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Under an Ecumenical Microscope

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  • Hristofor
    It s ironic that the more these arguments drag on, the more and more soviet they become, where people are searching for the thinnest shred to convict someone
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 28, 2002
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      It's ironic that the more these arguments drag on, the more and more soviet
      they become, where people are searching for the thinnest shred to convict
      someone else of ecumenism.

      I have attended a handful of Catholic weddings and, unfortunately, many
      Catholic funerals. If I am praying that the Lord show mercy on the soul of
      the newly departed (the more so since s/he was not baptised Orthodox) and
      the ksyondz and the rest of the people are also praying, does this become
      an ecumenical service? If we examine this under the ROCiE microscope of
      "Suspect Ecumenical Activity", it certainly is a planned or purposeful
      event and not by chance -- after all, I did not just happen to find myself
      at a Catholic funeral.

      Back in the early 80's when I attended St Sergius High School, a protestant
      trustee of the school, who had helped the school in numerous ways, passed
      away. At the time, I was one of the few Orthodox in the school and the then
      Fr Anthony (Grabbe) asked me to accompany him to the funeral service at St
      Barth's Cathedral in NYC. The deceased was pretty important, for the large
      cathedral was packed. At the end of the service, Fr Anthony made a very
      large blessing as the coffin passed us by. Where these ecumenical
      activities? I am sure that Vladyka Philaret must have known that we were
      going to the service, since he loved the school very much and Fr Anthony
      was pretty close to him. Surely he would have told him not to go, if he
      did not think it was appropriate.

      Take my wedding for example. There were at least a dozen heterodox
      attending, plus 3 Jews, no less. If they happened to be praying for a happy
      marriage, would that make all the Orthodox attendees "ecumentist;" are the
      priests who served now heretics?

      Hristofor
      >"Ecumenical" is when people of DIFFERENT FAITHS pray together.
      >You know like, Roman Catholics and Protestants. Not different
      >Orthodox Jurisdictions and different Orthodox Church Administrations,
      >which should be seeking ways unite and not remain at each others
      >throats.
      >Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
    • stefanvpavlenko
      Dear Hristofor! You misunderstood my statement; someone was trying to accuse Bishop Ambrose of being an ecumenist because he allowed a Concert to take place
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 28, 2002
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        Dear Hristofor!

        You misunderstood my statement; someone was trying to accuse Bishop
        Ambrose of being an ecumenist because he allowed a Concert to take
        place with singers of different faiths participating. I tried to
        prove that a concert is a concert and in no way can be claimed an
        Ecumenical Inter-faith event. Then the charge was made that Bishop
        Ambrose had an "Ecumenical" service because he had a Moleben at which
        Bishops from other Orthodox Jurisdictions and Orthodox
        Administrations were invited and attended. I said that this too is
        not "Ecumenism". I should have said that Ecumenism, and or better
        FALSE ECUMINISM is when people gather at Prayer services were they
        express a belief that there own faith (or Church) is only part of
        a "greater truth" that must be discovered by taking bits and peaces
        of teachings found in all of the groups gathered and is not, and has
        never been found in ANY ONE TRUE AND UNCHANGED REVELATION FROM GOD.
        Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko

        PS: Only the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Christian
        Church has the FULLNESS OF TRUTH preserved in it, with out change,
        throughout the ages.



        --- In orthodox-synod@y..., Hristofor <hristofor@m...> wrote:
        > It's ironic that the more these arguments drag on, the more and
        more soviet
        > they become, where people are searching for the thinnest shred to
        convict
        > someone else of ecumenism.
        >
        > I have attended a handful of Catholic weddings and, unfortunately,
        many
        > Catholic funerals. If I am praying that the Lord show mercy on the
        soul of
        > the newly departed (the more so since s/he was not baptised
        Orthodox) and
        > the ksyondz and the rest of the people are also praying, does this
        become
        > an ecumenical service? If we examine this under the ROCiE
        microscope of
        > "Suspect Ecumenical Activity", it certainly is a planned or
        purposeful
        > event and not by chance -- after all, I did not just happen to find
        myself
        > at a Catholic funeral.
        >
        > Back in the early 80's when I attended St Sergius High School, a
        protestant
        > trustee of the school, who had helped the school in numerous ways,
        passed
        > away. At the time, I was one of the few Orthodox in the school and
        the then
        > Fr Anthony (Grabbe) asked me to accompany him to the funeral
        service at St
        > Barth's Cathedral in NYC. The deceased was pretty important, for
        the large
        > cathedral was packed. At the end of the service, Fr Anthony made a
        very
        > large blessing as the coffin passed us by. Where these ecumenical
        > activities? I am sure that Vladyka Philaret must have known that we
        were
        > going to the service, since he loved the school very much and Fr
        Anthony
        > was pretty close to him. Surely he would have told him not to go,
        if he
        > did not think it was appropriate.
        >
        > Take my wedding for example. There were at least a dozen heterodox
        > attending, plus 3 Jews, no less. If they happened to be praying for
        a happy
        > marriage, would that make all the Orthodox attendees "ecumentist;"
        are the
        > priests who served now heretics?
        >
        > Hristofor
        > >"Ecumenical" is when people of DIFFERENT FAITHS pray together.
        > >You know like, Roman Catholics and Protestants. Not different
        > >Orthodox Jurisdictions and different Orthodox Church
        Administrations,
        > >which should be seeking ways unite and not remain at each others
        > >throats.
        > >Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
      • Hristofor
        Sorry folks, my posting was NOT in answer to Fr Stefan; I agreed wholeheartedly with what he said. I inadvertently left his reply at the bottom of my post.
        Message 3 of 4 , Oct 28, 2002
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          Sorry folks, my posting was NOT in answer to Fr Stefan; I agreed
          wholeheartedly with what he said. I inadvertently left his reply at the
          bottom of my post.

