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Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Pray!!! Help Esphigmenou

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  • Kiril Bart
    Mixed marriages are allowed as an exeption by economia, not as a normal practice. Subdeacon Kirill ... http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.prnt_article?
    Message 1 of 22 , Feb 1, 2003
      Mixed marriages are allowed as an exeption by
      economia, not as a normal practice.
      Subdeacon Kirill

      --- "Rev. Sergei Overt" <frsovert@...> wrote:
      > Yes, they have a very isolated ,extremist attitude.
      > For example,we in the Russian Orthodox Church
      > Outside of Russia allow
      > marriages between Roman Catholic and Orthodox
      > Christians.
      > I guess the Esphigmenou monks would be against this
      > also!
      > Sorry, extremism is now not what we in ROCOR follow.
      > Although, it's not nice that the monks are being
      > evicted.
      > Orthodox people in Russia attending Moscow
      > Patriarchate and in Serbia
      > attending Serbian Patriarchate churches would
      > probably not agree with the
      > eviction also.
      > Fr. S.
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: <boepad@...>
      > To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 5:15 PM
      > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Pray!!! Help
      > Esphigmenou
      >
      >
      > > > Here's a more thorough article about the
      > Esphigmenou situation than
      > >
      > > >
      >
      http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.prnt_article?
      > > > e=C&f=12998&t=01&m=A07&aa=1
      > >
      > > Some of the demands of the monks at Esphigmenou I
      > don't follow. For
      > > example..."to halt communication with those of
      > other faiths." Are
      > > they referring to other Christian faiths, like
      > Roman Catholics, etc.?
      > >
      > > luke
      > >
      > >
      > > Archives located at
      > http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      >
      >
      >


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    • Kiril Bart
      Well.. if you want to save two dollars, why don t you read it yourself? Also simonia wouldn t apply in here, it s a little different subject, rather if someone
      Message 2 of 22 , Feb 1, 2003
        Well.. if you want to save two dollars, why don't you
        read it yourself? Also simonia wouldn't apply in here,
        it's a little different subject, rather if someone is
        paying for being ordained.
        Subdeacon Kirill

        --- iris cherry <ancianos25@...> wrote:
        > >What about an Orthodox way to help someone in need,
        > >just go and order moleben with akathist at your
        > parish
        > >for persecuted monks of Espigmenou.
        > >Subdeacon Kirill
        >
        > Don't forget to leave a crisp $1 bill to cover the
        > order (maybe an extra
        > dollar if you supersize it with the Akathist) so the
        > priest doesn't also
        > feel persecuted by the orthodox way. p.s. they
        > shouldn't complain anyway.
        > That would be simony. tongue in cheek, Iris
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • pvgol@aol.com
        I believe mixed marriages between Orthodox and non-Orthodox Christians was allowed in Russia as well. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 22 , Feb 1, 2003
          I believe "mixed marriages" between Orthodox and non-Orthodox Christians was
          allowed in Russia as well.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • batushka@msn.com
          Let us not forget that St. Elizabeth the New Martyr was Lutheran at the time of her marriage to Grand Duke Sergei, and she was not forced to convert. This she
          Message 4 of 22 , Feb 2, 2003
            Let us not forget that St. Elizabeth the New Martyr was Lutheran at the time
            of her marriage to Grand Duke Sergei, and she was not forced to convert.
            This she did of her own free will. An excellent example of what can come of
            "mixed marriages".

            Father Basil


            ----- Original Message -----
            Wrom: TFJMVRESKPNKMBIPBARHDMNNSKVFVWRK
            To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 9:44 PM
            Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Pray!!! Help Esphigmenou


            > Mixed marriages are allowed as an exeption by
            > economia, not as a normal practice.
            > Subdeacon Kirill
            >
            > --- "Rev. Sergei Overt" <frsovert@...> wrote:
            > > Yes, they have a very isolated ,extremist attitude.
            > > For example,we in the Russian Orthodox Church
            > > Outside of Russia allow
            > > marriages between Roman Catholic and Orthodox
            > > Christians.
            > > I guess the Esphigmenou monks would be against this
            > > also!
            > > Sorry, extremism is now not what we in ROCOR follow.
            > > Although, it's not nice that the monks are being
            > > evicted.
            > > Orthodox people in Russia attending Moscow
            > > Patriarchate and in Serbia
            > > attending Serbian Patriarchate churches would
            > > probably not agree with the
            > > eviction also.
            > > Fr. S.
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > Wrom: JVZCMHVIBGDADRZF
            > > To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 5:15 PM
            > > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Pray!!! Help
            > > Esphigmenou
            > >
            > >
            > > > > Here's a more thorough article about the
            > > Esphigmenou situation than
            > > >
            > > > >
            > >
            > http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.prnt_article?
            > > > > e=C&f=12998&t=01&m=A07&aa=1
            > > >
            > > > Some of the demands of the monks at Esphigmenou I
            > > don't follow. For
            > > > example..."to halt communication with those of
            > > other faiths." Are
            > > > they referring to other Christian faiths, like
            > > Roman Catholics, etc.?
            > > >
            > > > luke
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Archives located at
            > > http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
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            > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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            >
            > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
            >
            >
            >
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            >
          • Michael Nikitin
            Taking communion every week is considered extremism by some. Although partaking of the body and blood of Christ is something we should do according to our Holy
            Message 5 of 22 , Feb 2, 2003
              Taking communion every week is considered extremism by some. Although
              partaking of the body and blood of Christ is something we should do
              according to our Holy Fathers.

