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Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Pray!!! Help Esphigmenou

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  • Kiril Bart
    What about an Orthodox way to help someone in need, just go and order moleben with akathist at your parish for persecuted monks of Espigmenou. Subdeacon Kirill
    Message 1 of 22 , Jan 30, 2003
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      What about an Orthodox way to help someone in need,
      just go and order moleben with akathist at your parish
      for persecuted monks of Espigmenou.
      Subdeacon Kirill

      --- "maureengirard <maureengirard@...>"
      <maureengirard@...> wrote:
      > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Hristofor
      > <hristofor@m...>
      > wrote:
      > > Good idea! You may want to protest the EU "push"
      > to allow women on
      > the Holy
      > > Mountain.
      >
      > Thanks. I just sent them a petition.
      > Maureen
      > >
      > > Hristofor
      > >
      > > At 08:15 AM 1/30/2003, you wrote:
      > > >Dear list,
      > > >
      > > >The European Parliament has a web address where
      > petitions can be
      > > >addressed:
      > >
      > >http://www.europarl.eu.int/petition/petition_en.htm
      > > >
      > > >It would be a good idea that many of us send
      > their protest. It is
      > > >very easy, just enter the website and follow the
      > instructions.
      > > >We have done so in Brussels and even a parish in
      > Russia.
      > > >The more we are, the more effective this can be.
      > > >
      > > >In Christ
      > > >
      > > >Irina P
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >--- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com,
      > "maureengirard
      > > ><maureengirard@y...>" <maureengirard@y...> wrote:
      > > > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Basil
      > Yakimov"
      > > > > <byakimov@c...> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Does anybody have the current situation?
      > > > > Maureen
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In Orthodoxia@yahoogroups.com, Bill
      > Samsonoff
      > <samsonw@n...>
      > > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > 2003.01.29 Guardian:
      > > > > > Police besiege Mount Athos monks
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Helena Smith in Athens
      > > > > > Wednesday January 29, 2003
      > > > > > The Guardian
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Armed police, bent on expelling a group of
      > maverick monks
      > > >vehemently
      > > > > > opposed to reconciliation between the Greek
      > Orthodox and Roman
      > > > > > Catholic churches, last night began
      > blockading their high-
      > walled
      > > > > settlement
      > > > > > on the all-male monastic republic of Mount
      > Athos.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > In an unprecedented step the holy mount's
      > civilian
      > administrator
      > > > > > called for the police as the rebellious
      > monks vowed to defy an
      > > >order
      > > > > > demanding
      > > > > > that they leave the far-flung peninsula
      > today.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > "We could hold out for two years," declared
      > a defiant Abbot
      > > > > > Methodius, who heads the ultra-conservative
      > Esphigmenou
      > > > > monastery. "We are
      > > > > > prepared
      > > > > > to fight on even though the authorities have
      > cut off our
      > > > > electricity,
      > > > > > water, heating and food supplies."
      > > > > >
      > > > > > The 117 monks, the most doctrinally rigid of
      > the 2,000 who
      > > >inhabit
      > > > > > an array of monasteries on the
      > semi-autonomous republic, have
      > > > > denounced the
      > > > > > Pope as a heretic.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > For years they have shrouded their medieval
      > settlement with a
      > > >banner
      > > > > > proclaiming "Orthodoxy or death" while
      > demanding that the
      > > >Orthodox
      > > > > > faith's spiritual leader, Bartholomew I,
      > tone down his
      > overtures
      > > > > towards
      > > > > > Rome.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > The two main branches of Christianity have
      > been separated
      > since
      > > >the
      > > > > > Great Schism of 1054. But patience seems to
      > be running out
      > with
      > > >the
      > > > > monks.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Last month Bartholomew - who, as the
      > Ecumenical patriarch, is
      > > >based
      > > > > > in Istanbul - pronounced the monks
      > "schismatics". As such, he
      > > >said,
      > > > > the
      > > > > > clerics no longer represented the spirit of
      > Orthodoxy and
      > should
      > > >be
      > > > > > expelled - a decision that allowed the
      > republic's state-
      > appointed
      > > > > > administrator to step in.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Last night, the Greek authorities said
      > police would remain
      > > >outside
      > > > > > the monastery until "every one" of the monks
      > left.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > The row comes amid growing demands that
      > Mount Athos lift its
      > > > > > centuries-old ban on females, which extends
      > to animals.
      > > > > > Guardian Unlimited � Guardian Newspapers
      > Limited 2003
      > > > > > --- End forwarded message ---
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >Archives located at
      > http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >


