus). A clergyman of the Jerusalem Patriarchate concelebrated with Bishop KirilI at the St. Seraphim celebrations in Monterey. Cordial relations exist between
        bishops and clergy of the ROCOR and SCOBA jurisdictions in many places (Bishop Job of Chicago--OCA--was present at the consecration of Bishop Peter in Chicago, and was warmly greeted by Metropolitan Laurus and all of the ROCOR bishops and clergy present) So where are these prohibitions?"


        Anathema Against Ecumenism. Pronounced in 1983 and reaffirmed in 1998 by
        the Synod of Bishops of ROCA.

        Michael N.




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      • orthodoxchurch_sg
        ... wrote: So where are these prohibitions? ... 1998 by ... Evlogeite! How many times do we have to go over this? The Anathema against the
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 8, 2003
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          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael nikitin
          <nikitinmike@y...> wrote:
          So where are these prohibitions?"
          >
          >
          > Anathema Against Ecumenism. Pronounced in 1983 and reaffirmed in
          1998 by
          > the Synod of Bishops of ROCA.
          >
          > Michael N.
          >
          >
          Evlogeite!
          How many times do we have to go over this? The Anathema against the
          Branch Theory of 1983 does not refer to, cover or anathematise the
          Serbian Church, the Jerusalem Patriarchate or any of the other
          historical Churches.
          God bless/ Fr Daniel
        • zina kochnaya
          What does Anathema of 1983 and 1998 anathematize? ... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 9, 2003
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            What does Anathema of 1983 and 1998 anathematize?

            --- orthodoxchurch_sg <orthodoxchurch_sg@...>
            wrote:
            > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, michael
            > nikitin
            > <nikitinmike@y...> wrote:
            > So where are these prohibitions?"
            > >
            > >
            > > Anathema Against Ecumenism. Pronounced in 1983 and
            > reaffirmed in
            > 1998 by
            > > the Synod of Bishops of ROCA.
            > >
            > > Michael N.
            > >
            > >
            > Evlogeite!
            > How many times do we have to go over this? The
            > Anathema against the
            > Branch Theory of 1983 does not refer to, cover or
            > anathematise the
            > Serbian Church, the Jerusalem Patriarchate or any of
            > the other
            > historical Churches.
            > God bless/ Fr Daniel
            >
            >


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          • orthodoxchurch_sg
            ... There are two possible answers ~ a) just reading it, it clearly refers to those who hold the Branch Theory , a perculiarly Anglican idea, and one which is
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 9, 2003
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              --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, zina kochnaya <zikonaya@y...>
              wrote:
              > What does Anathema of 1983 and 1998 anathematize?
              >
              There are two possible answers ~

              a) just reading it, it clearly refers to those who hold the 'Branch
              Theory', a perculiarly Anglican idea, and one which is certainly not
              held or taught by any of the Historical Orthodox Churches.

              b) the Anathema must be applied and interpreted according to the
              official teaching of the Synod of Bishops who issued it. Again, ROCOR
              clearly does not understand it to mean it has anathematised any of
              the Historical Orthodox Churches.

              But as I said, we have been round and round on this one.
              Paradoxically those who wish to see the Anathema to be wide-ranging
              (and apply it to almost everyone but themselves) tend to be those who
              have left the Synod of Bishops who gave the Anathema its authority ~
              HOCNA, ROCiE, ROAC. While denying ROCOR grace, they base their
              eccentric ecclesiology on an even more eccentric interpretation of a
              document issued by a Church they do not recognise!

              God bless / Fr Daniel
            • frvboldewskul@aol.com
              I understand that most lists discourage me to posts. However, it seems that Fr. Daniel nailed this one on the head. The way the Anathema is used (or rather
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 9, 2003
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                I understand that most lists discourage "me to" posts. However, it seems that
                Fr. Daniel nailed this one on the head. The way the Anathema is used (or
                rather abused) by some is similar to the due process clause of the 14th amendment
                (in the U.S. Constitution) where the Supreme Court created a "right of
                privacy" leading to the right for abortion. From outlawing slavery in the 19th
                century, Brennan created the right to abortion. The same with this. Thank you Fr.
                Daniel.

