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Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Mixed Marriages [was: Pray!!! Help Esphigmenou]

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  • Fr. John R. Shaw
    ... JRS: Archbishop Athanasios *suggested* it -- that is to say, in his speech at the 1983 Sobor, he said, *in passing*, something to the effect that and we
    Message 1 of 33 , Feb 3, 2003
      > Fr. John:
      >
      > However, Archbishop Afanassy firmly rejected the change (and it may
      > be of interest that he was the one who in 1983 suggested
      > the "anathema against ecumenism").
      >
      > Father, I've often understood you to tell us that the anathema
      > against ecumenism was promulgated by HTM. Your statement above seems
      > to contradict this claim. Please explain.

      JRS: Archbishop Athanasios *suggested* it -- that is to say, in his
      speech at the 1983 Sobor, he said, *in passing*, something to the
      effect that "and we ought to include the ecumenists and modernists
      among those named in the anathemas on the Sunday of Orthodoxy..."

      This was a passing remark, nothing more. No one seems to have
      anticipated it when it was made, and there was no further discussion of
      it. However, it was subsequently made the excuse (by others, not by Vl.
      Afanassy himself) for adding the "anathema of 1983" to the acts of that
      Sobor.

      The text was certainly not his work, nor that of any of our bishops: as
      we have said repeatedly (on the Paradosis list), if it had been, it
      would have been composed in Russian rather than in English, and there
      would have been no need for it to have been "translated from English
      into Slavonic and Russian".

      In Christ
      Fr. John R. Shaw
    • maureengirard <maureengirard@yahoo.com>
      ... wrote: Before our entire household is declared as over the brink, I have a couple of honest questions.
      Message 33 of 33 , Feb 27, 2003
        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "stefanvpavlenko
        <StefanVPavlenko@n...>" <StefanVPavlenko@n...> wrote:

        Before our entire household is declared as "over the brink," I have a
        couple of honest questions. Does she have a catalogue? Does she do
        Greek?
        Maureen


        > > 4. Ordered some podryasniki from the matushka of the Sydney ROC-
        MP
        > > priest (although that's only half-"heretical" since I haven't
        > picked
        > > them up or paid for them yet)...
        >
        > Everything BUT the above can be forgiven, do to human WEAKNESS and
        > the influence of the fallen world about us,----BUT ORDERING
        VESTMENTS
        > from other than MY matushka is unacceptable! CUSTOM LITURGICAL
        > VESTMENTS, over 25 years (oops, thirty) experiance: Tatiana
        Pavlenko,
        > 1136 Palm Drive, Burlingame, CA 94010 650 344 4355
        > tpavlenko@h... REPENT NOW!!!!
        >
        > o Stefan :-)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "maestro_vg <diakon@o...>"
        > <diakon@o...> wrote:
        > > Good on ya Larry!
        > > Here are some of the major "heretical" activities that I have
        been
        > > involved in since I moved to the land of OZ:
        > > 1. I have accepted a blessing from an ROC-MP priest...
        > > 2. Conducted a concert of Russian Orthodox liturgical and secular
        > > music in a CATHOLIC church, which was attended by concertgoers of
        > > various denominations, as well as Orthodox, including most of the
        > > Sydney ROCA clergy, the local ROC-MP priest and the resident RC
        > > priest. Also in a CATHOLIC church, I chanted various vozglasi
        > during
        > > a concert of Russian Orthodox liturgical music performed by the
        > > Melbourne Chorale...
        > > 3. Whilst in Melbourne, I crossed myself as I drove by an ROC-MP
        > > church, as well as a Serbian Orthodox church...
        > > 4. Ordered some podryasniki from the matushka of the Sydney ROC-
        MP
        > > priest (although that's only half-"heretical" since I haven't
        > picked
        > > them up or paid for them yet)...
        > > 5. Venerated relics of St Nektarios, which happen to rest in a
        > temple
        > > of the GOC-EP. I tried very hard to refrain from saying a little
        > > prayer for my boy's safe return from San Francisco, but, as a
        > result
        > > of my "weakness", I said it...
        > > 6. Used downloaded music from OCA.org for last Friday's english
        > > language choir rehearsal...
        > >
        > > I'm sorry if my radical behavior outlined above has upset the
        super-
        > > duper-orthodox of this list. Oh, and another thing I
        > > must "confess"... I also requested to have my name added to
        > > that "secret" letter rdr John was going on about earlier.
        > >
        > > Unworthy, sinful and whatever other terms of piety that some
        people
        > > use after their ridiculous ROCOR-bashing posts,
        > > dVG
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, larry most
        > > <larrymost2002@y...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST - GLORY TO HIM FOREVER
        > > > Dear dVG,
        > > > If being an "ecumenist" (heretic) means praying, and
        socialising
        > > with Orthodox of other ORTHODOX JURISIDICTIONS then I am GUILTY,
        > > GUILTY, GUILTY. I hope that I never become as judgemental as some
        > of
        > > the folks on this list.
        > > > Love in Christ,
        > > > Sub-deacon Lawrence Most (ROCOR)
        > > > "maestro_vg <diakon@o...>" <diakon@o...> wrote:Elizabeth!
        > > > What are you saying?! You sound like a typical
        > > > ecuemenist/heretic!!! :-)
        > > > dVG
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "boulia_1
        > <eledkovsky@h...>"
        > > > <eledkovsky@h...> wrote:
        > > > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Reader John
        > > > > <rdrjohn2000@y...>" <rdrjohn2000@y...> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > > Tell me, did you ask for a blessing from "Metropolitan"
        > Alexy?
        > > I
        > > > > > know you did, but I'd like to hear it from you.
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > You know, it's attitudes like this that make me sick! If
        young
        > > > > seminarian John was at a church in the USSR and *any* priest
        or
        > > > bishop
        > > > > were there, speaking to him, I would HOPE he would be proper
        > and
        > > > > cordial in his interaction, and that would include an
        Orthodox
        > > > > seminarian seeking a blessing from an ordained Orthodox
        > > clergyman.
        > > > If
        > > > >
        > > > > Indeed, my travels often put me in contact with MP clergy. I
        > > > routinely
        > > > > seek their blessing. Sometimes from priests or Bishops with
        > whom
        > > I
        > > > > strongly disagree on many things -- sometimes from clergy who
        > do
        > > > > things I personally think are incorrect. But, I try never to
        > lose
        > > > > sight of my lowly status ("unworthy," as some people like to
        > > label
        > > > > themselves) and not to judge.
        > > > >
        > > > > Once, at a music conference in LA, Abp. Anthony of blessed
        > memory
        > > > > directed me to seek the blessing of Bishop Tikhon, of a
        > different
        > > > > ("wrong") jurisdiction. So I am not alone in my thinking.
        > > > >
        > > > > Like them and the history and the politics or NOT, these men,
        > > too,
        > > > > pray and serve sacraments, and their hands may or may not be
        > the
        > > > > instruments of holy and divine mysteries. That is why we
        ought
        > to
        > > > kiss
        > > > > those hands. WE lowly people, "Reader John," are not given to
        > > know
        > > > or
        > > > > to judge WHO among us is worthy. Like the Pharisee, we should
        > not
        > > > be
        > > > > saying that we are good and others are wretched. Only God is
        in
        > a
        > > > > position to decide that.
        > > > >
        > > > > In Christ's love (invoked by the sign of the Cross made when
        a
        > > > > clergyman blesses),
        > > > > Elizabeth
        > > >
        > > >
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