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[orthodox-synod] Re: Fr Seraphim of Platina

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  • Matanna@aol.com
    Father, bless! The Church is an orderly place. We joke about it, because often it seems not to be, but really, order is one of the hallmarks of the Church. And
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 3, 1999
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      Father, bless!


      The Church is an orderly place.
      We joke about it, because often it seems not to be, but really, order is one
      of the hallmarks of the Church.
      And so if we were scattered about without leaders, it would make sense for
      each of us to decide when and where to have an icon of each of the holy
      people who've reposed, but, because the Church has a certain structure, we
      don't need to.

      First, we have panakhidas for the blessed reposed when we are grieving and in
      trouble.

      Then, we accumulate a series of answered prayers, of divine intercession, of
      miracles and blessings.

      Then we tell them to our priests, our bishops, and also to our friends.

      Then, there will be icons, with the blessing of the Church and permission
      from the bishop, because there cannot not be such things.

      This is how it was with St. John of Kronsdadt.
      This is how it was with St. Xenia.
      This is how it was with the Royal Martyrs and the New Martyrs.
      This is how it was with St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco.

      Tradition is a comforting thing.

      In the meantime, there's nothing wrong with having, say, photographs or
      paintings, without a halo, around the panakhida table or such, to remind us
      to pray for those whose intercession we seek. (I know this sounds
      paradoxical. It isn't.)


      And as miracles occur, let's share them.

      >Besides, who could "canonize" him as long as his body (etc.) is with the
      Platina bunch.<

      Did we have the bodies of all the New Martyrs of Russia?
      Fr. Seraphim was a ROCOR monk and priest.
      The things that happened after his repose don't change that.

      In Christ,
      Matushka Ann Lardas
    • Orthodixie@aol.com
      ... I don t have an icon of Fr Seraphim, with a halo, for that very reason. I do have a black and white photograph of him in a special place. I also have an
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 4, 1999
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        Matushka Ann Lardas writes:

        > And so if we were scattered about without leaders, it would make sense for
        > each of us to decide when and where to have an icon of each of the holy
        > people who've reposed, but, because the Church has a certain structure, we
        > don't need to.

        I don't have an icon of Fr Seraphim, with a halo, for that very reason. I do
        have a black and white photograph of him in a special place. I also have an
        iconographic style representation of him -- without halo -- in my home. I
        also pray for him at the Prothesis.

        > And as miracles occur, let's share them.

        Absolutely! In order for there to be miracles, prayers answered, etc., there
        must be petitions. Yet, I'm not sure that many folks -- especially converts
        -- know of the "procedure" which leads toward the acknowledgment and
        glorification by the Church.

        To my rather silly statement:

        > >Besides, who could "canonize" him as long as his body (etc.) is with the
        > Platina bunch.<

        Matushka Ann quite rightly replies:

        > Did we have the bodies of all the New Martyrs of Russia?

        Excellent point! It was a flippant statement on my part. All the while, I
        still wonder if the severed relations between Platina and ROCOR are not a
        factor. In some circles, it seems that you can't mention Fr Seraphim without
        being "hushed out" by talk of Fr Herman, et al., etc. I'm assuming that the
        dynamics of conversation were different with regard to the New Martyrs.
        Besides, there were those in the USSR who cooperated with ROCOR leading up to
        the glorification of the New Martyrs. I'm in way over my head here, and am
        obviously a neophyte concerning such things. But, here are some concerns:

        1) Some converts often feel compelled to visit Platina because of Fr
        Seraphim. I discourage them. (No?)

        2) Prior to coming into ROCOR, "Not of This World" was our bookstore's best
        seller. It never -- not once -- turned anyone off from the Church Abroad.
        Even then, I always warned them of the book's Hermanite agenda. (It's
        painfully obvious!) Yet, in the Church Abroad, I'm fully aware that we are
        not to sell this book for obvious reasons (lies & agenda, etc.). We no
        longer carry it. However, prior to our reception into the Church Abroad,
        this book changed many lives and -- almost to a soul -- those folks are still
        members of this community.

        3) It would be nice if there were some ROCOR publications about the life of
        Fr Seraphim, his writings, etc., instead of relying totally on St. Herman
        Brotherhood.

        4) With the exception of adult converts, I hear more about Fr Seraphim from
        recent emigres than anyone else. His writings, during the Communist
        oppression, were a source of great spiritual nourishment for them.

        5) And, speaking of the New Martyrs, wasn't Fr Seraphim a major catalyst
        toward their glorification (miracles notwithstanding)?