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    • iris cherry
      ... Don t forget to leave a crisp $1 bill to cover the order (maybe an extra dollar if you supersize it with the Akathist) so the priest doesn t also feel
      Message 2 of 22 , Jan 31, 2003
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        >What about an Orthodox way to help someone in need,
        >just go and order moleben with akathist at your parish
        >for persecuted monks of Espigmenou.
        >Subdeacon Kirill

        Don't forget to leave a crisp $1 bill to cover the order (maybe an extra
        dollar if you supersize it with the Akathist) so the priest doesn't also
        feel persecuted by the orthodox way. p.s. they shouldn't complain anyway.
        That would be simony. tongue in cheek, Iris





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      • luke padgett <boepad@msn.com>
        ... Some of the demands of the monks at Esphigmenou I don t follow. For example... to halt communication with those of other faiths. Are they referring to
        Message 3 of 22 , Jan 31, 2003
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          > Here's a more thorough article about the Esphigmenou situation than

          > http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.prnt_article?
          > e=C&f=12998&t=01&m=A07&aa=1

          Some of the demands of the monks at Esphigmenou I don't follow. For
          example..."to halt communication with those of other faiths." Are
          they referring to other Christian faiths, like Roman Catholics, etc.?

          luke
        • Rev. Sergei Overt
          Yes, they have a very isolated ,extremist attitude. For example,we in the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia allow marriages between Roman Catholic and
          Message 4 of 22 , Jan 31, 2003
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            Yes, they have a very isolated ,extremist attitude.
            For example,we in the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia allow
            marriages between Roman Catholic and Orthodox Christians.
            I guess the Esphigmenou monks would be against this also!
            Sorry, extremism is now not what we in ROCOR follow.
            Although, it's not nice that the monks are being evicted.
            Orthodox people in Russia attending Moscow Patriarchate and in Serbia
            attending Serbian Patriarchate churches would probably not agree with the
            eviction also.
            Fr. S.
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <boepad@...>
            To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 5:15 PM
            Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Pray!!! Help Esphigmenou


            > > Here's a more thorough article about the Esphigmenou situation than
            >
            > > http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.prnt_article?
            > > e=C&f=12998&t=01&m=A07&aa=1
            >
            > Some of the demands of the monks at Esphigmenou I don't follow. For
            > example..."to halt communication with those of other faiths." Are
            > they referring to other Christian faiths, like Roman Catholics, etc.?
            >
            > luke
            >
            >
            > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
          • Rev. Sergei Overt
            Dear in Christ Fr. Gregory, You are right about what you say. Please know that Russian priests in ROCOR have always allowed this. (This is how our Russian
            Message 5 of 22 , Feb 1, 2003
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              Dear in Christ Fr. Gregory,
              You are right about what you say.
              Please know that Russian priests in ROCOR
              have always allowed this. (This is how our Russian parishioners understand
              it - "It is allowed" ).From New York to Chicago to Los Angeles(except in
              Archbishop Antony's diocese) to San Francisco to Vancouver. In every Russian
              ROCOR parish mixed marriages between Orthodox and other Christians are is
              allowed.
              I believe it has hurt the Russian parishes spiritually. In rare cases ( I
              have one in my parish) a good thing happened, the non-Orthodox spouse became
              Orthodox!Glory to God! I respect this very much. In most cases though the
              mixed marriage is just a compromise to not hurt the family.This is the
              reality of our ROCOR Fr. Gregory.
              I do not want to offend anyone by speaking about this delicate matter. I do
              believe it has hurt ROCOR over the years and now especially.
              I ask for your prayers, Fr. Gregory.
              With love in Christ,
              Fr.Sergei


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Fr. Gregory Williams" <frgregory@...>
              To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 2:20 PM
              Subject: [orthodox-synod] Esphigmenou monks extremists?


