Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Met.Anastassy's Last Will and Testament of 1957

Expand Messages
  • Michael Nikitin
    Fr.Stefan believes Fr.Alexander over St.Metr.Philaret who s relics were found to be incorrupt? Metropolitan Philaret writes : « However, one thing is
    Message 1 of 39 , Mar 1, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Fr.Stefan believes Fr.Alexander over St.Metr.Philaret who's relics were
      found to be incorrupt?


      Metropolitan Philaret writes :

      � However, one thing is incomprehensible to the Catacomb
      Christians: they can't understand why our Church, which realizes
      beyond a doubt that the Soviet hierarchy has betrayed Christ and is
      no longer a bearer of grace, nevertheless receives clergy of the
      Soviet church in their existing orders, not re-ordaining them, as
      ones already having grace. For the clergy and flock receive grace
      from the hierarchy, and if it [the hierarchy] has betrayed the Truth
      and deprived itself of grace, from where then does the clergy have
      grace? It is along these lines that the Catacomb Christians pose the
      question.

      The answer to this is simple. The Church has the authority in certain
      cases to employ the principle of economia condescension. The hierarch
      Saint Basil the Great said that, in order not to drive many away from
      the Church, it is necessary sometimes to permit condescension and not
      apply the church canons in all their severity. When our Church
      accepted Roman Catholic clergy in their orders, without ordaining
      them, she acted according to this principle. And Metropolitan Anthony
      [Khrapovitsky], elucidating this issue, pointed out that the outward
      form successive ordination from Apostolic times that the Roman
      Catholics do have; whereas the grace, which the Roman Catholic church
      has lost, is received by those uniting [themselves to the Church]
      from the plenitude of grace present in the Orthodox Church, at the
      very moment of their joining. The form is filled with content, said
      Vladyka Anthony.

      In precisely the same manner, in receiving the Soviet clergy, we
      apply the principle of economia. And we receive the clergymen from
      Moscow not as ones possessing grace, but as ones receiving it by the
      very act of union. But to recognize the church of the evil-doers as
      the bearer and repository of grace, that we cannot do, of course. For
      outside of Orthodoxy there is no grace; and the Soviet church has
      deprived itself of grace �.


      "...they can't understand why ***our Church***, which realizes
      beyond a doubt that the Soviet hierarchy has betrayed Christ and is
      no longer a bearer of grace,..."

      Guess who I'm going to believe?

      Michael N.

      p.s. Could Fr.Stefan show us where St.John Maximovitch said the MP had
      Grace? We see from above St.Metr.Philaret did say the MP no longer had
      grace. That is a strong statement from our previous First Hierarch and
      is relative to the times they were stated(i.e. Ecumenism ,praying with
      heretics, Sergianism, etc....).


      From: "stefanvpavlenko <StefanVPavlenko@...>"
      <StefanVPavlenko@...>
      Reply-To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
      To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Met.Anastassy's Last Will and Testament of
      1957
      Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 08:55:01 -0000

      Ever Memorable Metropolitan Philaret once took some of the Western
      American Diocese clergy aside during one of his visits to San
      Francisco and explained to us that his >>personal opinion<< on
      certain Church matters did not coincide with that of our ruling
      Bishop (at that time Archbishop Anthony of San Francisco).

      As Father Alexander L. and Father John S. have repeatedly stated,
      Metropolitan Philaret left most of the Synodal paperwork to others,
      most of the time to Protopresbyter George/Bishop Gregory Grabbe.

      The OFFICIAL POSITION and teaching of the Church Abroad on all
      matters, including the status of the MOSCOW PATRIARCHATE, also have
      been abundantly revealed by Archpriest Alexander Lebedeff through
      direct and complete quotes of OFFICIAL PROCLAMATIONS AND EPISTLES of
      the CHURCH ABROAD. None of these documents has ever proclaimed the
      Moscow Patriarchate as GRACELESS!

      We should note that Saint John of Shanghai and San Francisco, whose
      holy relics lie incorrupt in the Cathedral of the Holy Virgin in the
      city of San Francisco, and whose opinion on the question of Grace in
      the Moscow Patriarchate is a matter of published record, in fact had
      the same exact opinion as the OFFICIALLY DECLARED position of the
      Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (Abroad).

      Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko



      _________________________________________________________________
      The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
      http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
    • Fr. John R. Shaw
      Vladimir Moss wrote: I have faith - that is, ... resurrection ... all the ... JRS: Did it ever occur to you that what you are yearning for is quite contrary
      Message 39 of 39 , Mar 8, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        Vladimir Moss wrote:

        I have faith - that is,
        > certain belief - in the prophecies of the saints concerning the
        resurrection
        > of Holy Russia through a True Orthodox Tsar who will overthrow almost
        all the
        > hierarchs of the official church. You do not have this faith.

        JRS: Did it ever occur to you that what you are yearning for is quite
        contrary to the Canons?

        However, we ought not to be as concerned about the future, as about the
        present. Who can say how long any of us might live?

        Somewhere C. S. Lewis wrote that the communists lived for the future,
        and justified everything they did by the utopia that was to come. But
        while their expected utopia never came, what was real was all the
        destruction and murder they committed trying to achieve it.

        It is quite possible to live for a "future Tsardom" that we may never
        see. But all of the discord, the schisms, the confusion of the faithful
        supposedly justified by that future reign of justice on earth, is real
        enough.

        In Christ
        Fr. John R. Shaw
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.