          Hristofor

          At 08:54 AM 10/28/2002, you wrote:
          >It's ironic that the more these arguments drag on, the more and more soviet
          >they become, where people are searching for the thinnest shred to convict
          >someone else of ecumenism.
          >
          >I have attended a handful of Catholic weddings and, unfortunately, many
          >Catholic funerals. If I am praying that the Lord show mercy on the soul of
          >the newly departed (the more so since s/he was not baptised Orthodox) and
          >the ksyondz and the rest of the people are also praying, does this become
          >an ecumenical service? If we examine this under the ROCiE microscope of
          >"Suspect Ecumenical Activity", it certainly is a planned or purposeful
          >event and not by chance -- after all, I did not just happen to find myself
          >at a Catholic funeral.
          >
          >Back in the early 80's when I attended St Sergius High School, a protestant
          >trustee of the school, who had helped the school in numerous ways, passed
          >away. At the time, I was one of the few Orthodox in the school and the then
          >Fr Anthony (Grabbe) asked me to accompany him to the funeral service at St
          >Barth's Cathedral in NYC. The deceased was pretty important, for the large
          >cathedral was packed. At the end of the service, Fr Anthony made a very
          >large blessing as the coffin passed us by. Where these ecumenical
          >activities? I am sure that Vladyka Philaret must have known that we were
          >going to the service, since he loved the school very much and Fr Anthony
          >was pretty close to him. Surely he would have told him not to go, if he
          >did not think it was appropriate.
          >
          >Take my wedding for example. There were at least a dozen heterodox
          >attending, plus 3 Jews, no less. If they happened to be praying for a happy
          >marriage, would that make all the Orthodox attendees "ecumentist;" are the
          >priests who served now heretics?
          >
          >Hristofor
          > >"Ecumenical" is when people of DIFFERENT FAITHS pray together.
          > >You know like, Roman Catholics and Protestants. Not different
          > >Orthodox Jurisdictions and different Orthodox Church Administrations,
          > >which should be seeking ways unite and not remain at each others
          > >throats.
          > >Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
          >
          >
          >
          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Margaret Lark
          ... This is actually addressed to MaryCecilia. Dear one, I hope that all this backing-and-forthing about ecumenical activity hasn t put you off ROCOR. This is
          Message 4 of 4 , Oct 28, 2002
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            Hristofor wrote:
            >It's ironic that the more these arguments drag on, the more and more soviet
            >they become, where people are searching for the thinnest shred to convict
            >someone else of ecumenism.

            This is actually addressed to MaryCecilia.

            Dear one, I hope that all this backing-and-forthing about ecumenical activity hasn't put you off ROCOR. This is *exactly* why we should not be discussing this thread in such virulent terms, because in so doing we scandalize those who are attempting to learn something about this wonderful jurisdiction.

            (Hristofor, I'm not referring to you as being the virulent poster, I just chose your post because you make so very much sense in it.)

            The references to ROCOR and ROCiE, and all the to-do about them, are a sad event in the life of the Church. Since I am going through the same process as you, MaryCecilia, feel free to write me offlist, and I'll do what I can to put it all in perspective. Or you can write to Catherine Sullivan, who has made the same offer, or even to the List moderator -- I'm sure Father Mark wouldn't mind.

            But you nit-pickers will have to answer for causing scandal. I've already made my decision; but if I were still trying to decide, this bickering would have put me off long ago. And I would have lost all the spiritual peace I find in my new parish.

            In Christ,
            Margaret Lark, sinner

            --
            Glory to God for all things!
            --
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