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More about the Putin meeting with ROCA Bishops

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  • byakimov@csc.com.au
    http://www.radonezh.ru/new/?ID=708 http://www.gzt.ru/rubricator.gzt?rubric=novosti&id=37050000000008351 Dear All It seems different interpretations of the
    Message 1 of 3 , Sep 30, 2003
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      http://www.radonezh.ru/new/?ID=708

      http://www.gzt.ru/rubricator.gzt?rubric=novosti&id=37050000000008351

      Dear All

      It seems different interpretations of the meeting have been widely reported
      in the Russian
      media but sadly almost nothing about sergianism, ecumenism (the latest
      event in Astan, Kazahkstan), modernism - the singing of various agreements
      between the post soviet MP & mono(churches). In the MP certain bishops
      have now moved from the soviet interpretation that metr. Sergius "saved the
      Church" & are formulating the latest version that metr, Sergius is a holy
      hero in the image of St Alexander Nevsky. Soon, just after ROCA is
      corralled in to the MP proper, metr.
      Sergius & other soviet heroes such as metr. Nikodim will be canonised. No
      wonder we in ROCA have forgotten such great hierarchs as blessed in memory
      metr. Philaret, archb. Averky & many others.... It seems ROCA has
      developed the disease of selective memory.... Indeed we live in sorrowful
      times & why the RUSH.. all will be swept under the carpet but TRUTH
      cannot suffer because of deceit, ignorance or betrayal.....perpetuated by
      men of all ranks. TRUTH will prevail but our Lord Jesus Christ have mercy
      on our souls.

      protodeacon Basil from Canberra
    • frvboldewskul@aol.com
      In a message dated 9/30/03 10:10:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ... This is nonsense. Should any union occur between the two parts of the Russian Church, it
      Message 2 of 3 , Oct 1, 2003
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        In a message dated 9/30/03 10:10:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
        byakimov@... writes:

        > . Soon, just after ROCA is
        > corralled in to the MP proper, metr.
        > Sergius &other soviet heroes such as metr. Nikodim will be canonised.

        This is nonsense. Should any union occur between the two parts of the Russian
        Church, it would be a complete repudiation of Metropolitan Nikodim and his
        school.

        Priest Victor Boldewskul


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • byakimov@csc.com.au
        Dear All Give ear to my prayer, O God, And do not hide Yourself from my supplication. Attend to me, and hear me; I am restless in my complaint, and moan
        Message 3 of 3 , Oct 2, 2003
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          Dear All


          "Give ear to my prayer, O God, And do not hide Yourself from my
          supplication. Attend to me, and hear me; I am restless in my complaint, and
          moan noisily." Psalm 55:1,2
          "....All is possible for Thee, o Lord! There is no misfortune, no sorrow
          from which Thou cannot deliver us. There is no evil which Thou cannot
          overcome for the salvation of our souls..." A PRAYER TO THE ALMIGHTY GOD.

          It seems I am not alone in my sorrow & concern about the RUSH of our ROCA
          to be corralled by the sergianist & ecumenist MP in to their fenced in
          influence & subordination. The KGB sure rules RUSSIA through PUTIN & the
          MP is still governed by KGB collaborant colleagues in cassocks.

          I thank all the Fathers,brothers & others that have written to me on this
          issue & would like to quote, inter alia, one of these responses in the hope
          that we all become more concerned about this forcefully driven unification
          of 2 parts of the Russian Orthodox Church,& I repeat again, prematurely.
          The time is not right but the MP will be happy to silence the voice of the
          "Sorrowful Epistles" & the Royal (narrow) Path will be available to many
          more of our brothers & sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ & His Holy Orthodox
          Church. Many in the MP, including Bishops, believe that the time for such
          unification will be right only, when those in power make an unequivocal
          condemnation of sergianism in all its historical & present day forms &
          (without giving the most recent excuse) that globalisation (or terrorism)
          is forcing them to continue (recently increased) participation in all
          ecumenist forums because they do not want to be "isolated" & to leave all
          of these forums.

          ".......I wanted to comment on your recent postings. I too am concerned
          about the
          rush to some sort of accomodation with the MP. I have a feeling that the
          MP (along with the Russian government) has become more concerned about the
          Russian diaspora. Many of the new immigrants in the US and Australia end
          up in ROCOR parishes. Diasporas can be very important in international
          politics as the Jewish and Greek diasporas in the US show. Not long ago
          the MP proposed sending a MP bishop from Russia to be in charge of the
          Russian OCA parishes. I think the idea that we could unite with the MP
          and continue to have an independent existence is a chimera. And what
          about our long-standing position on ecumenism? Do we really expect the MP
          to withdraw from the ecumenical movement just because ROCOR wants them to?

