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Re: TELLING THE TRUTH IS DANGEROUS.....

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  • stefanvpavlenko <StefanVPavlenko@netscap
    ... And yet with Metropolitan Vitaly, Bishops Sergious, Vladimir, Bartholemew in North America, monk Varnava makes a Deacon and a reader for an American
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 1, 2003
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      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "goossir <irene.goossens@c...>"
      <irene.goossens@c...> wrote:

      > Your suspicion of Vl Varnava's "highly political games" is just
      > ludicrous for anyone who knows him. He lives in France not in
      > Canada. How could he control Vl Vitaly?
      >Irina Pahlen

      And yet with Metropolitan Vitaly, Bishops Sergious, Vladimir,
      Bartholemew in North America, monk Varnava makes a Deacon and a reader
      for an American parish. Why would such a thing need to occur?

      > Does it not cross your mind that the problems now arising around Vl
      > Vitaly could be the result of the signed pact between Vl Lavr and L.
      > Rosnianskaia?

      It seems that it was hoped that the Metropolitan could reside at the
      Convent Novo Diveevo near NY. It was a concession to the Metropolitan's
      own >>>insistence<<< to allow Mrs. Rasnyanskaya to continue being his
      care taker, declawed and neutralized it was hoped. As it turned out
      she took advantage of all parties concerned and having reunited with
      the Metropolitan she reasserted her previous devious position.



      > See in http://www.russianorthodoxchurchinexile.com/silver.html
      >
      > Irina Pahlen
      >
      > - In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Victor Artzimovitch"
      > <vartzimovitch@v...> wrote:
      > > Do you believe that it is Metr. Vitaly who is ruling ?
      > > Do you think that "so-called" (Vl.) Vladimir is able to say a word
      > in the highly political games of ex-Vl. Varnava ?
      > >
      > > The "Vitalybans" are ruled by ex-Vl. Varnava , Mr. Joukoff, Mr
      > Ivanov-Trinadsaty, Mr. Semenoff, etc.
      > >
      > > V.Artzimovitch
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: goossir <irene.goossens@c...>
      > > To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
      > > Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 6:01 PM
      > > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: TELLING THE TRUTH IS DANGEROUS.....
      > >
      > >
      > > Dear Victor Mihailovitch,
      > >
      > > I think we have met in Brussels in November.
      > >
      > > Regarding your mail:
      > > First: The bishop who signs this letter is Vl Vladimir, not Vl
      > > Varnava.
      > > Second: Could you please let us know what harm the French
      > clergy
      > > did against their ruling bishop Vl Ambrose?
      > > For all I know, they protested against his nomination BEFORE he
      > was
      > > their ruling bishop. They were not heard. Then, and only then,
      > > they refused to commemorated him.
      > > Third: If really they did some harm, tell me please why then the
      > > Fathers de Castellabajac (who were the main opponents in those
      > days)
      > > did not apologise to Vl Ambrose when they repented to the
      > Synod.
      > > Their reasons for not commemorating Vl Ambrose is still
      > respected
      > > and accepted by the Synod.
      > >
      > > Perhaps, once for all, this gross contradiction could be
      > explained
      > > to the poor "Vitalibans"?
      > >
      > > With my best regards,
      > > Irina Pahlen
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Victor Artzimovitch"
      > > <vartzimovitch@v...> wrote:
      > > > Dear List,
      > > >
      > > > this document show how dangerous it is to be in contradiction
      > to
      > > ex-Vl. Varnava!!!
      > > > The so-called " French Clergy " have done much more harm to
      > its
      > > ruling Bishop before being suspended.
      > > > Victor Artzimovitch
      > > > 03/02/S
      > > > 1/14 December 2002
      > > > Pr. Nahum
      > > >
      > > > To: Archpriest Joseph Sunderland
      > > >
      > > > UKASE
      > > >
      > > > This is to inform you that because of your activities clearly
      > > aimed at the creation of confusion and disorders among the
      > clergy
      > > and flock of our Church, to wit:
      > > >
      > > > 1.. Support of the usurpation of the Church power and the
      > > organization of an uprising against the Church leadership of
      > ROCA by
      > > Fr. Victor Melekhov; and
      > > >
      > > > 2.. Participation in an unlawful meeting, that was conducted
      > > without a blessing from the ROCA's First Hierarch, Metropolitan
      > > Vitaly, in Worcester, Mass. On Oct. 28/Nov. 10, 2002; and
      > > >
      > > > 3.. Serving Liturgy on the territory of another diocese
      > without
      > > the knowledge and blessing of its ruling Bishop.
      > > >
      > > > 4.. Distributing over the Internet false information
      > unlawfully
      > > using an Appeal to the entire Church (the right to address the
      > > entire Church belongs only to the Bishop's Council and the First
      > > Hierarch); and
      > > >
      > > > 5.. The unlawful usage of the official ROCA(V) web site for
      > > publicizing your schismatic views; and
      > > >
      > > > 6.. The usage of my name for justifying your uncanonical
      > > actions; and
      > > >
      > > > 7.. Inadequacy to your position and behavior as a Dean, who
      > > should serve as a good example for the flock, rather than a
      > > destroyer of their spiritual wellbeing; therefore,
      > > >
      > > > You are hereby banned from the performance of your duties as
      > Dean.
      > > >
      > > > I sincerely wish that you will come to realize how ruinous are
      > the
      > > spirit and attitude that you are bringing into the church life
      > and
      > > that you will humbly repent for this. I hope that our Lord Jesus
      > > Christ and His Purest Mother the Holy Theotokos will help you in
      > > this.
      > > >
      > > > To avoid further confusion, I am banning you from undertaking
      > any
      > > church activity without my hierarchical blessing.
      > > >
      > > > As a preliminary, I am warning you that, should you disobey
      > the
      > > Church Authority, you will be banned from serving as a priest.
      > > >
      > > > Let God help and enlighten you.
      > > >
      > > > +Vladimir, Bishop of Sacramento (signature)
      > > >
      > > > Questions/Comments admin@r...
      > > > © Copyright 2001- 2002 Russianorthodoxchurchinexile.com
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      > Service.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Michael Nikitin
      It was Metr.Vitaly who did not want to go to Novo-Diveevo with L.Rosnianskaia after Metr.Laurus signed the secret agreement with her. Michael N. From:
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 2, 2003
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        It was Metr.Vitaly who did not want to go to Novo-Diveevo with
        L.Rosnianskaia after Metr.Laurus signed the secret agreement with her.

