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[orthodox-synod] Re: Vineta - a Germanic-Slavic myth...

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  • Rev Mark Gilstrap
    Perhaps this balancing article will assuage some of Joseph Miller s concerns ... Sender: Orthodox Christianity Poster:
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 3, 1999
      Perhaps this balancing article will assuage some of Joseph Miller's
      concerns

      ---------------------- Information from the mail header
      -----------------------
      Sender: Orthodox Christianity <ORTHODOX@...>
      Poster: Vladimir Hindrichs <Antiquariu@...>
      Subject: Vineta - a Germanic-Slavic myth...
      Sun, 3 Oct 1999 00:43:53 EDT
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
      ---

      Dear in-Christ list! A few days ago, historian Vladimir Moss posted a
      article on Vineta, the sunken Baltic Sea city. Where on earth do we get the
      idea that this was an Orthodox city? The way I read Adam von Bremen - and
      for that matter the highly speculative GEO article of last year, it was a
      pagan city that had a few Greek merchants, lots of Saxons, some Slavs, as
      well as everything else under the sun there. It was also subjected to Viking
      raids until the 12th century, and Virchow's speculation was that the city
      itself had been sacked by these. The three favored locations are all located
      between Barth and the Usedom in the northeastern tip of Germany. The last
      altars to Perun and Radegast were pulled down on Ruegen as late as 1645!!!
      Besides, it would be a strange Orthodox culture that promoted the use of
      bread products to wipe baby-butts.

      For the other cynics, it's also odd that all of the web hits one can find on
      this tremendous discovery are right up there with saucer kidnappings and crop
      circles.

      FYI, there are significant archeological traces of a Slavic sunken city in
      the above-described area - circa 8th century. These were found by the German
      Rudolf Virchow in the 19th century. It would indeed be significant to
      identify a major Slavic "Orthodox" city two centuries before Cyril and
      Methodius.

      Hmmm, and in Christ,

      Vova
    • Robert Miller
      Doubtless it is prideful of me, doubtless. But I ve been taken in by scams of various kinds over the years, some of them of a religious or church nature, and
      Message 2 of 3 , Oct 3, 1999
        Doubtless it is prideful of me, doubtless. But I've
        been taken in by scams of various kinds over the years,
        some of them of a religious or church nature,
        and I have learned a strong dislike for such experiences.
        I don't like being taken for a sucker, to put it plainly,
        and I am particularly sensitive when someone sets up
        my religion as a 'mark,' or appears to.
        I should be humble and just let them pass.
        But should one not object when one suspects a scam?
        Blind, thoughtless acceptance is just very dangerous
        at times. That's credulosity (assuming there is such a
        word). Being wise as a serpent according to the Scripture's
        advice surely has a place here somewhere.

        JM

        ----------
        > From: Rev Mark Gilstrap <gilstrap@...>
        > To: rocaclergy@egroups.com; orthodox-synod@egroups.com
        > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Vineta - a Germanic-Slavic myth...
        > Date: Sunday, October 03, 1999 2:43 PM
        >
        > Perhaps this balancing article will assuage some of Joseph Miller's
        > concerns
        >
        > ---------------------- Information from the mail header
        > -----------------------
        > Sender: Orthodox Christianity <ORTHODOX@...>
        > Poster: Vladimir Hindrichs <Antiquariu@...>
        > Subject: Vineta - a Germanic-Slavic myth...
        > Sun, 3 Oct 1999 00:43:53 EDT
        >
        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

        > ---
        >
        > Dear in-Christ list! A few days ago, historian Vladimir Moss posted a
        > article on Vineta, the sunken Baltic Sea city. Where on earth do we get
        the
        > idea that this was an Orthodox city? The way I read Adam von Bremen -
        and
        > for that matter the highly speculative GEO article of last year, it was a
        > pagan city that had a few Greek merchants, lots of Saxons, some Slavs, as
        > well as everything else under the sun there. It was also subjected to
        Viking
        > raids until the 12th century, and Virchow's speculation was that the city
        > itself had been sacked by these. The three favored locations are all
        located
        > between Barth and the Usedom in the northeastern tip of Germany. The
        last
        > altars to Perun and Radegast were pulled down on Ruegen as late as
        1645!!!
        > Besides, it would be a strange Orthodox culture that promoted the use of
        > bread products to wipe baby-butts.
        >
        > For the other cynics, it's also odd that all of the web hits one can find
        on
        > this tremendous discovery are right up there with saucer kidnappings and
        crop
        > circles.
        >
        > FYI, there are significant archeological traces of a Slavic sunken city
        in
        > the above-described area - circa 8th century. These were found by the
        German
        > Rudolf Virchow in the 19th century. It would indeed be significant to
        > identify a major Slavic "Orthodox" city two centuries before Cyril and
        > Methodius.
        >
        > Hmmm, and in Christ,
        >
        > Vova
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        > eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
        > http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
        >
        >
        >
      • LJames6034@aol.com
        When, recently, I spoke of the last Orthodox king of England to my favorite Greek, he facetiously answered: Oh, was there a Greek or Russian king of
        Message 3 of 3 , Oct 3, 1999
          When, recently, I spoke of the last Orthodox king of England to my favorite
          Greek, he facetiously answered: "Oh, was there a Greek or Russian king of
          England?!"

          No. Harold was both the last Orthodox king of the English (whose daughter
          married Vladimir Monomakh, the Great Prince of Kiev), and the last native
          king of the English. All the rest have been like the last Tsars, largely
          German.

          That's a hard sell, but it is the truth.

          As for the bread detail, it may be Gilbert and Sullivan have something to
          add. They might say: "It adds versimilitude to an otherwise bald and
          unconvincing tale."

          Nevertheless, it is fascinating. It may also even be true (in broad strokes,
          though, as I said earlier, the bread detail was likely intended as merely a
          rhetorical gesture).

          There's a wonderful book I confess I have never read, but the title is
          fascinating, too: "Lies My Teachers Taught Me."

          Remember how, during the Soviet Era, it was forbidden to believe the Russian
          state had been founded by Vikings. However forbidden, that is nevertheless
          the truth.

          The lie, however, is likely hidden in the medieval Russian Chronicle, when it
          said the people of Kiev wrote to Rurik and said: "We know about commerce,
          but we do not know government. O Noble Rurik, come and rule over us."

          The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, likewise lies when it says the Celtic people wrote
          to them and said: "O Noble Saxons, come and rule over us."

          Our word "history" comes frrom the French word "histoire," or "story."

          Napoleon was not entirely wrong, when he affirmed: "History is lies which
          have been agreed upon."

          The winners write history. Viking thugs become princes. It's a rule, if
          they are successful.

          Would you like to hear the one about the Chinese coming to the West Coast, in
          ships five times the size of those of Columbus?

          That happens to be true.


          Father Andrew
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