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Re: [JerusalemPatriarchate] "A Plea for Peace" TCA

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  • vkozyreff
    Dear Vladimir, In your Message 8283, you write: « Your vision of the world is too simplistic, Vladimir. There are no good nations and bad nations. ALL
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 18, 2003
      Dear Vladimir,

      In your Message 8283, you write: « Your vision of the world is too
      simplistic, Vladimir. There are no "good" nations and "bad" nations.
      ALL nations have sinned, ALL have fallen short of the glory of God.
      And the "Orthodox" ones most of all, because they knew more.... »

      VK. I hope my vision is not too simplistic, because I never thought
      that there are good or bad nations. What I meant is that it would be
      simplistic to say: (Message 8272): "Since this war is not between
      Orthodox nations and does not directly affect any Orthodox nation, I
      don't see where the "Orthodox vision" comes into it."

      I mean that the US as an organisation is not neutral to orthodoxy.
      Its esence is anti-orthodox (see the founding fathers and the
      constitution). It is pursuing objectives that are incompatible with
      orthodoxy in alliance with clear enemies of Christ. Therefore, the
      American members of ROCOR should beware of certain types of
      solidarity with the US as an organisation, because of conflicts of
      interest with orthodoxy.

      In message 8281, you write: «I care about religious freedom, and I
      know many Orthodox people who do, too! Religious freedom is a gift
      from God which we despise at our peril.»

      VK: Of course, religious freedom is good to take. It is better not to
      be persecuted. One should however not forget that religious freedom
      as such is a gift from humanists who despise religion as
      manifestations of human needs of the same kind as as sexuality, that
      should be granted equally to all religions, the latter having to be
      confined to the private life of the citizens. This gives thus in
      principle equal right, opportunity and power to Christianity and to
      its worst enemies. I mean that orthodox do not particularily want
      that the religions would freely develop, except orthodoxy.

      You write also: « You can say what you like about the New World
      Order. It exists, I don't deny it. But not only or even mainly in
      America. What about Brussels where you live… »

      VK: Dear Vladimir, I know so well what we are talking about! I never
      assimilate myself to the EC philosophy. I am a Russian and an example
      of a failed assimilation within the society of my country of exile.

      I am not speaking of a competition between the US and the EC in that
      respect. Whatever the darkness of the one, it does not erase the
      darkness of the other.

      You write in Message 8285: « However, I fundamentally disagree with
      you that the struggle was not against communism. It was! Russia saved
      Europe from German barbarism in the First World War, but replaced
      German barbarism with an even worse one in the Second World War ».

      Here, you hurt me. Russia has given twenty million lives to the fight
      against Hitler and a quite a greater number to the Bolshevik yoke.
      The occupation of Russia by the Communists was the cruellest war ever
      suffered by Russia. Maybe she will never recover. She was the first
      victim of Bolshevik barbarism and the West never helped her to fight
      it.

      You write: « Only in that year, 1949, did the West wake up to the
      menace and founded NATO as a defensive alliance against the
      Antichrist ».

      I think that NATO Is part of the conspiracy. The New World Order has
      many names (see below).

      In God,

      Vladimir Kozyreff

      The New World Order:

      the Trilateral Commission (TC), founded in 1973 by David Rockefeller;

      the Iluminati, founded in 1776 by Adam Weishaupt, once a Jesuit
      Priest and later a Freemason;

      the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR) founded 1921 at the end of
      World War I, made up of past Presidents, Ambassadors, Secretaries of
      State, Wall Street Investors, International bankers, select Senators
      & Congressmen, Supreme Court Justices, Federal Judges and the
      selected wealthy;

      the United Nations;

      the Bilderbergers made up of rich and powerful people from Europe &
      America;

      the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation;

      the World Trade Organisation (WTO) only international organisation
      dealing with global rules of trade between nations;

      the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) established in 1979
      under then President Carter;

      the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)

      the National Security Agency (NSA);

      the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA);

      the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI);

      the Federal Communication System (FCC) the Agency that controls what
      you see and hear on TV & radio;

      the Federal Reserve System, founded in 1913 and privately owned by a
      group of elite member banks;

      the World Council of Churches (WCC);

      the Ecumenical Movement, Religion of the New Age Christ [Antichrist];

      the Internal Revenue Service (IRS);

      the Electoral College, enacted by delegates to the Constitutional
      Convention in Philadelphia in 1787;

      Skull and Bones of Yale;

      the Masonic Sacred Order;

      the Jesuit Order;

      the Vatican;

      Banking families, etc., etc.




