Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Mixed marriages [was:Esphigmenou monks extremists?}
- I want to add that, I have more than one Mixed Marriage Un- Mixed!
I just realized when writing this!
Glory to God!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rev. Sergei Overt" <frsovert@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 3:46 AM
Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Mixed marriages [was:Esphigmenou monks
> Thank you Fr. John. You explained it so well.
> You might add that the converts from the mixed marriage
> might have been received into the Church(Orthodoxy) at times by
> "according to the Trebnik" as Metroplitan Vitaly, then my diocesan bishop,
> had instructed me once!
> I have an older couple where the non-Orthodox spouse was received many
> years ago by one of the elderly Russian priests here by what I can make
> as the "3-rd rite",Confession and Communion. The children (who are now
> grown)were all baptized Orthodox of course.
> Fr. S.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@...>
> To: <email@example.com>; <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 2:33 PM
> Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Mixed marriages [was:Esphigmenou monks
> > Fr. Gregory Williams wrote:
> > > "We" in ROCOR, if it includes me (and a
> > > significant number of others) do _not_ bestow the Church's blessing
> > upon
> > > unions between Orthodox Christians and heretics of any variety. Such
> > unions
> > > are quite explicitly and vehemently forbidden by the Church, frequent
> > > "economies" in the present-day notwithstanding (see "Does the Orthodox
> > > Church Permit Mixed Marriages", Living Orthodoxy, vol. XI #2, for
> > pertinent
> > > canonical and other citations).
> > Two points regarding the above:
> > 1) Monks normally do not perform marriages, except if they are bishops,
> > or assigned to a parish; and, since women and female animals are not
> > allowed on Mt. Athos, there is no way there could be "mixed (or other)
> > marriages" at Esphigmenou.
> > 2) While of course there can be arguments offered against mixed
> > marriages, nevertheless, the Orthodox Church *does* permit them. At
> > least, the Church permits them if one accepts the authority of the
> > Russian Church, and of all the other Local Churches, instead of merely
> > citing Canons that refer to ancient heretics and situations in a
> > predominantly Orthodox society.
> > At the present time, and especially in America, for a priest to refuse
> > to perform a mixed marriage (even though the Church does permit it),
> > the result usually is one of the following:
> > a) The couple simply *go to another, usually non-Orthodox, church*,
> > where the marriage takes place -- and where the children will now
> > probably be baptized and raised.
> > b) The non-Orthodox partner *converts, but insincerely*, merely so that
> > the ceremony can go ahead. Usually, this has a negative impact on the
> > individual, who might become a lukewarm parishioner, but often never
> > sets foot in the door again and has no further interest in Orthodoxy.
> > c) In one or two cases I have heard of, it was possible to persuade the
> > Orthodox would-be partner to *break off the engagement*; but this in
> > turn resulted in a lasting resentment which undermined that person's
> > commitment to the Church.
> > Yes, *sometimes* there are "good" conversions to Orthodoxy as a result
> > of a priest insisting on "baptizing" the non-Orthodox party. But one
> > cannot count on this, and I have known of many lasting and sincere
> > conversions that came about years after the "mixed marriage" was
> > blessed by the Church.
> > In Christ
> > Fr. John R. Shaw
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