        Finally, as I said earlier, I'm delighted that we are discussing Fr Seraphim.
        I'm indebted to him. I'll accept even "flames" if it will help us toward a
        greater understanding and appreciation of his life and work. Struggling to
        grow and pastor "convert" missions without his writings and witness would be
        a toll house all its own. :)


        in XC,

        Fr Joseph Huneycutt
        Orthodixie@...
      • Edward D. Peacock
        Dear Fr. Huneycutt, Fr. Bless! Could you explain this statement in some more detail? I read and loved this book as well. My husband is presently reading this.
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 4, 1999
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          Dear Fr. Huneycutt,

          Fr. Bless!

          Could you explain this statement in some more detail? I read and loved this book as well. My husband is presently reading this. Being fairly new to Orthodoxy, we were not really aware of the details of the Platina situation following Fr. Seraphim's demise.

          What are the lies and the agenda to look out for in this book?

          We would appreciate your enlightenment so we can know what to look out for here.

          In Christ,
          Makrina

          2) Prior to coming into ROCOR, "Not of This World" was our bookstore's best
          seller. It never -- not once -- turned anyone off from the Church Abroad.
          Even then, I always warned them of the book's Hermanite agenda. (It's
          painfully obvious!) Yet, in the Church Abroad, I'm fully aware that we are
          not to sell this book for obvious reasons (lies & agenda, etc.). We no
          longer carry it. However, prior to our reception into the Church Abroad,
          this book changed many lives and -- almost to a soul -- those folks are still
          members of this community.
        • Agape Community
          Fr. Joseph Huneycutt s comments on Matushka Ann Lardas excellent letter.... ... So it is here, and so it was with Vladyka John prior to his glorification. So
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 4, 1999
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            Fr. Joseph Huneycutt's comments on Matushka Ann Lardas' excellent letter....
            >
            >
            >I don't have an icon of Fr Seraphim, with a halo, for that very reason. I do
            >have a black and white photograph of him in a special place. I also have an
            >iconographic style representation of him -- without halo -- in my home. I
            >also pray for him at the Prothesis.

            So it is here, and so it was with Vladyka John prior to his
            glorification. So was I instructed.

            >
            >To my rather silly statement:
            >
            >> >Besides, who could "canonize" him as long as his body (etc.) is with the
            >> Platina bunch.<
            >
            >Matushka Ann quite rightly replies:
            >
            >> Did we have the bodies of all the New Martyrs of Russia?
            >
            >Excellent point! It was a flippant statement on my part. ... But, here
            >are some concerns:
            >
            Not entirely flippant, I think. Unavoidable that this should be a
            factor, though one would certainly not expect it to be so in the long run.

            >1) Some converts often feel compelled to visit Platina because of Fr
            >Seraphim. I discourage them. (No?)

            I would have to do the same, Father. Indeed, I have never, despite
            my great desire to do so, returned to Platina to serve a panikhida at Fr.
            Seraphim's grave. I wanted to do so during a pilgrimage/vacation to the
            west some years ago, just before Fr. Herman's formal deposition. Vladyka
            Hilarion gave me his blessing to do so, provided that Vladyka Anthony gave
            his. Vladyka Anthony, in his humility, did not refuse me a blessing, but
            rather begged me not to go, deferring an explanation of the full story to
            Fr. Peter Perekrestov, who later related his recent visit (with another
            priest) to make one last attempt to talk fruitfully with Fr. Herman. They
            had taken with them a tape recorder... and were forced to turn it off, so
            vile were the words with which Fr. Herman responded to their attempts.
            Needless to say, I didn't go.
            >
            >3) It would be nice if there were some ROCOR publications about the life of
            >Fr Seraphim, his writings, etc., instead of relying totally on St. Herman
            >Brotherhood.
            Amen! I heard a rumor once that Fr. Alexey Young was planning to
            do something of the sort, and hope it wasn't just a rumor.

            >
            >5) And, speaking of the New Martyrs, wasn't Fr Seraphim a major catalyst
            >toward their glorification (miracles notwithstanding)?
            Certainly was for me!
            >
            >Finally, as I said earlier, I'm delighted that we are discussing Fr Seraphim.
            > I'm indebted to him.

            Memory eternal!
            --- St. John of Kronstadt Press
            1180 Orthodox Way
            Liberty TN 37095 USA
            615/536-5239 (voice)
            615/536-5945 (fax)
            agape@...

