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[orthodox-synod] A legendary legend.

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  • Robert Miller
    There are those who are wondering just what the entire provenance of the English newspaper story posted first by Vladimir Moss and then Fr Mark Gilstrap might
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 30, 1999
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      There are those who are wondering just what the
      entire provenance of the English newspaper story posted
      first by Vladimir Moss and then Fr Mark Gilstrap
      might be, regarding the 'lost city of Vineta.'
      Is the 'mouth of the Oder' River really in the
      North Sea? Did they really have that many
      bread rolls?

      So, the entire provenance of the story would include
      the motive for writing it, right? And the motive for
      posting it. Somehow it doesn't feel all that friendly.

      Credibility, incredibility, credulosity, and the worst
      of these is credulosity.

      Joseph Miller
    • LJames6034@aol.com
      Maybe, Joseph, But: That aside about bread might have been just another rhetorical gesture on the part of the writer. Remember all that speculation about
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 1, 1999
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        Maybe, Joseph,

        But: That aside about bread might have been just another rhetorical gesture
        on the part of the writer.

        Remember all that speculation about "Atlantis"? No less than Plato spoke of
        it. It may be there was such a place. It may be it was in the eastern
        Mediterranean, rather than beyond the "Pillars of Hercules."

        It may also be it never really existed.

        Why bother with it?

        It does no harm to think it might have been.

        If there had been no French Revolution I, myself, would not be. Little as I
        have cared for that all these years, it was necessary for me to come into
        existence. Had my father's mother's family not been driven here, my father
        and mother could never have met. Hence, I could not exist.

        Strange how such minor details (my existence) can come from events which
        were grand in scope and intention, isn't it? Yet the grandest of all hopes
        (Egalite, fraternite, etc.) came to nothing. The revolution ate its
        children. Only those of us whose families were driven out can look back and
        smile, just as some of our ancestors laughed on their way to the guillotine.


        Father Andrew
      • emrys`nz
        Dear Father James, Some of my own ancestors were from Vineta, and the bread rolls were actually used to stuff the holes in the dykes and not for babies
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 1, 1999
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          Dear Father James,

          Some of my own ancestors were from Vineta, and the bread rolls were actually
          used to stuff the holes in the dykes and not for babies' bottoms.

          Fr Ambrose

          -----Original Message-----
          From: LJames6034@... <LJames6034@...>
          To: orthodox-synod@egroups.com <orthodox-synod@egroups.com>
          Date: Saturday, 2 October 1999 00:53
          Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: A legendary legend.


          >Maybe, Joseph,
          >
          >But: That aside about bread might have been just another rhetorical
          gesture
          >on the part of the writer.
          >
          >Remember all that speculation about "Atlantis"? No less than Plato spoke
          of
          >it. It may be there was such a place. It may be it was in the eastern
          >Mediterranean, rather than beyond the "Pillars of Hercules."
          >
          >It may also be it never really existed.
          >
          >Why bother with it?
          >
          >It does no harm to think it might have been.
          >
          >If there had been no French Revolution I, myself, would not be. Little as
          I
          >have cared for that all these years, it was necessary for me to come into
          >existence. Had my father's mother's family not been driven here, my father
          >and mother could never have met. Hence, I could not exist.
          >
          >Strange how such minor details (my existence) can come from events which
          >were grand in scope and intention, isn't it? Yet the grandest of all hopes
          >(Egalite, fraternite, etc.) came to nothing. The revolution ate its
          >children. Only those of us whose families were driven out can look back
          and
          >smile, just as some of our ancestors laughed on their way to the
          guillotine.
          >
          >
          >Father Andrew
          >
          >------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          >eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
          >http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
          >
          >
          >
        • Udut, Kenneth
          I suspect the bread rolls for wiping baby s bottoms was probably an exaggeration by the historian, to get the point across that this was a *really* wealthy
          Message 4 of 5 , Oct 1, 1999
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            I suspect the "bread rolls for wiping baby's bottoms"
            was probably an exaggeration by the historian, to get
            the point across that this was a *really* wealthy
            city.