        Michael N.


        From: "stefanvpavlenko <StefanVPavlenko@...>"
        <StefanVPavlenko@...>
        Reply-To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: TELLING THE TRUTH IS DANGEROUS.....
        Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 01:53:01 -0000

        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "goossir <irene.goossens@c...>"
        <irene.goossens@c...> wrote:

        > Your suspicion of Vl Varnava's "highly political games" is just
        > ludicrous for anyone who knows him. He lives in France not in
        > Canada. How could he control Vl Vitaly?
        >Irina Pahlen

        And yet with Metropolitan Vitaly, Bishops Sergious, Vladimir,
        Bartholemew in North America, monk Varnava makes a Deacon and a reader
        for an American parish. Why would such a thing need to occur?

        > Does it not cross your mind that the problems now arising around Vl
        > Vitaly could be the result of the signed pact between Vl Lavr and L.
        > Rosnianskaia?

        It seems that it was hoped that the Metropolitan could reside at the
        Convent Novo Diveevo near NY. It was a concession to the Metropolitan's
        own >>>insistence<<< to allow Mrs. Rasnyanskaya to continue being his
        care taker, declawed and neutralized it was hoped. As it turned out
        she took advantage of all parties concerned and having reunited with
        the Metropolitan she reasserted her previous devious position.