              > Christ is in our midst! Forgive me, fathers, but I guess I'll have to
              > confess to being an extremist. "We" in ROCOR, if it includes me (and a
              > significant number of others) do _not_ bestow the Church's blessing upon
              > unions between Orthodox Christians and heretics of any variety. Such
              unions
              > are quite explicitly and vehemently forbidden by the Church, frequent
              > "economies" in the present-day notwithstanding (see "Does the Orthodox
              > Church Permit Mixed Marriages", Living Orthodoxy, vol. XI #2, for
              pertinent
              > canonical and other citations).
              >
              >
              > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
            • vkozyreff <vladimir.kozyreff@skynet.be>
              Dear Father, bless. You write: Sorry, extremism is now not what we in ROCOR follow. Although, it s not nice that the monks are being evicted... What the
              Message 6 of 22 , Feb 1, 2003
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                Dear Father, bless.

                You write:

                "Sorry, extremism is now not what we in ROCOR follow. Although, it's
                not nice that the monks are being evicted..."

                What the ROCOR must make now clearer than ever, is that she will keep
                her stand about ecumenism: it is a heresy.

                Everybody will accept that extremism is not good. The only question
                is to know what definition of extremism you accept. Stopping at a red
                traffic light at night is considered an extremist behaviour by some
                people. Always stopping at a red traffic light during the day is
                considered an extremist behaviour by others. Among the latino-
                catholics, insisting on going to church once a week is considered
                extremist. For them, being an orthodox is being like a Taliban or a
                fundamentalist intolerant sectarian.

                As a priest, you are considered an extremist by the ecumenist, unless
                you are one of them. I hope they call you an extremist. Being
                called "extremist" by an ecumenist is a glory for a real orthodox.

                Let us not, with the pretence of demonstrating something, first give
                a derogatory adjective to an object that we do not like, and then
                state that, since the object deserved that adjective, so therefore it
                is wrong. You skipped the only interesting part of the discourse,
                which is: what do you call extremism in this case?

                The orthodox Church prohibits marriages with the non-orthodox, but
                will accept to apply economy in many cases, according to the local
                conditions. One of the cases where economy will be applied is when
                the orthodox are a minority, which would mean that, without economy,
                they would not be able to multiply, and thus to obey God's will in
                this regard.

                Let us not mix up the doctrine and the economy. See post
                6598 "orthodoxy combines the total refusal of any compromise in
                matters of faith and an incomparable loving care..."

                Refusing ecumenism is not being an extremist. It is just being
                orthodox. Being isolated is not being extremist, unorthodox or
                sectarian. Very often, orthodox are isolated, and they will be more
                and more so. Christ has warned us.