      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, VladMoss@a... wrote:
      > In a message dated 16/04/03 14:00:50 GMT Daylight Time,
      > vladimir.kozyreff@s... writes:
      >
      >
      > >
      > > It is striking to see how differently American and Russian
      members of
      > > the ROCOR view and understand the recent events in the Middle
      East.
      > >
      > > Americans tend to react patriotically, in Masonic / protestant /
      > > democratic / New World order terms, from which their faith is
      totally
      > > absent. They express no orthodox vision, as though orthodoxy, in
      > > their minds, was forever constrained to their private life, and
      as
      > > though the totally unorthodox policy of the American hegemony did
      not
      > > disturb them in any way.
      > >
      >
      > Dear Vladimir,
      >
      > I like most of your postings very much, but this is phenomenally
      unjust.
      >
      > Since this war is not between Orthodox nations and does not
      directly affect
      > any Orthodox nation, I don't see where the "Orthodox vision" comes
      into it -
      > except in two, possibly three respects.
      >
      > 1. We are told to obey our government, and treat it as an authority
      from God,
      > unless it is specifically the Antichrist. America is not the
      Antichrist.
      > Therefore American citizens are following their Orthodox conscience
      by
      > obeying their government. If, on the contrary, they rebelled
      against their
      > government, they would be disobeying the apostolic command. I hope
      you are
      > not urging Americans to do that, for that would be a grave sin.
      >
      > 2. America has been for a long time, and is now, perhaps the major
      refuge of
      > True Orthodox Christianity in the world. The ROCOR fled to America
      after the
      > Second World War. Metropolitan Philaret and his Synod publicly
      supported the
      > Americans in the Vietnam war. It was from America that the ROCOR's
      mission to
      > Russia was launched in 1990. The Russian government, on the other
      hand,
      > persecutes True Orthodox Christians - not as severely or as openly
      as in
      > Soviet times, but still in a less overt manner. From a moral point
      of view,
      > therefore, the American government, though not Orthodox, is
      superior to the
      > Russian government in this respect at least. We should not attempt
      to
      > undermine such a government unless it seeks to undermine another
      Orthodox
      > government. I am sure you do not believe that Saddam Hussein's
      government was
      > Orthodox.
      >
      > 3. The American government has been fighting the main enemy of
      Orthodoxy,
      > communism, for many decades. That war is not yet over. In fact, I
      would say
      > that Saddam Hussein's Iraq was an "Islamic" variant on the Soviet
      pattern; it
      > was a kind of communist anti-government. From this point of view,
      the
      > American government's attempts to destroy should not be opposed,
      but should
      > be supported.
      >
      > Vladimir Moss
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • goossir
      Dear Vladimir, I have been following your debate with V. Kozyreff with much interest. Both of you made very good remarks. Regarding the European Commission, I
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 18, 2003
        Dear Vladimir,

        I have been following your debate with V. Kozyreff with much
        interest. Both of you made very good remarks.

        Regarding the European Commission, I would like to add some comments.
        I agree with you that it looks sometimes like a totalitarian system.
        I work there and often I call the EEC officials, the "European
        nomenklatura".

        At the beginning, the EEC was created with the idea to avoid
        nationalistic wars in Europe, by creating a free trade market between
        countries - this was the so-called "good Cause" which is always used
        as a pretext in the fight against tradition, identity and national
        sovereignty.

        Whose idea was it? Well, there are good reasons to say that it comes
        from the US "think-tankers". The idealogist of the EEC, Jean Monnet,
        was trained in the US in the Bank of America) and he inspired Robert
        Schuman (the founder of the EEC). I do not know for Schuman but
        Monnet was certainly a Mason, linked to the US Council for Foreign
        Relations.

        Let me ask you some questions:
        Who is now imposing the entry of Turkey in the EEC? The US. And for
        what reason? - You are clever enough to guess.
        Why did the US support Muslim Albania against Serbia?
        Why did the US banks finance the Japanese during the Russian-Japanese
        war?
        Why did US banks finance the Bolsheviks before and during the
        revolution and in the civil war?
        Why did the US support strongly (in this they were hand in hands with
        the communists) the de-colonisation? Look at the results!
        Why was Eleonor Roosevelt so sympathetic to Stalin?
        Who destroyed the economy of South America's countries (Argentina,
        Venezuela, etc.)
        And I can go on and on.