            Check our web site at http://www.roca.org/kronstadt/
          • Orthodixie@aol.com
            Fr. Alexey Young s review of the book, Not of This World, is available online at: http://www.roca.org/oa/126-127/126p.htm This is probably the best place to
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 4, 1999
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              Fr. Alexey Young's review of the book, "Not of This World," is available
              online at:

              http://www.roca.org/oa/126-127/126p.htm

              This is probably the best place to start.



              Fr Joseph Huneycutt
              Orthodixie@...


              In a message dated 9/4/1999 10:29:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
              peacock_e@... writes:

              > Subj: [orthodox-synod] Re: Fr Seraphim of Platina
              > Date: 9/4/1999 10:29:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time
              > From: peacock_e@... (Edward D. Peacock)
              > Reply-to: <A
              HREF="mailto:orthodox-synod@egroups.com">orthodox-synod@egroups.com</A>
              > To: orthodox-synod@egroups.com ('orthodox-synod@egroups.com')
              >
              > File: Unknown (2483 bytes)
              > DL Time (49333 bps): < 1 minute
              >
              > Dear Fr. Huneycutt,
              >
              > Fr. Bless!
              >
              > Could you explain this statement in some more detail? I read and loved
              this
              > book as well. My husband is presently reading this. Being fairly new to
              > Orthodoxy, we were not really aware of the details of the Platina situation
              > following Fr. Seraphim's demise.
              >
              > What are the lies and the agenda to look out for in this book?
              >
              > We would appreciate your enlightenment so we can know what to look out for
              > here.
              >
              > In Christ,
              > Makrina
              >
              > 2) Prior to coming into ROCOR, "Not of This World" was our bookstore's
              best
              >
              > seller It never -- not once -- turned anyone off from the Church Abroad.
              > Even then, I always warned them of the book's Hermanite agenda. (It's
              > painfully obvious!) Yet, in the Church Abroad, I'm fully aware that we
              are
              >
              > not to sell this book for obvious reasons (lies & agenda, etc.). We no
              > longer carry it. However, prior to our reception into the Church Abroad,
              > this book changed many lives and -- almost to a soul -- those folks are
              > still
              > members of this community.
            • Edward D. Peacock
              Thank you, Father. This is most informative! ... From: Orthodixie@aol.com [SMTP:Orthodixie@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 11:06 AM To:
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 4, 1999
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                Thank you, Father. This is most informative!

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Orthodixie@... [SMTP:Orthodixie@...]
                Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 11:06 AM
                To: orthodox-synod@egroups.com
                Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Fr Seraphim of Platina

                Fr. Alexey Young's review of the book, "Not of This World," is available
                online at:

                http://www.roca.org/oa/126-127/126p.htm

                This is probably the best place to start.



                Fr Joseph Huneycutt
                Orthodixie@...


                In a message dated 9/4/1999 10:29:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                peacock_e@... writes:

                > Subj: [orthodox-synod] Re: Fr Seraphim of Platina
                > Date: 9/4/1999 10:29:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time
                > From: peacock_e@... (Edward D. Peacock)
                > Reply-to: <A
                HREF="mailto:orthodox-synod@egroups.com">orthodox-synod@egroups.com</A>
                > To: orthodox-synod@egroups.com ('orthodox-synod@egroups.com')
                >
                > File: Unknown (2483 bytes)
                > DL Time (49333 bps): < 1 minute
                >
                > Dear Fr. Huneycutt,
                >
                > Fr. Bless!
                >
                > Could you explain this statement in some more detail? I read and loved
                this
                > book as well. My husband is presently reading this. Being fairly new to
                > Orthodoxy, we were not really aware of the details of the Platina situation
                > following Fr. Seraphim's demise.
                >
                > What are the lies and the agenda to look out for in this book?
                >
                > We would appreciate your enlightenment so we can know what to look out for
                > here.
                >
                > In Christ,
                > Makrina
                >
                > 2) Prior to coming into ROCOR, "Not of This World" was our bookstore's
                best
                >
                > seller It never -- not once -- turned anyone off from the Church Abroad.
                > Even then, I always warned them of the book's Hermanite agenda. (It's
                > painfully obvious!) Yet, in the Church Abroad, I'm fully aware that we
                are
                >
                > not to sell this book for obvious reasons (lies & agenda, etc.). We no
                > longer carry it. However, prior to our reception into the Church Abroad,
                > this book changed many lives and -- almost to a soul -- those folks are
                > still
                > members of this community.

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