[orthodox-synod] Re: In Christ's Church,Councils are the determining factor
- Fr. Stefan,
St. Metropolit Philaret, Bishop Averky, Bishop Gregory
Grabbe, Bishop Nikon would be scandalised by your post
if you wrote it during their time.
During Bishop Averky's time MP was a harlot for
serving with heretics, now, all of a sudden, MP has
grace. And that's when ROCOR anathemised ecumenism
in 1983 and again in 1998 in which MP is a member.
I guess , new Metropolitan, new ecclesiology and a
new tune - but why dance to it?
All of the bishops in MP presently are the same as
when communists ruled. MP is not the same church as
St. Patriarch Tikhon's. Patr. Sergei was Stalin's
choise and Stalin's organization.
Did you pay attention to the stichiras on New Martyrs
of Russia how St. Tikhon anathemised all communists
and those who work with them. We know from church
history that Patr. Serge informed to the authorities
on all who refused to commemorate him and they were
all murdered or sent to prison as contra
I am surprised by Fr. Stefan for dancing to the new
From: "stefanvpavlenko" <StefanVPavlenko@...>
Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: In Christ's Church,
Councils are the
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 23:33:05 -0000
Here or on another board, someone said that answers
were probably not
given to every statement or question put forward,
because no matter
what proof or what logical argument or what full or
partial quote is
referenced, those who don't wish to accept or
understand continue to
IGNORE the presented documentation!
Your presentation below is an example of why some of
us do not bother
Still I will attempt to explain.
The ROCA 1971 sobor resolution you quote >>in part<<
only that the Council which calls itself an
All-Russian Council, is
in fact NOT an "All Russian Council", and that there
fore, based on
quoted canon law, its resolutions and decrees are not
valid. It does
not in any way shape or form, claim that the Moscow
or is, without Grace. It also mentions the
Constantinople as a bad example a defence for their
action, and yet we all know that during the history of
dominion over the Patriarchate and the illegal
manipulation of that
Episcopal See, it >>never<< was considered with out
Grace by the
Russian Orthodox Church or any Orthodox body. Can you
One thing is the understanding that the Administration
of the Church
in Russia, the Moscow Patriarchate, under the
was corrupt and illegal and even uncannonical, and on
the other hand,
that the crippled Church remained a dispenser of the
Grace of Holy
Baptism, Chrysmation, Confession, Communion, Marriage,
Ordination, for the people who attended the persecuted
churches of that era.
Vladimir, take a deep breath, cross yourself, look at
the Icon of
Christ in the Holy corner of your room and pray God
gives you the
wisdom and enlightenment to understand the difference.
Administration. 2) Graceless, heretical church.
The Russian Orthodox Church Abroad has always
considered the Moscow
Patriarchate a corrupt and illegal >>administration<<;
it has never
stated in any form, that it was >>without Grace<<and
not an Orthodox
With sincere love for you,
Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
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- Serge Rust wrote:
> Now you tell us that Archbishop Afanassy also shared this position!JRS: All the ROCOR bishops still do reject ecumenism, as do, so far as
> All ROCOR bishops (In Christ's Church, Councils are the determining
> factor) shared the anti-ecumenist position, not just HTM.
I know, all the priests.
> Fr John, you did not answer my question: why was the anathema «aJRS: Because, although its contents are true and Orthodox, the *fact*
of this anathema has been used almost exclusively as a means of
Thus, for example, one could cite your own anti-ROCOR posts, based on
> Is this your personal or your official opinion?JRS: I am a parish priest -- not a bishop. So I don't really see where
one would draw the line between "personal" and "official" opinions.
> Does your bishop bless it?JRS: My view is based on what my bishop has told me.
> Are we going to be judged on our personal or on our officialJRS: Both.
Fr. John R. Shaw