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[orthodox-synod] Re: Vineta - a Germanic-Slavic myth...

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  • Robert Miller
    Doubtless it is prideful of me, doubtless. But I ve been taken in by scams of various kinds over the years, some of them of a religious or church nature, and
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 3, 1999
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      Doubtless it is prideful of me, doubtless. But I've
      been taken in by scams of various kinds over the years,
      some of them of a religious or church nature,
      and I have learned a strong dislike for such experiences.
      I don't like being taken for a sucker, to put it plainly,
      and I am particularly sensitive when someone sets up
      my religion as a 'mark,' or appears to.
      I should be humble and just let them pass.
      But should one not object when one suspects a scam?
      Blind, thoughtless acceptance is just very dangerous
      at times. That's credulosity (assuming there is such a
      word). Being wise as a serpent according to the Scripture's
      advice surely has a place here somewhere.

      JM

      ----------
      > From: Rev Mark Gilstrap <gilstrap@...>
      > To: rocaclergy@egroups.com; orthodox-synod@egroups.com
      > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Vineta - a Germanic-Slavic myth...
      > Date: Sunday, October 03, 1999 2:43 PM
      >
      > Perhaps this balancing article will assuage some of Joseph Miller's
      > concerns
      >
      > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
      > -----------------------
      > Sender: Orthodox Christianity <ORTHODOX@...>
      > Poster: Vladimir Hindrichs <Antiquariu@...>
      > Subject: Vineta - a Germanic-Slavic myth...
      > Sun, 3 Oct 1999 00:43:53 EDT
      >
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

      > ---
      >
      > Dear in-Christ list! A few days ago, historian Vladimir Moss posted a
      > article on Vineta, the sunken Baltic Sea city. Where on earth do we get
      the
      > idea that this was an Orthodox city? The way I read Adam von Bremen -
      and
      > for that matter the highly speculative GEO article of last year, it was a
      > pagan city that had a few Greek merchants, lots of Saxons, some Slavs, as
      > well as everything else under the sun there. It was also subjected to
      Viking
      > raids until the 12th century, and Virchow's speculation was that the city
      > itself had been sacked by these. The three favored locations are all
      located
      > between Barth and the Usedom in the northeastern tip of Germany. The
      last
      > altars to Perun and Radegast were pulled down on Ruegen as late as
      1645!!!
      > Besides, it would be a strange Orthodox culture that promoted the use of
      > bread products to wipe baby-butts.
      >
      > For the other cynics, it's also odd that all of the web hits one can find
      on
      > this tremendous discovery are right up there with saucer kidnappings and
      crop
      > circles.
      >
      > FYI, there are significant archeological traces of a Slavic sunken city
      in
      > the above-described area - circa 8th century. These were found by the
      German
      > Rudolf Virchow in the 19th century. It would indeed be significant to
      > identify a major Slavic "Orthodox" city two centuries before Cyril and
      > Methodius.
      >
      > Hmmm, and in Christ,
      >
      > Vova
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
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      >
    • LJames6034@aol.com
      When, recently, I spoke of the last Orthodox king of England to my favorite Greek, he facetiously answered: Oh, was there a Greek or Russian king of
      Message 2 of 3 , Oct 3, 1999
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        When, recently, I spoke of the last Orthodox king of England to my favorite
        Greek, he facetiously answered: "Oh, was there a Greek or Russian king of
        England?!"

        No. Harold was both the last Orthodox king of the English (whose daughter
        married Vladimir Monomakh, the Great Prince of Kiev), and the last native
        king of the English. All the rest have been like the last Tsars, largely
        German.

        That's a hard sell, but it is the truth.

        As for the bread detail, it may be Gilbert and Sullivan have something to
        add. They might say: "It adds versimilitude to an otherwise bald and
        unconvincing tale."

        Nevertheless, it is fascinating. It may also even be true (in broad strokes,
        though, as I said earlier, the bread detail was likely intended as merely a
        rhetorical gesture).

        There's a wonderful book I confess I have never read, but the title is
        fascinating, too: "Lies My Teachers Taught Me."

        Remember how, during the Soviet Era, it was forbidden to believe the Russian
        state had been founded by Vikings. However forbidden, that is nevertheless
        the truth.

        The lie, however, is likely hidden in the medieval Russian Chronicle, when it
        said the people of Kiev wrote to Rurik and said: "We know about commerce,
        but we do not know government. O Noble Rurik, come and rule over us."

        The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, likewise lies when it says the Celtic people wrote
        to them and said: "O Noble Saxons, come and rule over us."

        Our word "history" comes frrom the French word "histoire," or "story."

        Napoleon was not entirely wrong, when he affirmed: "History is lies which
        have been agreed upon."

        The winners write history. Viking thugs become princes. It's a rule, if
        they are successful.

        Would you like to hear the one about the Chinese coming to the West Coast, in
        ships five times the size of those of Columbus?

        That happens to be true.


        Father Andrew
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