        I used to be a very strong supporter of US in my youth. I spent some
        time in that country and made very good friends there. I liked the
        American hospitality, genuineness, and simplicity. (My mother was
        even comparing the childlike, open and generous American mentality
        with the Russian one. The neighbour is always welcome and considered
        as a potential friend as both populations are confronted with vast
        living spaces and horizons, contrary to the Europeans whose living
        space is narrower thus their often-unwelcome and restricted attitude
        towards newcomers.) Like you, I thought that they were great
        warriors against communism (I was all for the Vietnam war). It is
        true that religiosity is much stronger in the US than in Europe.
        (But what has religiosity to do with the True Body of Christ?).

        I am absolutely not criticising the American people - a lot of them
        are very good and very generous. It is the US politics that are
        completely corrupted, immoral and cynical. They want power, at any
        cost - and that is all. If you read and follow closely their policy,
        you will see that everything was done to weaken any other nation that
        becomes strong. They want a stability that is governed by them -
        the "Pax Americana" which is the New World Order. They helped to
        dismantle great empires to create nations. They now reject strong
        nations by pushing them in creating an artificial conglomerate, in
        which everything is done to prevent it from becoming strong (CEE,
        NAFTA, ..). When nations resist, they instil ethnic wars
        (Yugoslavia, Congo, and now probably in Irak).

        I do support VK when he says that the US did not fight against
        communism, but rather against the power of the USSR. The cold war
        was just rivalry between two superpowers. It was just by coincidence
        that their fight corresponded to ours.

        If the US were really against anti-Christ, they certainly would not
        have financed the revolution or associated with Stalin during WWII.
        The big question is: Who is behind the US policy which is so opposed
        to the American mentality?

        Just to illustrate this question, here are a few quotes:

        "We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time
        Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended
        our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost
        forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan
        for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of
        publicity during those years. But, the work is now much more
        sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The
        supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers
        is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in
        past centuries." David Rockefeller, founder of the Trilateral
        Commission, in an address to a meeting of The Trilateral Commission,
        in June, 1991.

        "In the next century, nations as we know it will be obsolete; all
        states will recognize a single, global authority. National
        sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all." Strobe Talbot,
        Clinton's Deputy Secretary of State, as quoted in Time, July 20th,
        l992.

        "The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-
        world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the
        same tent, all under their control.... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I
        do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope,
        generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent."
        Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976, killed in the Korean Airlines
        747 that was shot down by the Soviets
        (More on this website: http://www.angelfire.com/ak4/neurope/nwo.html)

        Your sister in Christ
        Irina Pahlen

        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, VladMoss@a... wrote:
        > In a message dated 17/04/03 12:40:51 GMT Daylight Time,
        > vladimir.kozyreff@s... writes:
        >
        >
        > > As soon as the Russian State was born, it gave its first martyrs,
        the
        > > saints Boris and Gleb who preferred to die than to exert any
        violence
        > > even in self-defence. Alexander Nevsky said " God is in the
        truth,
        > > not in power". The founder of the Russian State is our holy
        patron
        > > the great prince Vladimir equal-to-the-apostles, who baptised
        Russia.
        > > The founders of the US are deistic freemasons.
        > >
        > >
        >
        > True, except that Russia of course went through a pagan phase, like
        every
        > country, before she was baptised, and now she has returned to
        paganism. For
        > no more than 1% of the population visits even the churches of the
        MP, and
        > those who do are infected with all kinds of false beliefs and
        superstitions,
        > as a recent survey by the Russian Academy of Sciences has shown. As
        for the
        > USA, as an independent state she was indeed founded by deistic
        freemasons.
        > But before that she was a part of Great Britain, which for 1000
        years (from
        > the apostles to 1066) was an Orthodox nation with an Orthodox
        symphony of
        > powers which perished only after a savage war against the papists
        that
        > destroyed 20% of its population. So even the Americans can trace
        some
        > Orthodox roots. And they can return to those roots. Just as the
        Russians can
        > return to their roots. And just as the Jews can return to their
        Orthodox
        > roots - which, as you remember, is precisely what St. Paul said
        would happen
        > before the end.
        >
        > Your vision of the world is too simplistic, Vladimir. There are
        no "good"
        > nations and "bad" nations. ALL nations have sinned, ALL have fallen
        short of
        > the glory of God. And the "Orthodox" ones most of all, because they
        knew
        > more....
        >
        > Vladimir, I make so bold as to say that I love Russia as much as
        you do. I
        > converted to Russian Orthodoxy from Protestantism nearly 30 years
        ago, and
        > have served as a reader in the Church for most of that period. I
        have a
        > Russian wife, and a house in Russia. I have committed my life to
        Russia and
        > the resurrection of Russia, a hope in which I firmly believe. But I
        am not
        > going to allow my love for Russia lead me to despise other nations
        and the
        > good things they have given to the Orthodox. Nor am I going to
        confuse the
        > true Russia with the false, anti-God Russia which has been the main
        enemy of
        > Orthodoxy for nearly 100 years.
        >
        > You can say what you like about the New World Order. It exists, I
        don't deny
        > it. But not only or even mainly in America. What about Brussels
        where you
        > live - is it not the centre of a potentially terrible new
        totalitarian state
        > which has all the vices of America but few of her virtues (I use
        the word
        > "virtue" in a relative sense, of course)? I can tell you one thing
        for
        > certain: the present progress of the new world order in my country,
        England,
        > owes more to the European Commission and its antichristian
        legislation than
        > to any number of masonic American presidents!
        >
        > Vladimir Moss
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kiril Bart
        Dear in Christ Vladimir, as much as I appreciated your views on contemporary Orthodoxy, I m dismayed by your lack of spiritual wisdom. It s causing a great
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 18, 2003
          Dear in Christ Vladimir, as much as I appreciated your views on contemporary Orthodoxy, I'm dismayed by your lack of spiritual wisdom. It's causing a great deal of pain to see how Orthodox people got themselves into the absolutelly meanless and spiritually unprofitable war with the windmills.Our fight is fight against the spirits of the darkness, not for a world wide dominanse of the Orthodoxy. This world is a falling world and there is no point to waste time and spititual energy to build world wide Orthodox Empire, save yourself and thousands would be saved around you.Yours in Christ, subdeacon Kirill

