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Re: [orthodox-synod] Extremism, Esphigmenou, Mixed Marriages, RC 'church'

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  • Rev. Sergei Overt
    Dear Stephanos, By your name I presume that you are not Russian yet are on this list because you attend a ROCOR church. What you write is correct and very
    Message 1 of 1 , Feb 1, 2003
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      Dear Stephanos,
      By your name I presume that you are not Russian yet are on this list
      because you attend a ROCOR church.
      What you write is correct and very direct.
      Our problem is that in ROCOR we did not directly say what you said in your
      post
      about mixed marriages, heretics, ect....
      The ROCOR should have directly said this for the past 80 years.
      We didn't in our Russian parishes. We were "Russian and tolerant"! Those who
      spoke directly are now with Boston or ROCiE or ROAC.
      We DO have many mixed marriages. One priest explained this on some list once
      by saying we hoped "for better results", that is, that the marriage would
      take place in our church and the young people would not leave and baptize
      the children with us. To preserve Russian families in our parishes.
      The OCA was even more tolerant than ROCOR. In many places if Russian people
      didn't get what they wanted from ROCOR they went to the other Russian church
      in town - OCA. Very simple.
      Sorry for my directness. I don't want to upset you Stephanos or anyone else.
      I am hurt about what has happened to the Russian Diaspora and our beloved
      ROCOR, because not everything was directly taught.

      All we can do is say a quit prayer for the monks of Esphigmenou,
      worry about our own church and try to save our souls.

      With love in Christ,
      Fr. Sergei

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "StephenATL" <sbu@...>
      To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 12:30 PM
      Subject: [orthodox-synod] Extremism, Esphigmenou, Mixed Marriages, RC
      'church'


      > 1. Roman Catholics are NOT Christians............ they are HERETICS!
      > ROMAN Catholicism IS NOT a CHURCH it is a HERESY. There is only ONE,
      > HOLY, APOSTOLIC, CATHOLIC, ORTHODOX CHURCH! There is only ONE
      > FAITH, ONE BAPTISM. Our Lord Christ himself said that we can only serve
      > one master, either God or Mammon (the Devil, the pope, whatever replaces
      > God). ROMAN Catholicism is so far from genuine Christianity that it can
      > be called nothing less than a heresy, and has been so named by many
      > Church Councils and Holy Fathers!
      > 2. While permitted, mixed marriages should be highly discouraged and
      > frowned upon. Take it from a child of a mixed-faith marriage..........
      > it is hardest on the children, who love both their parents, and are
      > torn between which one to follow. Clergy and families should do
      > everything in their power to discourage mixed marriages, only allowing
      > them as a last resort, after every appeal to the couple fails. Orthodox
      > children should be taught from childhood that when they grow up they
      > should marry someone who is Orthodox, so they can be united in Christ,
      > and for the benefit of their future children. If Orthodox children were
      > raised in such a mindset (as many Jewish and Muslim children are) there
      > would be much fewer 'mixed marriages'.
      >
      > 3. Even the Greek New Calendarist/Modernists do not call the fathers of
      > Esphigmenou "extremists and fanatics" they call them "zealots";
      > perhaps because......... they know that the monks are
      > fighting/resisting to hold up genuine Orthodoxy. They are "isolated"
      > because they have been forced into isolation! I nor the "zealots" of
      > Orthodoxy are totally against discussions with people of other
      > confessions............BUT, they should always be done in an effort to
      > shine forth the truthfulness and supremacy of the Orthodox Faith; NOT
      > in a spirit of compromise, relativism or minimalism.......... "just so
      > we can all get along". This is one of the "great traps" of
      > Ecumenism.......... its "false love", a false love that teaches it is
      > o.k. to compromise your beliefs in the name of "brotherly love". The
      > great Holy Fathers and Teachers of the Orthodox Faith would NEVER
      > condone this! (St. John Chrysostom, St. Basil the Great, St. Maximos
      > the Confessor, St. Mark of Ephesus......... and many, many others......).
      >
      > «And this I pray, that your LOVE may abound still more and more in
      > knowledge and all DISCERNMENT. Phil. 1:9»
      >
      > «He does not extoll. . . just love, but such as comes from
      > knowledge . . . He means, with judgment, with reason, with
      > discrimination. There are those who love without reason, simply and
      > anyhow, whence it comes that such friendships are weak. He says, .
      > . .'that you may approve the things that are excellent,' that is
      > things that are profitable . . .For there is danger lest anyone be
      > spoiled by the love of HERETICS . . .so you receive no spurious
      > doctrine UNDER THE PRETENSE OF LOVE» St. John Chrysostom
      >
      >
      > The Fathers and Saint of the Church constantly warn us about even
      > talking with heretics and worldly people......... knowing that no
      > matter how strong our faith and knowledge of the faith is, in a moment
      > of weakness and/or doubt they could lead us astray, or at least start us
      > questioning our faith. SINCERE, HONEST discussions with Roman
      > Catholics, with a goal of reuniting them to the Faith would be good.
      > But as anyone with eyes and ears who studies the history of Ecumenism,
      > especially since 1920, will plainly see that they have NO honest desire
      > to return to the True Faith, but to subjugate the Orthodox to Mammon
      > (the Pope).
      >
      > in love of Christ, the Truth and Orthodoxy,
      >
      > Stephanos
      > least among sinners
      >
      >
      >
      > Rev. Sergei Overt wrote:
      >
      > > Yes, they have a very isolated ,extremist attitude.
      > > For example,we in the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia allow
      > > marriages between Roman Catholic and Orthodox Christians.
      > > I guess the Esphigmenou monks would be against this also!
      > > Sorry, extremism is now not what we in ROCOR follow.
      > > Although, it's not nice that the monks are being evicted.
      > > Orthodox people in Russia attending Moscow Patriarchate and in Serbia
      > > attending Serbian Patriarchate churches would probably not agree with
      the
      > > eviction also.
      > > Fr. S.
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: <boepad@...>
      > > To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 5:15 PM
      > > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Pray!!! Help Esphigmenou
      > >
      > >
      > > > > Here's a more thorough article about the Esphigmenou situation than
      > > >
      > > > > http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.prnt_article?
      > > > > e=C&f=12998&t=01&m=A07&aa=1
      > > >
      > > > Some of the demands of the monks at Esphigmenou I don't follow. For
      > > > example..."to halt communication with those of other faiths." Are
      > > > they referring to other Christian faiths, like Roman Catholics, etc.?
      > > >
      > > > luke
      > > >
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