                In Christ,
                Priest Victor Boldewskul

                In a message dated 10/9/03 7:59:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
                orthodoxchurch_sg@... writes:

                > There are two possible answers ~
                >
                > a) just reading it, it clearly refers to those who hold the 'Branch
                > Theory', a perculiarly Anglican idea, and one which is certainly not
                > held or taught by any of the Historical Orthodox Churches.
                >
                > b) the Anathema must be applied and interpreted according to the
                > official teaching of the Synod of Bishops who issued it. Again, ROCOR
                > clearly does not understand it to mean it has anathematised any of
                > the Historical Orthodox Churches.
                >
                > But as I said, we have been round and round on this one.
                > Paradoxically those who wish to see the Anathema to be wide-ranging
                > (and apply it to almost everyone but themselves) tend to be those who
                > have left the Synod of Bishops who gave the Anathema its authority ~
                > HOCNA, ROCiE, ROAC. While denying ROCOR grace, they base their
                > eccentric ecclesiology on an even more eccentric interpretation of a
                > document issued by a Church they do not recognise!
                >
                > God bless / Fr Daniel
                >
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • zina kochnaya
                I don t think you know what you are talking about, Father. I don t understand you. Anathema is cutting off. So, it does not matter what church it is
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 11, 2003
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                  I don't think you know what you are talking about, Father.
                  I don't understand you. Anathema is cutting off. So,
                  it does not matter what church it is Episcopalian or Serbian.
                  Since they are in WCC, where they all pray together, then,
                  they are under ROCOR's anathema of 1983 and 1998.
                  But, since MP and OCA consider ROCOR schismatics,
                  then this Anathema does not mean anything to them.

                  That's what I learned from this list.
                  Zina
                  orthodoxchurch_sg <orthodoxchurch_sg@...> wrote:
                  --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, zina kochnaya <zikonaya@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > What does Anathema of 1983 and 1998 anathematize?
                  >
                  There are two possible answers ~

                  a) just reading it, it clearly refers to those who hold the 'Branch
                  Theory', a perculiarly Anglican idea, and one which is certainly not
                  held or taught by any of the Historical Orthodox Churches.

                  b) the Anathema must be applied and interpreted according to the
                  official teaching of the Synod of Bishops who issued it. Again, ROCOR
                  clearly does not understand it to mean it has anathematised any of
                  the Historical Orthodox Churches.

                  But as I said, we have been round and round on this one.
                  Paradoxically those who wish to see the Anathema to be wide-ranging
                  (and apply it to almost everyone but themselves) tend to be those who
                  have left the Synod of Bishops who gave the Anathema its authority ~
                  HOCNA, ROCiE, ROAC. While denying ROCOR grace, they base their
                  eccentric ecclesiology on an even more eccentric interpretation of a
                  document issued by a Church they do not recognise!

                  God bless / Fr Daniel


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                • michael nikitin
                  The WCC is an organization built upon the branch theory . ROCOR pronounced it in 1983 and reaffirmed it in 1998. If it doesn t fall on those in WCC who didn t
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 12, 2003
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                    The WCC is an organization built upon the "branch theory".
                    ROCOR pronounced it in 1983 and
                    reaffirmed it in 1998. If it doesn't fall on those in WCC who didn't
                    proclaim it then it most
                    certainly falls on those who proclaimed it, but transgress it.


                    Anathema Against Ecumenism:
                    "Those who attack the Church of Christ by teaching that Christ's Church
                    is
                    divided into so-called "branches" which differ in doctrine and way of
                    life,
                    or that the Church does not exist visibly, but will be formed in the
                    future
                    when all "branches" or sects or denominations, and even religions will
                    be
                    united into one body; and who do not distinguish the priesthood and
                    mysteries of the Church from those of the heretics, but say that the
                    baptism
                    and eucharist of heretics is effectual for salvation; therefore, to
                    those
                    who knowingly have communion with these aforementioned heretics or who
                    advocate, disseminate, or defend their new heresy of Ecumenism under
                    the
                    pretext of brotherly love or the supposed unification of separated
                    Christians, Anathema!"

                    Michael N.

                    orthodoxchurch_sg <orthodoxchurch_sg@...> wrote:
                    --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, zina kochnaya <zikonaya@y...>
                    wrote:
                    > What does Anathema of 1983 and 1998 anathematize?
                    >
                    There are two possible answers ~

                    a) just reading it, it clearly refers to those who hold the 'Branch
                    Theory', a perculiarly Anglican idea, and one which is certainly not
                    held or taught by any of the Historical Orthodox Churches.

                    b) the Anathema must be applied and interpreted according to the
                    official teaching of the Synod of Bishops who issued it. Again, ROCOR
                    clearly does not understand it to mean it has anathematised any of
                    the Historical Orthodox Churches.

                    But as I said, we have been round and round on this one.
                    Paradoxically those who wish to see the Anathema to be wide-ranging
                    (and apply it to almost everyone but themselves) tend to be those who
                    have left the Synod of Bishops who gave the Anathema its authority ~
                    HOCNA, ROCiE, ROAC. While denying ROCOR grace, they base their
                    eccentric ecclesiology on an even more eccentric interpretation of a
                    document issued by a Church they do not recognise!

                    God bless / Fr Daniel


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