          vkozyreff <vladimir.kozyreff@...> wrote:Dear Vladimir,

          In your Message 8283, you write: � Your vision of the world is too
          simplistic, Vladimir. There are no "good" nations and "bad" nations.
          ALL nations have sinned, ALL have fallen short of the glory of God.
          And the "Orthodox" ones most of all, because they knew more.... �

          VK. I hope my vision is not too simplistic, because I never thought
          that there are good or bad nations. What I meant is that it would be
          simplistic to say: (Message 8272): "Since this war is not between
          Orthodox nations and does not directly affect any Orthodox nation, I
          don't see where the "Orthodox vision" comes into it."

          I mean that the US as an organisation is not neutral to orthodoxy.
          Its esence is anti-orthodox (see the founding fathers and the
          constitution). It is pursuing objectives that are incompatible with
          orthodoxy in alliance with clear enemies of Christ. Therefore, the
          American members of ROCOR should beware of certain types of
          solidarity with the US as an organisation, because of conflicts of
          interest with orthodoxy.

          In message 8281, you write: �I care about religious freedom, and I
          know many Orthodox people who do, too! Religious freedom is a gift
          from God which we despise at our peril.�

          VK: Of course, religious freedom is good to take. It is better not to
          be persecuted. One should however not forget that religious freedom
          as such is a gift from humanists who despise religion as
          manifestations of human needs of the same kind as as sexuality, that
          should be granted equally to all religions, the latter having to be
          confined to the private life of the citizens. This gives thus in
          principle equal right, opportunity and power to Christianity and to
          its worst enemies. I mean that orthodox do not particularily want
          that the religions would freely develop, except orthodoxy.

          You write also: � You can say what you like about the New World
          Order. It exists, I don't deny it. But not only or even mainly in
          America. What about Brussels where you live� �

          VK: Dear Vladimir, I know so well what we are talking about! I never
          assimilate myself to the EC philosophy. I am a Russian and an example
          of a failed assimilation within the society of my country of exile.

          I am not speaking of a competition between the US and the EC in that
          respect. Whatever the darkness of the one, it does not erase the
          darkness of the other.

          You write in Message 8285: � However, I fundamentally disagree with
          you that the struggle was not against communism. It was! Russia saved
          Europe from German barbarism in the First World War, but replaced
          German barbarism with an even worse one in the Second World War �.

          Here, you hurt me. Russia has given twenty million lives to the fight
          against Hitler and a quite a greater number to the Bolshevik yoke.
          The occupation of Russia by the Communists was the cruellest war ever
          suffered by Russia. Maybe she will never recover. She was the first
          victim of Bolshevik barbarism and the West never helped her to fight
          it.

          You write: � Only in that year, 1949, did the West wake up to the
          menace and founded NATO as a defensive alliance against the
          Antichrist �.

          I think that NATO Is part of the conspiracy. The New World Order has
          many names (see below).