        > See in http://www.russianorthodoxchurchinexile.com/silver.html
        >
        > Irina Pahlen
        >
        > - In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Victor Artzimovitch"
        > <vartzimovitch@v...> wrote:
        > > Do you believe that it is Metr. Vitaly who is ruling ?
        > > Do you think that "so-called" (Vl.) Vladimir is able to say a word
        > in the highly political games of ex-Vl. Varnava ?
        > >
        > > The "Vitalybans" are ruled by ex-Vl. Varnava , Mr. Joukoff, Mr
        > Ivanov-Trinadsaty, Mr. Semenoff, etc.
        > >
        > > V.Artzimovitch
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: goossir <irene.goossens@c...>
        > > To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 6:01 PM
        > > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: TELLING THE TRUTH IS DANGEROUS.....
        > >
        > >
        > > Dear Victor Mihailovitch,
        > >
        > > I think we have met in Brussels in November.
        > >
        > > Regarding your mail:
        > > First: The bishop who signs this letter is Vl Vladimir, not Vl
        > > Varnava.
        > > Second: Could you please let us know what harm the French
        > clergy
        > > did against their ruling bishop Vl Ambrose?
        > > For all I know, they protested against his nomination BEFORE he
        > was
        > > their ruling bishop. They were not heard. Then, and only then,
        > > they refused to commemorated him.
        > > Third: If really they did some harm, tell me please why then the
        > > Fathers de Castellabajac (who were the main opponents in those
        > days)
        > > did not apologise to Vl Ambrose when they repented to the
        > Synod.
        > > Their reasons for not commemorating Vl Ambrose is still
        > respected
        > > and accepted by the Synod.
        > >
        > > Perhaps, once for all, this gross contradiction could be
        > explained
        > > to the poor "Vitalibans"?
        > >
        > > With my best regards,
        > > Irina Pahlen
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Victor Artzimovitch"
        > > <vartzimovitch@v...> wrote:
        > > > Dear List,
        > > >
        > > > this document show how dangerous it is to be in contradiction
        > to
        > > ex-Vl. Varnava!!!
        > > > The so-called " French Clergy " have done much more harm to
        > its
        > > ruling Bishop before being suspended.
        > > > Victor Artzimovitch
        > > > 03/02/S
        > > > 1/14 December 2002
        > > > Pr. Nahum
        > > >
        > > > To: Archpriest Joseph Sunderland
        > > >
        > > > UKASE
        > > >
        > > > This is to inform you that because of your activities clearly
        > > aimed at the creation of confusion and disorders among the
        > clergy
        > > and flock of our Church, to wit:
        > > >
        > > > 1.. Support of the usurpation of the Church power and the
        > > organization of an uprising against the Church leadership of
        > ROCA by
        > > Fr. Victor Melekhov; and
        > > >
        > > > 2.. Participation in an unlawful meeting, that was conducted
        > > without a blessing from the ROCA's First Hierarch, Metropolitan
        > > Vitaly, in Worcester, Mass. On Oct. 28/Nov. 10, 2002; and
        > > >
        > > > 3.. Serving Liturgy on the territory of another diocese
        > without
        > > the knowledge and blessing of its ruling Bishop.
        > > >
        > > > 4.. Distributing over the Internet false information
        > unlawfully
        > > using an Appeal to the entire Church (the right to address the
        > > entire Church belongs only to the Bishop's Council and the First
        > > Hierarch); and
        > > >
        > > > 5.. The unlawful usage of the official ROCA(V) web site for
        > > publicizing your schismatic views; and
        > > >
        > > > 6.. The usage of my name for justifying your uncanonical
        > > actions; and
        > > >
        > > > 7.. Inadequacy to your position and behavior as a Dean, who
        > > should serve as a good example for the flock, rather than a
        > > destroyer of their spiritual wellbeing; therefore,
        > > >
        > > > You are hereby banned from the performance of your duties as
        > Dean.
        > > >
        > > > I sincerely wish that you will come to realize how ruinous are
        > the
        > > spirit and attitude that you are bringing into the church life
        > and
        > > that you will humbly repent for this. I hope that our Lord Jesus
        > > Christ and His Purest Mother the Holy Theotokos will help you in
        > > this.
        > > >
        > > > To avoid further confusion, I am banning you from undertaking
        > any
        > > church activity without my hierarchical blessing.
        > > >
        > > > As a preliminary, I am warning you that, should you disobey
        > the
        > > Church Authority, you will be banned from serving as a priest.
        > > >
        > > > Let God help and enlighten you.
        > > >
        > > > +Vladimir, Bishop of Sacramento (signature)
        > > >
        > > > Questions/Comments admin@r...
        > > > � Copyright 2001- 2002 Russianorthodoxchurchinexile.com
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        > Service.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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      • Catherine
        I assume the ROCOR (V) and ROCOR (L) refer to ROCOR when the Metropolital was either Vitaly or Laurus. I do find very sweeping generalities posted here, and
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 2, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          I assume the ROCOR (V) and ROCOR (L) refer to ROCOR
          when the Metropolital was either Vitaly or Laurus. I
          do find very sweeping generalities posted here, and
          some seem not to be well informed, so I wouldn't worry
          too much about it however!

