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Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: ]the Russian persecuted Church or Holding Out for a Hero

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  • Fr. John R. Shaw
    ... Somehow, I do not get the impression that this anonymous Podnoss holds up much affection for the Orthodox religion. In Christ Fr. John R. Shaw
    Message 1 of 51 , Dec 2, 2002
      "Podnoss" (Russian word for "tray") wrote:

      > The entire Nation or Nations rose up against the Tsar. The Weekend
      > following the abdication, the Holy Russian Church ceased
      > commemorating the Sovereign & his family during the Litanies.
      > Orthodox priests in the countryside helped peasants organize & set up
      > agricultural commitees, many of which seized property from landowners.

      > Later on, the Russian Orthodox Church assited in the oppression of
      > Catholics in Soviet occupied territory.

      Somehow, I do not get the impression that this anonymous "Podnoss"
      holds up much affection for the Orthodox religion.

      In Christ
      Fr. John R. Shaw
    • goossir <irene.goossens@cec.eu.int>
      Well, I think we all agree about the horrors of communist persecution. (By the way, Mr Boitchencko, I think you are slightly mistaken when you number the
      Message 51 of 51 , Dec 8, 2002
        Well, I think we all agree about the horrors of communist
        persecution. (By the way, Mr Boitchencko, I think you are slightly
        mistaken when you number the victims to only 20 millions.
        Unfortunately, it was much more than that: A. Soljenytsine gives a
        number of 60 millions and some other report up to 100 millions!---).

        Father John said that the resistance of the Russian people was
        poor. Some of us tried to prove the contrary. That was the main
        topic.
        There was also the question about the alternative for believers when
        faced with these persecutions. Compromise or refusal of
        compromise. Who saved the Faith, official open churches or the
        secret catacomb one? You may of course include the little old
        babushkas (but most of them went into the catacombs).

        Thank you Vladimir for answering so well. Of course when I said
        that we should always try to follow Christ footsteps, it was a
        statement of universal conscience. I was just answering what was
        the alternative and showed how this alternative was followed by many
        Russians who won thus the martyr crown and veneration from Russian
        people who finally forced the MP to glorify them. It was those
        Saints and their example that are responsible for the rebirth of
        Holy Russia – not the ones (even if you found old babushkas in their
        mist) who compromised, even with good intents.

        I know, Dear Father John, even better than you do, how sinful I am.
        Very often, writing on this list, I hesitate, asking myself whether
        I am worthy of expressing any opinion.
        What prompts me to write at last, is the search for the Truth, the
        refusal to stay silent when I see our Church being menaced by
        worldly agreements. I was always told that it is even a greater sin
        to stay silent when you see, hear someone being slandered.
        It was the uncompromising behaviour of our Church that made her so
        unique and because of just this, evil forces try to tear her apart.
        Being a sinner does not prevent me from desiring with all my heart
        that the church stays pure, more so as I am not perfect.

        With the Love in Christ,
        Irina P

        In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@e...>
        wrote:
        > Irina Pahlens wrote:
        >
        > > One million attending the Moleben – is that not an `en masse'
        > > reaction?
        >
        > But, alas, that was only on one occasion. The Bolsheviks did
        nothing
        > about it for the moment, but did not relent. Within a few years
        St.
        > Basil's on Red Square, which is one of the best-known churches in
        > Russia and probably the most-photographed church building in the
        world
        > (more than St. Peter's in Rome)--was closed for worship.
        >
        > > Just asking: is Alexis II drawing one million people to his
        > > services?
        >
        > He does, often, draw huge throngs of people. I don't have
        statistics on
        > the numbers.
        >
        > > Many stories are told about the destruction of churches. If
        they
        > > took peasants from other villages to destroy the church of
        another
        > > one, does this not prompt the question WHY? Taking them to
        another
        > > village was certainly a way to ease the job. It is always
        easier
        > > to destroy someone else's home than your own! We all know about
        the
        > > ferocious methods of the bolsheviks: Peasants were menaced to
        be
        > > killed if they did not comply. Relatives were taken as
        hostages –
        > > not everyone is a hero or a martyr. But there was some very
        serious
        > > resistance.
        >
        > Indeed. But it was not enough to stop the Soviets, or to ease the
        > pressure on the Church.
        >
        > > It is not a question of comparing, it is a question of following
        in
        > > Christ footsteps. Are we not called to imitate Him?
        >
        > It is much easier to call on others to follow in the steps of
        Christ,
        > than to follow Christ oneself--n'est-ce pas?
        >
        > > So, who maintained the faith in Russia? The Catacombs or the
        open
        > > churches?
        >
        > The greatest stronghold of the Church was the Russian babushka.
        >
        > But because the devout babushki were able to take their
        grandchildren
        > to the few open churches and have them baptized, or expose them at
        > least a few times to the experience of Orthodox worship, today
        there is
        > a great return to the Church in Russia.
        >
        > In Christ
        > Fr. John R. Shaw
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