Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Councils as the determining factor

Expand Messages
  • Michael Nikitin
    There have been only remarks in private letters that were neither official, nor ever meant for anyone but the addressee (but which have been mysteriously
    Message 1 of 2 , Feb 21 10:26 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      "There have been only remarks in private letters that were neither
      official, nor ever meant for anyone but the addressee (but which have
      been mysteriously obtained and published by third parties, or by one
      third party)."


      These letters were sent mostly to clergy. They consisted of what the
      ecclesiology of ROCOR was and were written with this in mind.

      Many of these letters were admonishments. So the clergy wouldn't forget what
      was expected of them to keep the faith pure and save souls.

      These were not private opinions, but the written spirit of the Holy Fathers.
      His letters were his *official* statements. He never contradicted the Holy
      Fathers. Any one of those recipients could/did show them to others.

      St.Metr.Philaret would not write something that was not in agreement with
      the Holy fathers


      Michael N.


      From: "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@...>
      Reply-To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
      To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Councils as the determining factor
      Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:05:58 -0500


      Timothy Fisher wrote:

      > To answer Fr. Lebedev's question... it is interesting how this
      epistle is
      > being construed by the apologists for the enslaved MP...

      JRS: What "apologists for the enslaved MP"--? I don't know of one
      person who has written in support of the *enslaved* MP, that is, of the
      situation that existed under Soviet rule and of the positions taken by
      the central Church administration in Moscow, which is what was usually
      meant in those days by references to the Moscow Patriarchate.

      > First fact: it is
      > well known that the opinion of Metr. Philaret was that the MP was
      without
      > Grace.

      JRS: There has not been a single *official* statement by him brought
      forth, that says any such thing.

      There have been only remarks in private letters that were neither
      official, nor ever meant for anyone but the addressee (but which have
      been mysteriously obtained and published by third parties, or by one
      third party).

      > Perhaps he and others understood this epistle differently from the
      > pro-MP interpretation being read into it by the PC apologists and
      > revisionists....

      JRS: Perhaps? How can one derive a definite conclusion from a "perhaps"?

      > Namely, that IF the MP were a normal, genuine
      > Grace-transmitting Church ... then this denial of
      > Communion to minors would be "diabolical". However, what this
      indicates is
      > how diabolically enslaved the graceless MP is, since its lower clergy
      must
      > enforce this directive, its bishops do not oppose and denounce this
      > directive. The only excuse they have is the threat of coercion
      leading even
      > perhaps to martyrdom. Hence, if Grace is to be found there at all,
      it is in
      > spite of, not because of the clergy leadership. Which would be an
      > unprecedented situation, I believe, for the Church. Hence it
      required
      > unprecedented responses.

      JRS: If what you have suggested had been the view of our Church, then
      it would have been outright *misleading* for the bishops to have issued
      such statement in the first place!

      > Vl Gregory expressed to me and others when he was still protopresb.
      that
      > he personally did not want to make categorical statements about the
      state of
      > Grace of the MP.

      JRS: But you prefer to go beyond this, and make such statements
      yourself?

      In Christ
      Fr. John R. Shaw



      _________________________________________________________________
      Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
      http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.