              Michael N.

              From: "vkozyreff <vladimir.kozyreff@...>"
              <vladimir.kozyreff@...>
              Reply-To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
              To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Pray!!! Help Esphigmenou
              Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 19:30:18 -0000

              Dear Father, bless.

              You write:

              "Sorry, extremism is now not what we in ROCOR follow. Although, it's
              not nice that the monks are being evicted..."

              What the ROCOR must make now clearer than ever, is that she will keep
              her stand about ecumenism: it is a heresy.

              Everybody will accept that extremism is not good. The only question
              is to know what definition of extremism you accept. Stopping at a red
              traffic light at night is considered an extremist behaviour by some
              people. Always stopping at a red traffic light during the day is
              considered an extremist behaviour by others. Among the latino-
              catholics, insisting on going to church once a week is considered
              extremist. For them, being an orthodox is being like a Taliban or a
              fundamentalist intolerant sectarian.

              As a priest, you are considered an extremist by the ecumenist, unless
              you are one of them. I hope they call you an extremist. Being
              called "extremist" by an ecumenist is a glory for a real orthodox.

              Let us not, with the pretence of demonstrating something, first give
              a derogatory adjective to an object that we do not like, and then
              state that, since the object deserved that adjective, so therefore it
              is wrong. You skipped the only interesting part of the discourse,
              which is: what do you call extremism in this case?

              The orthodox Church prohibits marriages with the non-orthodox, but
              will accept to apply economy in many cases, according to the local
              conditions. One of the cases where economy will be applied is when
              the orthodox are a minority, which would mean that, without economy,
              they would not be able to multiply, and thus to obey God's will in
              this regard.

              Let us not mix up the doctrine and the economy. See post
              6598 "orthodoxy combines the total refusal of any compromise in
              matters of faith and an incomparable loving care..."

              Refusing ecumenism is not being an extremist. It is just being
              orthodox. Being isolated is not being extremist, unorthodox or
              sectarian. Very often, orthodox are isolated, and they will be more
              and more so. Christ has warned us.

              In God,

              Vladimir Kozyreff




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            • Fr. Gregory Williams
              To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever suggested that anyone be forced to convert . The issue, and really the only issue, is whether the Church s
              Message 6 of 22 , Feb 2, 2003
                To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever suggested that anyone be
                "forced to convert". The issue, and really the only issue, is whether the
                Church's blessing can appropriately be bestowed upon marital union between
                an Orthodox Christian and a heretic. If two people choose to live in such a
                union, that's their business (and the Lord's). The fact that it has been
                done and is being done does not wipe away the question, any more than the
                fact that people _have_ been united to the Church (even if inappropriately)
                with baptism, without chrismation, wipes away the question as to whether it
                is ever appropriate for someone from a heretical confession to be received
                into the Church other than by baptism (our bishops in a decree which has
                been published a couple of times in Living Orthodoxy, said it is not, even
                if it might have been at times in the past).
              • Fr. Gregory Williams
                Christ is in our midst! Please forgive delay, Father. Too much to do! I am of course well aware that this practice is widespread in our church, I think much
                Message 7 of 22 , Feb 7, 2003
                  Christ is in our midst! Please forgive delay, Father. Too much to do! I
                  am of course well aware that this practice is widespread in our church, I
                  think much to her detriment, and that of the people who are allowed, even
                  encouraged by implication, to enter into such unions. I of course know of a
                  few cases where (since God knows well how to write straight with crooked
                  lines!) mixed marriages have ultimately led to the conversion of the
                  non-Orthodox person. But I'm afraid I know of far more cases where at best
                  a luke-warm sort of Orthodoxy on the part of one partner continues
                  indefinitely, even if that.

                  Of course, the issue of an existing marriage within which one partner
                  becomes Orthodox is an entirely different matter.

                  We never do anyone any good by watering down the Truth -- that's the route
                  (so avidly embraced, it would seem, by at least a few of our clergy) to
                  Episcopalianism or worse.
                • orthodixie@aol.com
                  We never do anyone any good by watering down the Truth -- that s the route (so avidly embraced, it would seem, by at least a few of our clergy) to
                  Message 8 of 22 , Feb 7, 2003
                    We never do anyone any good by watering down the Truth -- that's the route
                    (so avidly embraced, it would seem, by at least a few of our clergy) to
                    Episcopalianism or worse.



                    I've never served a "mixed-marriage," so thank God I'm not implicated in the
                    above remark. :)

                    However, it does seem a disservice to the participants of this list to even
                    hint that a few of "our" clergy are watering down the Truth.

                    FWIW,
                    Fr Joseph Huneycutt
                  • Fr. Gregory Williams
                    My apologies -- the prior message was not meant to be public.
                    Message 9 of 22 , Feb 7, 2003
                      My apologies -- the prior message was not meant to be public.
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