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Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: The Orthodox Episcopate of the Russian persecuted Church

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  • byakimov@csc.com.au
    The last soviet patriarch has not repented & to this time defends metr Sergei betrayal as a brave act. If we take the patriarch last words on sergianism
    Message 1 of 51 , Dec 1, 2002
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      The last soviet "patriarch" has not repented & to this time defends metr
      Sergei betrayal
      as a brave act. If we take the "patriarch'" last words on sergianism then
      one must conclude
      that he is trying to rehabilitate metr. Sergei & applaud the
      collaboration of the MP with
      the communists/KGB etc as a necessary evil which saved the MP
      administration, church
      buildings etc.... Judas Iscariot is also being rehabilitated by some in
      this world that he was a
      Jewish patriot who wanted to save his people etc.. Do you really believe
      the last soviet
      "patriach" will condemn his own cowardly kind.....

      unworthy protodeacon Basil from Canberra

      "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@...> on 28/11/2002 12:25:01 AM

      Please respond to orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com

      To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: The Orthodox Episcopate of the Russian
      persecuted Church

      Vladimir Kozyreff wrote:

      > Presently, Sergius's successor, Alexis II does not renounce
      > sergianism (see preceding posts), and the rest of the clergy
      > subordinate to him, supposedly having become free, does not renounce
      > it either.
      > What does the committee on the unity think about this?

      Perhaps it would be helpful if you were to specify how Patriarch Alexy
      II could, to your satisfaction, "renounce Sergianism", along with his

      Surely you know that he did this [in the eyes of most of us] over 10
      years ago, when he publicly repented of his words and actions under
      Soviet rule.

      In Christ
      Fr. John R. Shaw

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    • goossir <irene.goossens@cec.eu.int>
      Well, I think we all agree about the horrors of communist persecution. (By the way, Mr Boitchencko, I think you are slightly mistaken when you number the
      Message 51 of 51 , Dec 8, 2002
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        Well, I think we all agree about the horrors of communist
        persecution. (By the way, Mr Boitchencko, I think you are slightly
        mistaken when you number the victims to only 20 millions.
        Unfortunately, it was much more than that: A. Soljenytsine gives a
        number of 60 millions and some other report up to 100 millions!---).

        Father John said that the resistance of the Russian people was
        poor. Some of us tried to prove the contrary. That was the main
        There was also the question about the alternative for believers when
        faced with these persecutions. Compromise or refusal of
        compromise. Who saved the Faith, official open churches or the
        secret catacomb one? You may of course include the little old
        babushkas (but most of them went into the catacombs).

        Thank you Vladimir for answering so well. Of course when I said
        that we should always try to follow Christ footsteps, it was a
        statement of universal conscience. I was just answering what was
        the alternative and showed how this alternative was followed by many
        Russians who won thus the martyr crown and veneration from Russian
        people who finally forced the MP to glorify them. It was those
        Saints and their example that are responsible for the rebirth of
        Holy Russia – not the ones (even if you found old babushkas in their
        mist) who compromised, even with good intents.

        I know, Dear Father John, even better than you do, how sinful I am.
        Very often, writing on this list, I hesitate, asking myself whether
        I am worthy of expressing any opinion.
        What prompts me to write at last, is the search for the Truth, the
        refusal to stay silent when I see our Church being menaced by
        worldly agreements. I was always told that it is even a greater sin
        to stay silent when you see, hear someone being slandered.
        It was the uncompromising behaviour of our Church that made her so
        unique and because of just this, evil forces try to tear her apart.
        Being a sinner does not prevent me from desiring with all my heart
        that the church stays pure, more so as I am not perfect.

        With the Love in Christ,
        Irina P

        In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@e...>
        > Irina Pahlens wrote:
        > > One million attending the Moleben – is that not an `en masse'
        > > reaction?
        > But, alas, that was only on one occasion. The Bolsheviks did
        > about it for the moment, but did not relent. Within a few years
        > Basil's on Red Square, which is one of the best-known churches in
        > Russia and probably the most-photographed church building in the
        > (more than St. Peter's in Rome)--was closed for worship.
        > > Just asking: is Alexis II drawing one million people to his
        > > services?
        > He does, often, draw huge throngs of people. I don't have
        statistics on
        > the numbers.
        > > Many stories are told about the destruction of churches. If
        > > took peasants from other villages to destroy the church of
        > > one, does this not prompt the question WHY? Taking them to
        > > village was certainly a way to ease the job. It is always
        > > to destroy someone else's home than your own! We all know about
        > > ferocious methods of the bolsheviks: Peasants were menaced to
        > > killed if they did not comply. Relatives were taken as
        hostages –
        > > not everyone is a hero or a martyr. But there was some very
        > > resistance.
        > Indeed. But it was not enough to stop the Soviets, or to ease the
        > pressure on the Church.
        > > It is not a question of comparing, it is a question of following
        > > Christ footsteps. Are we not called to imitate Him?
        > It is much easier to call on others to follow in the steps of
        > than to follow Christ oneself--n'est-ce pas?
        > > So, who maintained the faith in Russia? The Catacombs or the
        > > churches?
        > The greatest stronghold of the Church was the Russian babushka.
        > But because the devout babushki were able to take their
        > to the few open churches and have them baptized, or expose them at
        > least a few times to the experience of Orthodox worship, today
        there is
        > a great return to the Church in Russia.
        > In Christ
        > Fr. John R. Shaw
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