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Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Pray!!! Help Esphigmenou

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  • batushka@msn.com
    Let us not forget that St. Elizabeth the New Martyr was Lutheran at the time of her marriage to Grand Duke Sergei, and she was not forced to convert. This she
    Message 1 of 22 , Feb 2 12:54 PM
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      Let us not forget that St. Elizabeth the New Martyr was Lutheran at the time
      of her marriage to Grand Duke Sergei, and she was not forced to convert.
      This she did of her own free will. An excellent example of what can come of
      "mixed marriages".

      Father Basil


      ----- Original Message -----
      Wrom: TFJMVRESKPNKMBIPBARHDMNNSKVFVWRK
      To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 9:44 PM
      Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Pray!!! Help Esphigmenou


      > Mixed marriages are allowed as an exeption by
      > economia, not as a normal practice.
      > Subdeacon Kirill
      >
      > --- "Rev. Sergei Overt" <frsovert@...> wrote:
      > > Yes, they have a very isolated ,extremist attitude.
      > > For example,we in the Russian Orthodox Church
      > > Outside of Russia allow
      > > marriages between Roman Catholic and Orthodox
      > > Christians.
      > > I guess the Esphigmenou monks would be against this
      > > also!
      > > Sorry, extremism is now not what we in ROCOR follow.
      > > Although, it's not nice that the monks are being
      > > evicted.
      > > Orthodox people in Russia attending Moscow
      > > Patriarchate and in Serbia
      > > attending Serbian Patriarchate churches would
      > > probably not agree with the
      > > eviction also.
      > > Fr. S.
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > Wrom: JVZCMHVIBGDADRZF
      > > To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 5:15 PM
      > > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Pray!!! Help
      > > Esphigmenou
      > >
      > >
      > > > > Here's a more thorough article about the
      > > Esphigmenou situation than
      > > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.prnt_article?
      > > > > e=C&f=12998&t=01&m=A07&aa=1
      > > >
      > > > Some of the demands of the monks at Esphigmenou I
      > > don't follow. For
      > > > example..."to halt communication with those of
      > > other faiths." Are
      > > > they referring to other Christian faiths, like
      > > Roman Catholics, etc.?
      > > >
      > > > luke
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Archives located at
      > > http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
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    • Michael Nikitin
      Taking communion every week is considered extremism by some. Although partaking of the body and blood of Christ is something we should do according to our Holy
      Message 2 of 22 , Feb 2 1:45 PM
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        Taking communion every week is considered extremism by some. Although
        partaking of the body and blood of Christ is something we should do
        according to our Holy Fathers.

        Michael N.

        From: "vkozyreff <vladimir.kozyreff@...>"
        <vladimir.kozyreff@...>
        Reply-To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Pray!!! Help Esphigmenou
        Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 19:30:18 -0000

        Dear Father, bless.

        You write:

        "Sorry, extremism is now not what we in ROCOR follow. Although, it's
        not nice that the monks are being evicted..."

        What the ROCOR must make now clearer than ever, is that she will keep
        her stand about ecumenism: it is a heresy.

        Everybody will accept that extremism is not good. The only question
        is to know what definition of extremism you accept. Stopping at a red
        traffic light at night is considered an extremist behaviour by some
        people. Always stopping at a red traffic light during the day is
        considered an extremist behaviour by others. Among the latino-
        catholics, insisting on going to church once a week is considered
        extremist. For them, being an orthodox is being like a Taliban or a
        fundamentalist intolerant sectarian.

        As a priest, you are considered an extremist by the ecumenist, unless
        you are one of them. I hope they call you an extremist. Being
        called "extremist" by an ecumenist is a glory for a real orthodox.

        Let us not, with the pretence of demonstrating something, first give
        a derogatory adjective to an object that we do not like, and then
        state that, since the object deserved that adjective, so therefore it
        is wrong. You skipped the only interesting part of the discourse,
        which is: what do you call extremism in this case?

        The orthodox Church prohibits marriages with the non-orthodox, but
        will accept to apply economy in many cases, according to the local
        conditions. One of the cases where economy will be applied is when
        the orthodox are a minority, which would mean that, without economy,
        they would not be able to multiply, and thus to obey God's will in
        this regard.

        Let us not mix up the doctrine and the economy. See post
        6598 "orthodoxy combines the total refusal of any compromise in
        matters of faith and an incomparable loving care..."

        Refusing ecumenism is not being an extremist. It is just being
        orthodox. Being isolated is not being extremist, unorthodox or
        sectarian. Very often, orthodox are isolated, and they will be more
        and more so. Christ has warned us.

        In God,

        Vladimir Kozyreff




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      • Fr. Gregory Williams
        To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever suggested that anyone be forced to convert . The issue, and really the only issue, is whether the Church s
        Message 3 of 22 , Feb 2 3:33 PM
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          To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever suggested that anyone be
          "forced to convert". The issue, and really the only issue, is whether the
          Church's blessing can appropriately be bestowed upon marital union between
          an Orthodox Christian and a heretic. If two people choose to live in such a
          union, that's their business (and the Lord's). The fact that it has been
          done and is being done does not wipe away the question, any more than the
          fact that people _have_ been united to the Church (even if inappropriately)
          with baptism, without chrismation, wipes away the question as to whether it
          is ever appropriate for someone from a heretical confession to be received
          into the Church other than by baptism (our bishops in a decree which has
          been published a couple of times in Living Orthodoxy, said it is not, even
          if it might have been at times in the past).
        • Fr. Gregory Williams
          Christ is in our midst! Please forgive delay, Father. Too much to do! I am of course well aware that this practice is widespread in our church, I think much
          Message 4 of 22 , Feb 7 8:19 AM
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            Christ is in our midst! Please forgive delay, Father. Too much to do! I
            am of course well aware that this practice is widespread in our church, I
            think much to her detriment, and that of the people who are allowed, even
            encouraged by implication, to enter into such unions. I of course know of a
            few cases where (since God knows well how to write straight with crooked
            lines!) mixed marriages have ultimately led to the conversion of the
            non-Orthodox person. But I'm afraid I know of far more cases where at best
            a luke-warm sort of Orthodoxy on the part of one partner continues
            indefinitely, even if that.

            Of course, the issue of an existing marriage within which one partner
            becomes Orthodox is an entirely different matter.

            We never do anyone any good by watering down the Truth -- that's the route
            (so avidly embraced, it would seem, by at least a few of our clergy) to
            Episcopalianism or worse.
          • orthodixie@aol.com
            We never do anyone any good by watering down the Truth -- that s the route (so avidly embraced, it would seem, by at least a few of our clergy) to
            Message 5 of 22 , Feb 7 8:51 AM
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              We never do anyone any good by watering down the Truth -- that's the route
              (so avidly embraced, it would seem, by at least a few of our clergy) to
              Episcopalianism or worse.



              I've never served a "mixed-marriage," so thank God I'm not implicated in the
              above remark. :)

              However, it does seem a disservice to the participants of this list to even
              hint that a few of "our" clergy are watering down the Truth.

              FWIW,
              Fr Joseph Huneycutt
            • Fr. Gregory Williams
              My apologies -- the prior message was not meant to be public.
              Message 6 of 22 , Feb 7 9:09 AM
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                My apologies -- the prior message was not meant to be public.
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