            Although, noting the cost of baby wipes these
            days, perhaps using breadrolls *would* be
            cheaper :-)

            Kenneth Udut
            Kenneth.Udut@...
            "Voistinu CHelovek
            `Etot byl Syn Bozhij!'"

            |-----Original Message-----
            |From: Robert Miller [mailto:rsjmil@...]
            |Sent: Thursday, September 30, 1999 11:45 PM
            |To: Orthodox Synod
            |Subject: [orthodox-synod] A legendary legend.
            |
            |
            |There are those who are wondering just what the
            |entire provenance of the English newspaper story posted
            |first by Vladimir Moss and then Fr Mark Gilstrap
            |might be, regarding the 'lost city of Vineta.'
            |Is the 'mouth of the Oder' River really in the
            |North Sea? Did they really have that many
            |bread rolls?
            |
            |So, the entire provenance of the story would include
            |the motive for writing it, right? And the motive for
            |posting it. Somehow it doesn't feel all that friendly.
            |
            |Credibility, incredibility, credulosity, and the worst
            |of these is credulosity.
            |
            |Joseph Miller
            |
            |---------------------------------------------------------------
            |---------
            |
            |eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
            |http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
            |
            |
            |
            |
          • LJames6034@aol.com
            Just because it is spring in New Zealand, there is reason why a monk should even know things like this, much less pass them on. Shocked. Dismayed, and not a
            Message 5 of 5 , Oct 3, 1999
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              Just because it is spring in New Zealand, there is reason why a monk should
              even know things like this, much less pass them on.

              Shocked. Dismayed, and not a little disappointed. That's what I am!

              (I hope you know I am teasing.)

              I went to a going away party, on Friday, after work. Most of the congregants
              had been there for a few hours before I came. They were pretty well "loaded."

              Drunks are not as much fun as they think they are. Moreover, even if I were
              inclined to try to catch up to them (and I am not), they can never be as
              amusing as they think they are.

              I said of that experience: "So, this is what wicked people do with their
              Friday evenings?!"

              No. They were just having "fun." I do hope they all made it home without
              killing anyone. That cannot be much fun.

              Did I tell you I was detained, for two hours, on US Interstate 95, through
              North Carolina, on Labor Day (the first monday in Sept., always)? There was
              a ten car pile-up ahead of me.

              I eventually pulled off the road, had dinner, and was instructed to go around
              the mess. It didn't ruin my Labor Day Weekend, but it did delay me a little.

              I imagine those who were more substantially involved in the pile-up were a
              great deal more than just "inconvenienced."

              We were all traveling at 70 mph. Those who piled up may have been among
              those who, on a wet and rainy evening, were passing us going 80 to 90 mph.
              Driving a car at those speeds is like directing a bullet. It can be done,
              but. . . .

              I had spent part of my Labor Day at St. Marys City, the colonial capital of
              Maryland. My great grandfather (times 14) Gerrit van Sweringen ran an inn
              there, in the 17th century.

              I was intrigued by the fact that his descendants come there with regularity.
              Knowing about him must be passed down from generation to generation, in
              other branches of his family, too.

              I recently wrote to one of Gerrit's descendants, out in California: Mark
              Swearingen (the name has been Englished, obviously) whose name appeared on
              the website for those who were defending the priests who were deposed by
              Metropolitan PHILIP of the Antiochian Archdiocese.

              My message simply said: "Does the name Gerrit van Sweringen have any meaning
              for you?"

              That was enough.

              Mark told me one of the priests who would have been deposed (had he not died
              in the year previous) was another of Gerrit van Sweringen's descendants, on
              his mother's side.

              So, I'm always fascinated by stories. Hidden in some of the stories handed
              down is a kernel of truth. Even the myths may have some truth to them. The
              gods were likely nothing more than heroes who were deified, over time.

              That is why my most recent post to The List tries to encourage a little more
              tolerance. Perhaps there is a kernel of truth. Perhaps not. Nevertheless,
              the story is fascinating.


              L+

              Father Andrew
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