          =====
          Catherine

          __________________________________________________
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        • stefanvpavlenko <StefanVPavlenko@netscap
          ... Metropolitan Vitaly chose not to go to Novo-Deveevo, true, but it was his insistence that L. Rasnyanskaya continue being his prime care taker. If you
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 3, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Nikitin"
            <mikeniki@h...> wrote:
            > It was Metr.Vitaly who did not want to go to Novo-Diveevo with
            > L.Rosnianskaia after Metr.Laurus signed the secret agreement with her.
            >
            > Michael N.

            Metropolitan Vitaly chose not to go to Novo-Deveevo, true, but it was
            his insistence that L. Rasnyanskaya continue being his prime care
            taker. If you insist that he did not, you reveal that you know nothing
            of the Metropolitan's personal preferences. Not one person, who has
            ever been in his service since L.R. took up her position, can claim
            that he would choose anyone else. The allowance was a concession to
            >>HIS<< request. As it is the subject is moot, because Rasnyanskaya,
            retook her position and now the clergy who surrounded the Metropolitan
            in Mansonville have the exact same problems as had been exposed in NY.
            Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko




            >
            > From: "stefanvpavlenko <StefanVPavlenko@n...>"
            > <StefanVPavlenko@n...>
            > Reply-To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
            > To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: TELLING THE TRUTH IS DANGEROUS.....
            > Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 01:53:01 -0000
            >
            > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "goossir <irene.goossens@c...>"
            > <irene.goossens@c...> wrote:
            >
            > > Your suspicion of Vl Varnava's "highly political games" is just
            > > ludicrous for anyone who knows him. He lives in France not in
            > > Canada. How could he control Vl Vitaly?
            > >Irina Pahlen
            >
            > And yet with Metropolitan Vitaly, Bishops Sergious, Vladimir,
            > Bartholemew in North America, monk Varnava makes a Deacon and a reader
            > for an American parish. Why would such a thing need to occur?
            >
            > > Does it not cross your mind that the problems now arising around Vl
            > > Vitaly could be the result of the signed pact between Vl Lavr and L.
            > > Rosnianskaia?
            >
            > It seems that it was hoped that the Metropolitan could reside at the
            > Convent Novo Diveevo near NY. It was a concession to the Metropolitan's
            > own >>>insistence<<< to allow Mrs. Rasnyanskaya to continue being his
            > care taker, declawed and neutralized it was hoped. As it turned out
            > she took advantage of all parties concerned and having reunited with
            > the Metropolitan she reasserted her previous devious position.
            >
            >
            >
            > > See in http://www.russianorthodoxchurchinexile.com/silver.html
            > >
            > > Irina Pahlen
            > >
            > > - In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Victor Artzimovitch"
            > > <vartzimovitch@v...> wrote:
            > > > Do you believe that it is Metr. Vitaly who is ruling ?
            > > > Do you think that "so-called" (Vl.) Vladimir is able to say a word
            > > in the highly political games of ex-Vl. Varnava ?
            > > >
            > > > The "Vitalybans" are ruled by ex-Vl. Varnava , Mr. Joukoff, Mr
            > > Ivanov-Trinadsaty, Mr. Semenoff, etc.
            > > >
            > > > V.Artzimovitch
            > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > From: goossir <irene.goossens@c...>
            > > > To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
            > > > Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 6:01 PM
            > > > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: TELLING THE TRUTH IS DANGEROUS.....
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Dear Victor Mihailovitch,
            > > >
            > > > I think we have met in Brussels in November.
            > > >
            > > > Regarding your mail:
            > > > First: The bishop who signs this letter is Vl Vladimir, not Vl
            > > > Varnava.
            > > > Second: Could you please let us know what harm the French
            > > clergy
            > > > did against their ruling bishop Vl Ambrose?