          In God,

          Vladimir Kozyreff

          The New World Order:

          the Trilateral Commission (TC), founded in 1973 by David Rockefeller;

          the Iluminati, founded in 1776 by Adam Weishaupt, once a Jesuit
          Priest and later a Freemason;

          the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR) founded 1921 at the end of
          World War I, made up of past Presidents, Ambassadors, Secretaries of
          State, Wall Street Investors, International bankers, select Senators
          & Congressmen, Supreme Court Justices, Federal Judges and the
          selected wealthy;

          the United Nations;

          the Bilderbergers made up of rich and powerful people from Europe &
          America;

          the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation;

          the World Trade Organisation (WTO) only international organisation
          dealing with global rules of trade between nations;

          the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) established in 1979
          under then President Carter;

          the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)

          the National Security Agency (NSA);

          the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA);

          the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI);

          the Federal Communication System (FCC) the Agency that controls what
          you see and hear on TV & radio;

          the Federal Reserve System, founded in 1913 and privately owned by a
          group of elite member banks;

          the World Council of Churches (WCC);

          the Ecumenical Movement, Religion of the New Age Christ [Antichrist];

          the Internal Revenue Service (IRS);

          the Electoral College, enacted by delegates to the Constitutional
          Convention in Philadelphia in 1787;

          Skull and Bones of Yale;

          the Masonic Sacred Order;

          the Jesuit Order;

          the Vatican;

          Banking families, etc., etc.




          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, VladMoss@a... wrote:
          > In a message dated 16/04/03 14:00:50 GMT Daylight Time,
          > vladimir.kozyreff@s... writes:
          >
          >
          > >
          > > It is striking to see how differently American and Russian
          members of
          > > the ROCOR view and understand the recent events in the Middle
          East.
          > >
          > > Americans tend to react patriotically, in Masonic / protestant /
          > > democratic / New World order terms, from which their faith is
          totally
          > > absent. They express no orthodox vision, as though orthodoxy, in
          > > their minds, was forever constrained to their private life, and
          as
          > > though the totally unorthodox policy of the American hegemony did
          not
          > > disturb them in any way.
          > >
          >
          > Dear Vladimir,
          >
          > I like most of your postings very much, but this is phenomenally
          unjust.
          >
          > Since this war is not between Orthodox nations and does not
          directly affect
          > any Orthodox nation, I don't see where the "Orthodox vision" comes
          into it -
          > except in two, possibly three respects.
          >
          > 1. We are told to obey our government, and treat it as an authority
          from God,
          > unless it is specifically the Antichrist. America is not the
          Antichrist.
          > Therefore American citizens are following their Orthodox conscience
          by
          > obeying their government. If, on the contrary, they rebelled
          against their
          > government, they would be disobeying the apostolic command. I hope
          you are
          > not urging Americans to do that, for that would be a grave sin.
          >
          > 2. America has been for a long time, and is now, perhaps the major
          refuge of
          > True Orthodox Christianity in the world. The ROCOR fled to America
          after the
          > Second World War. Metropolitan Philaret and his Synod publicly
          supported the
          > Americans in the Vietnam war. It was from America that the ROCOR's
          mission to
          > Russia was launched in 1990. The Russian government, on the other
          hand,
          > persecutes True Orthodox Christians - not as severely or as openly
          as in
          > Soviet times, but still in a less overt manner. From a moral point
          of view,
          > therefore, the American government, though not Orthodox, is
          superior to the
          > Russian government in this respect at least. We should not attempt
          to
          > undermine such a government unless it seeks to undermine another
          Orthodox
          > government. I am sure you do not believe that Saddam Hussein's
          government was
          > Orthodox.
          >
          > 3. The American government has been fighting the main enemy of
          Orthodoxy,
          > communism, for many decades. That war is not yet over. In fact, I
          would say
          > that Saddam Hussein's Iraq was an "Islamic" variant on the Soviet
          pattern; it
          > was a kind of communist anti-government. From this point of view,
          the
          > American government's attempts to destroy should not be opposed,
          but should
          > be supported.
          >
          > Vladimir Moss
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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        • Theodora Wright
          snip . This world is a falling world and there is no point to waste time and spititual energy to build world wide Orthodox Empire, save yourself and thousands
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 18, 2003
            snip

            . This world is a falling world and there is no point to waste time and
            spititual energy to build world wide Orthodox Empire, save yourself and
            thousands would be saved around you.Yours in Christ, subdeacon Kirill

            snip

            And Christ our Lord said: "Go ye into all the world...." can you complete
            the rest?

            A blessed Holy Week to all

            Theodora in the mountains
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