                In God,

                Vladimir Kozyreff


                --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Rev. Sergei Overt"
                <frsovert@3...> wrote:
                > Yes, they have a very isolated ,extremist attitude.
                > For example,we in the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia
                allow
                > marriages between Roman Catholic and Orthodox Christians.
                > I guess the Esphigmenou monks would be against this also!
                > Sorry, extremism is now not what we in ROCOR follow.
                > Although, it's not nice that the monks are being evicted.
                > Orthodox people in Russia attending Moscow Patriarchate and in
                Serbia
                > attending Serbian Patriarchate churches would probably not agree
                with the
                > eviction also.
                > Fr. S.
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: <boepad@m...>
                > To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 5:15 PM
                > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Pray!!! Help Esphigmenou
                >
                >
                > > > Here's a more thorough article about the Esphigmenou situation
                than
                > >
                > > > http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.prnt_article?
                > > > e=C&f=12998&t=01&m=A07&aa=1
                > >
                > > Some of the demands of the monks at Esphigmenou I don't follow.
                For
                > > example..."to halt communication with those of other faiths." Are
                > > they referring to other Christian faiths, like Roman Catholics,
                etc.?
                > >
                > > luke
                > >
                > >
                > > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
              • Fr. Gregory Williams
                Christ is in our midst! Forgive me, fathers, but I guess I ll have to confess to being an extremist. We in ROCOR, if it includes me (and a significant
                Message 7 of 22 , Feb 1, 2003
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                  Christ is in our midst! Forgive me, fathers, but I guess I'll have to
                  confess to being an extremist. "We" in ROCOR, if it includes me (and a
                  significant number of others) do _not_ bestow the Church's blessing upon
                  unions between Orthodox Christians and heretics of any variety. Such unions
                  are quite explicitly and vehemently forbidden by the Church, frequent
                  "economies" in the present-day notwithstanding (see "Does the Orthodox
                  Church Permit Mixed Marriages", Living Orthodoxy, vol. XI #2, for pertinent
                  canonical and other citations).
                • Kiril Bart
                  Mixed marriages are allowed as an exeption by economia, not as a normal practice. Subdeacon Kirill ... http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.prnt_article?
                  Message 8 of 22 , Feb 1, 2003
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                    Mixed marriages are allowed as an exeption by
                    economia, not as a normal practice.
                    Subdeacon Kirill

                    --- "Rev. Sergei Overt" <frsovert@...> wrote:
                    > Yes, they have a very isolated ,extremist attitude.
                    > For example,we in the Russian Orthodox Church
                    > Outside of Russia allow
                    > marriages between Roman Catholic and Orthodox
                    > Christians.
                    > I guess the Esphigmenou monks would be against this
                    > also!
                    > Sorry, extremism is now not what we in ROCOR follow.
                    > Although, it's not nice that the monks are being
                    > evicted.
                    > Orthodox people in Russia attending Moscow
                    > Patriarchate and in Serbia
                    > attending Serbian Patriarchate churches would
                    > probably not agree with the
                    > eviction also.
                    > Fr. S.
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: <boepad@...>
                    > To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 5:15 PM
                    > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Pray!!! Help
                    > Esphigmenou
                    >
                    >
                    > > > Here's a more thorough article about the
                    > Esphigmenou situation than
                    > >
                    > > >
                    >
                    http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.prnt_article?
                    > > > e=C&f=12998&t=01&m=A07&aa=1
                    > >
                    > > Some of the demands of the monks at Esphigmenou I
                    > don't follow. For
                    > > example..."to halt communication with those of
                    > other faiths." Are
                    > > they referring to other Christian faiths, like
                    > Roman Catholics, etc.?
                    > >
                    > > luke
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Archives located at
                    > http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >


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                  • Kiril Bart
                    Well.. if you want to save two dollars, why don t you read it yourself? Also simonia wouldn t apply in here, it s a little different subject, rather if someone
                    Message 9 of 22 , Feb 1, 2003
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                      Well.. if you want to save two dollars, why don't you
                      read it yourself? Also simonia wouldn't apply in here,
                      it's a little different subject, rather if someone is
                      paying for being ordained.
                      Subdeacon Kirill

                      --- iris cherry <ancianos25@...> wrote:
                      > >What about an Orthodox way to help someone in need,
                      > >just go and order moleben with akathist at your
                      > parish
                      > >for persecuted monks of Espigmenou.
                      > >Subdeacon Kirill
                      >
                      > Don't forget to leave a crisp $1 bill to cover the
                      > order (maybe an extra
                      > dollar if you supersize it with the Akathist) so the
                      > priest doesn't also
                      > feel persecuted by the orthodox way. p.s. they
                      > shouldn't complain anyway.
                      > That would be simony. tongue in cheek, Iris
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      _________________________________________________________________
                      > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months
                      > FREE*
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                    • pvgol@aol.com
                      I believe mixed marriages between Orthodox and non-Orthodox Christians was allowed in Russia as well. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 22 , Feb 1, 2003
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                        I believe "mixed marriages" between Orthodox and non-Orthodox Christians was
                        allowed in Russia as well.