            > > > For all I know, they protested against his nomination BEFORE he
            > > was
            > > > their ruling bishop. They were not heard. Then, and only then,
            > > > they refused to commemorated him.
            > > > Third: If really they did some harm, tell me please why then the
            > > > Fathers de Castellabajac (who were the main opponents in those
            > > days)
            > > > did not apologise to Vl Ambrose when they repented to the
            > > Synod.
            > > > Their reasons for not commemorating Vl Ambrose is still
            > > respected
            > > > and accepted by the Synod.
            > > >
            > > > Perhaps, once for all, this gross contradiction could be
            > > explained
            > > > to the poor "Vitalibans"?
            > > >
            > > > With my best regards,
            > > > Irina Pahlen
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Victor Artzimovitch"
            > > > <vartzimovitch@v...> wrote:
            > > > > Dear List,
            > > > >
            > > > > this document show how dangerous it is to be in contradiction
            > > to
            > > > ex-Vl. Varnava!!!
            > > > > The so-called " French Clergy " have done much more harm to
            > > its
            > > > ruling Bishop before being suspended.
            > > > > Victor Artzimovitch
            > > > > 03/02/S
            > > > > 1/14 December 2002
            > > > > Pr. Nahum
            > > > >
            > > > > To: Archpriest Joseph Sunderland
            > > > >
            > > > > UKASE
            > > > >
            > > > > This is to inform you that because of your activities clearly
            > > > aimed at the creation of confusion and disorders among the
            > > clergy
            > > > and flock of our Church, to wit:
            > > > >
            > > > > 1.. Support of the usurpation of the Church power and the
            > > > organization of an uprising against the Church leadership of
            > > ROCA by
            > > > Fr. Victor Melekhov; and
            > > > >
            > > > > 2.. Participation in an unlawful meeting, that was conducted
            > > > without a blessing from the ROCA's First Hierarch, Metropolitan
            > > > Vitaly, in Worcester, Mass. On Oct. 28/Nov. 10, 2002; and
            > > > >
            > > > > 3.. Serving Liturgy on the territory of another diocese
            > > without
            > > > the knowledge and blessing of its ruling Bishop.
            > > > >
            > > > > 4.. Distributing over the Internet false information
            > > unlawfully
            > > > using an Appeal to the entire Church (the right to address the
            > > > entire Church belongs only to the Bishop's Council and the First
            > > > Hierarch); and
            > > > >
            > > > > 5.. The unlawful usage of the official ROCA(V) web site for
            > > > publicizing your schismatic views; and
            > > > >
            > > > > 6.. The usage of my name for justifying your uncanonical
            > > > actions; and
            > > > >
            > > > > 7.. Inadequacy to your position and behavior as a Dean, who
            > > > should serve as a good example for the flock, rather than a
            > > > destroyer of their spiritual wellbeing; therefore,
            > > > >
            > > > > You are hereby banned from the performance of your duties as
            > > Dean.
            > > > >
            > > > > I sincerely wish that you will come to realize how ruinous are
            > > the
            > > > spirit and attitude that you are bringing into the church life
            > > and
            > > > that you will humbly repent for this. I hope that our Lord Jesus
            > > > Christ and His Purest Mother the Holy Theotokos will help you in
            > > > this.
            > > > >
            > > > > To avoid further confusion, I am banning you from undertaking
            > > any
            > > > church activity without my hierarchical blessing.
            > > > >
            > > > > As a preliminary, I am warning you that, should you disobey
            > > the
            > > > Church Authority, you will be banned from serving as a priest.
            > > > >
            > > > > Let God help and enlighten you.
            > > > >
            > > > > +Vladimir, Bishop of Sacramento (signature)
            > > > >
            > > > > Questions/Comments admin@r...
            > > > > © Copyright 2001- 2002 Russianorthodoxchurchinexile.com
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > > Service.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
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