          I would be interested in knowing about the situation in Australia. Is
          there a lot of enthusiasm there for this proposed union? My impression is
          that ROCOR in Australia is more conservative than it is here in the
          US......

          ......I am really astonished at Bp Kyrill of San Francisco; just a
          couple of years ago he was swearing that he would never go over to the MP;
          he has made a complete about-face. I have a strong feeling that the
          impetus for this reunion is coming from the Russian government; otherwise
          it is hard to understand why the first step was taken by President Putin.
          We seem to have forgotten that Putin was a KGB agent and that the leaders
          of the MP came into power under the Soviets.......I appreciate your
          postings to the ,,,list.....".

          The first step was also taken by Putin because Archbishop Mark at their
          first meeting
          in Germany asked him to intervene but why ask a KGB agent?

          To quote another concerned soul from the Synod List "....This is also why
          'reunion' of ROCOR and the MP should be VERY SLOW. While the MP may be
          'free' of the 'Atheist' government, etc. It is not free of sergianism,
          innovation, and especially and worst of all the 'Panheresy' of Ecumenism.
          (On the contrary,it is becoming more and
          more involved in it!!!)...."

          It seems ROCA is ready to capitulate to the MP & by doing so betray the
          sorrowful
          & glorious Royal Path that our blessed in memory metropolitans Anthony,
          Anastassy, Philaret, Archbishop Averky & so many others rigorously adhered
          & nurtured - so as the whole of our people in Russia & Abroad would in the
          fullness of our Lord's time partake as brothers & sisters in our living
          Lord Jesus Christ & his Holy Russian Orthodox Church. This is what the last
          soviet patriarch, not so long ago, said about ROCA's Royal path.

          "The patriarch called ROCOR's demands a "pretext" to prevent
          unification,and defended the 1927 decision to recognize and cooperate with
          the Soviet
          state,saying it was a "courageous step."

          "One had to live here to understand that situation," he said. He also
          rejected the call to sever ecumenical contacts. "Today, when we face
          the threat of global terrorism, not a single church, including ROCOR, can
          go into isolation," the patriarch said.

          "The infamous Declaration of 1927 by Metropolitan Sergii (Starogorodsky),
          later to become known as the first "patriarch" of the official Soviet
          Orthodox Church (ROC)- a
          church that worked hand-in-hand with the communist regime in the
          destruction of thousands of churches and monasteries as well as the
          brutal torture and murder of millions of faithful, in other words - the
          annihilation of Orthodoxy........" "The MP, which calls itself the Mother
          Church,
          despite the fact that it was established by Stalin and is younger than
          the pre-revolutionary Church Abroad- the MP is not a church but an
          organization that has been used as a tool to combat religion by the
          atheist communist regime..." ..................

          "Sergianism

          Thirty years ago I was taught that the term "Sergianism" refers to a
          specific kind of behavior: betrayal--i.e., selling out for the sake of
          preserving the external organization of the Church (which is what Met.
          Sergius did in 1927). In other words, instead of letting Christ save His
          Church, we mortals think we can save the Church ourselves by making deals,
          compromising with the enemies of the Church, etc. Is this not still the
          meaning of "Sergianism"? What other possible meaning could there be?

          As for the term "Ecumenism": there's no better definition than that given
          by
          our bishops in the Anathema against Ecumenism. Why would we want a
          different definition than that given by our own hierarchs?

          ECUMENISM

          Not having time at this moment to look up the exact wording (but will
          gladly
          do so if someone else doesn't have it at hand), my recollection of the
          Anathema is quite clear in stating that "Ecumenism" is the heresy that
          teaches the equality of all churches,--that the Church of Christ is divided
          into separate but equal branches. (This, of course, is what the WCC
          believes
          and preaches, which is an important reason why we do not and cannot belong
          to it, and why other Orthodox Churches, such as the MP, should not do so
          either.) This teaching--that the Church is divided and all denominations
          together form the true Church--and those who espouse this error, is
          anathematized by our bishops. That's the only official definition of
          Ecumenism that I can remember having seen from the Bishops themselves (as
          opposed to commentaries by individual bishops such as Met. Vitaly, etc.)
          and
          it seems both clear and sufficient to me. Fr. Alexey ....."


          More on the meeting here: http://www.rusk.ru/st.php?idar=309852 (in
          Russian).

          In our Lord Jesus Christ,

          with much concern & love for our troubled ROCA

          protodeacon Basil from Canberra
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