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • batushka@msn.com
                        Let us not forget that St. Elizabeth the New Martyr was Lutheran at the time of her marriage to Grand Duke Sergei, and she was not forced to convert. This she
                        Message 11 of 22 , Feb 2, 2003
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                          Let us not forget that St. Elizabeth the New Martyr was Lutheran at the time
                          of her marriage to Grand Duke Sergei, and she was not forced to convert.
                          This she did of her own free will. An excellent example of what can come of
                          "mixed marriages".

                          Father Basil


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Wrom: TFJMVRESKPNKMBIPBARHDMNNSKVFVWRK
                          To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 9:44 PM
                          Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Pray!!! Help Esphigmenou


                          > Mixed marriages are allowed as an exeption by
                          > economia, not as a normal practice.
                          > Subdeacon Kirill
                          >
                          > --- "Rev. Sergei Overt" <frsovert@...> wrote:
                          > > Yes, they have a very isolated ,extremist attitude.
                          > > For example,we in the Russian Orthodox Church
                          > > Outside of Russia allow
                          > > marriages between Roman Catholic and Orthodox
                          > > Christians.
                          > > I guess the Esphigmenou monks would be against this
                          > > also!
                          > > Sorry, extremism is now not what we in ROCOR follow.
                          > > Although, it's not nice that the monks are being
                          > > evicted.
                          > > Orthodox people in Russia attending Moscow
                          > > Patriarchate and in Serbia
                          > > attending Serbian Patriarchate churches would
                          > > probably not agree with the
                          > > eviction also.
                          > > Fr. S.
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > Wrom: JVZCMHVIBGDADRZF
                          > > To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 5:15 PM
                          > > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Pray!!! Help
                          > > Esphigmenou
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > > > Here's a more thorough article about the
                          > > Esphigmenou situation than
                          > > >
                          > > > >
                          > >
                          > http://www.athensnews.gr/athweb/nathens.prnt_article?
                          > > > > e=C&f=12998&t=01&m=A07&aa=1
                          > > >
                          > > > Some of the demands of the monks at Esphigmenou I
                          > > don't follow. For
                          > > > example..."to halt communication with those of
                          > > other faiths." Are
                          > > > they referring to other Christian faiths, like
                          > > Roman Catholics, etc.?
                          > > >
                          > > > luke
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Archives located at
                          > > http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
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                          > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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                          >
                          > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                          >
                          >
                          >
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                          >
                        • Michael Nikitin
                          Taking communion every week is considered extremism by some. Although partaking of the body and blood of Christ is something we should do according to our Holy
                          Message 12 of 22 , Feb 2, 2003
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                            Taking communion every week is considered extremism by some. Although
                            partaking of the body and blood of Christ is something we should do
                            according to our Holy Fathers.

                            Michael N.

                            From: "vkozyreff <vladimir.kozyreff@...>"
                            <vladimir.kozyreff@...>
                            Reply-To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                            To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Pray!!! Help Esphigmenou
                            Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 19:30:18 -0000

                            Dear Father, bless.

                            You write:

                            "Sorry, extremism is now not what we in ROCOR follow. Although, it's
                            not nice that the monks are being evicted..."

                            What the ROCOR must make now clearer than ever, is that she will keep
                            her stand about ecumenism: it is a heresy.

                            Everybody will accept that extremism is not good. The only question
                            is to know what definition of extremism you accept. Stopping at a red
                            traffic light at night is considered an extremist behaviour by some
                            people. Always stopping at a red traffic light during the day is
                            considered an extremist behaviour by others. Among the latino-
                            catholics, insisting on going to church once a week is considered
                            extremist. For them, being an orthodox is being like a Taliban or a
                            fundamentalist intolerant sectarian.

                            As a priest, you are considered an extremist by the ecumenist, unless
                            you are one of them. I hope they call you an extremist. Being
                            called "extremist" by an ecumenist is a glory for a real orthodox.

                            Let us not, with the pretence of demonstrating something, first give
                            a derogatory adjective to an object that we do not like, and then
                            state that, since the object deserved that adjective, so therefore it
                            is wrong. You skipped the only interesting part of the discourse,
                            which is: what do you call extremism in this case?

                            The orthodox Church prohibits marriages with the non-orthodox, but
                            will accept to apply economy in many cases, according to the local
                            conditions. One of the cases where economy will be applied is when
                            the orthodox are a minority, which would mean that, without economy,
                            they would not be able to multiply, and thus to obey God's will in
                            this regard.

                            Let us not mix up the doctrine and the economy. See post
                            6598 "orthodoxy combines the total refusal of any compromise in
                            matters of faith and an incomparable loving care..."

                            Refusing ecumenism is not being an extremist. It is just being
                            orthodox. Being isolated is not being extremist, unorthodox or
                            sectarian. Very often, orthodox are isolated, and they will be more
                            and more so. Christ has warned us.

                            In God,

                            Vladimir Kozyreff




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                          • Fr. Gregory Williams
                            To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever suggested that anyone be forced to convert . The issue, and really the only issue, is whether the Church s
                            Message 13 of 22 , Feb 2, 2003
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                              To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever suggested that anyone be
                              "forced to convert". The issue, and really the only issue, is whether the
                              Church's blessing can appropriately be bestowed upon marital union between
                              an Orthodox Christian and a heretic. If two people choose to live in such a
                              union, that's their business (and the Lord's). The fact that it has been
                              done and is being done does not wipe away the question, any more than the
                              fact that people _have_ been united to the Church (even if inappropriately)
                              with baptism, without chrismation, wipes away the question as to whether it
                              is ever appropriate for someone from a heretical confession to be received
                              into the Church other than by baptism (our bishops in a decree which has
                              been published a couple of times in Living Orthodoxy, said it is not, even
                              if it might have been at times in the past).
                            • Fr. Gregory Williams
                              Christ is in our midst! Please forgive delay, Father. Too much to do! I am of course well aware that this practice is widespread in our church, I think much
                              Message 14 of 22 , Feb 7, 2003
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                                Christ is in our midst! Please forgive delay, Father. Too much to do! I
                                am of course well aware that this practice is widespread in our church, I
                                think much to her detriment, and that of the people who are allowed, even
                                encouraged by implication, to enter into such unions. I of course know of a
                                few cases where (since God knows well how to write straight with crooked
                                lines!) mixed marriages have ultimately led to the conversion of the
                                non-Orthodox person. But I'm afraid I know of far more cases where at best
                                a luke-warm sort of Orthodoxy on the part of one partner continues
                                indefinitely, even if that.

                                Of course, the issue of an existing marriage within which one partner
                                becomes Orthodox is an entirely different matter.

                                We never do anyone any good by watering down the Truth -- that's the route
                                (so avidly embraced, it would seem, by at least a few of our clergy) to
                                Episcopalianism or worse.
                              • orthodixie@aol.com
                                We never do anyone any good by watering down the Truth -- that s the route (so avidly embraced, it would seem, by at least a few of our clergy) to
                                Message 15 of 22 , Feb 7, 2003
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                                  We never do anyone any good by watering down the Truth -- that's the route
                                  (so avidly embraced, it would seem, by at least a few of our clergy) to
                                  Episcopalianism or worse.



                                  I've never served a "mixed-marriage," so thank God I'm not implicated in the
                                  above remark. :)

                                  However, it does seem a disservice to the participants of this list to even
                                  hint that a few of "our" clergy are watering down the Truth.

                                  FWIW,
                                  Fr Joseph Huneycutt
                                • Fr. Gregory Williams
                                  My apologies -- the prior message was not meant to be public.
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Feb 7, 2003
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                                    My apologies -- the prior message was not meant to be public.
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