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[orthodox-synod] Fr Seraphim of Platina

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  • Orthodixie@aol.com
    Regardless of the outcome, I m glad to see Fr Seraphim being discussed. As I wrote to someone privately:
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 3, 1999
      Regardless of the outcome, I'm glad to see Fr Seraphim being discussed. As I
      wrote to someone privately:

      << Fr. Seraphim is greatly revered in our community -- as he is in most
      "convert" communities. I have quite a few parishioners who consider him a
      saint and regularly ask his intercessions.

      Besides, who could "canonize" him as long as his body (etc.) is with the
      Platina bunch.

      Sad, really. >>

      Also, along the lines of some other posts, I'd always understood that prior
      to a holy one's "glorification" by the Church any icons of the person were to
      be sans halo.

      I do thank God for Fr Seraphim and his writings.

      Glory to God for all things!


      in XC,

      Fr Joseph Huneycutt
      Orthodixie@...
    • Matanna@aol.com
      Father, bless! The Church is an orderly place. We joke about it, because often it seems not to be, but really, order is one of the hallmarks of the Church. And
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 3, 1999
        Father, bless!


        The Church is an orderly place.
        We joke about it, because often it seems not to be, but really, order is one
        of the hallmarks of the Church.
        And so if we were scattered about without leaders, it would make sense for
        each of us to decide when and where to have an icon of each of the holy
        people who've reposed, but, because the Church has a certain structure, we
        don't need to.

        First, we have panakhidas for the blessed reposed when we are grieving and in
        trouble.

        Then, we accumulate a series of answered prayers, of divine intercession, of
        miracles and blessings.

        Then we tell them to our priests, our bishops, and also to our friends.

        Then, there will be icons, with the blessing of the Church and permission
        from the bishop, because there cannot not be such things.

        This is how it was with St. John of Kronsdadt.
        This is how it was with St. Xenia.
        This is how it was with the Royal Martyrs and the New Martyrs.
        This is how it was with St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco.

        Tradition is a comforting thing.

        In the meantime, there's nothing wrong with having, say, photographs or
        paintings, without a halo, around the panakhida table or such, to remind us
        to pray for those whose intercession we seek. (I know this sounds
        paradoxical. It isn't.)


        And as miracles occur, let's share them.

        >Besides, who could "canonize" him as long as his body (etc.) is with the
        Platina bunch.<

        Did we have the bodies of all the New Martyrs of Russia?
        Fr. Seraphim was a ROCOR monk and priest.
        The things that happened after his repose don't change that.

        In Christ,
        Matushka Ann Lardas
      • Orthodixie@aol.com
        ... I don t have an icon of Fr Seraphim, with a halo, for that very reason. I do have a black and white photograph of him in a special place. I also have an
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 4, 1999
          Matushka Ann Lardas writes:

          > And so if we were scattered about without leaders, it would make sense for
          > each of us to decide when and where to have an icon of each of the holy
          > people who've reposed, but, because the Church has a certain structure, we
          > don't need to.

          I don't have an icon of Fr Seraphim, with a halo, for that very reason. I do
          have a black and white photograph of him in a special place. I also have an
          iconographic style representation of him -- without halo -- in my home. I
          also pray for him at the Prothesis.

          > And as miracles occur, let's share them.

          Absolutely! In order for there to be miracles, prayers answered, etc., there
          must be petitions. Yet, I'm not sure that many folks -- especially converts
          -- know of the "procedure" which leads toward the acknowledgment and
          glorification by the Church.

          To my rather silly statement:

          > >Besides, who could "canonize" him as long as his body (etc.) is with the
          > Platina bunch.<

          Matushka Ann quite rightly replies:

          > Did we have the bodies of all the New Martyrs of Russia?

          Excellent point! It was a flippant statement on my part. All the while, I
          still wonder if the severed relations between Platina and ROCOR are not a
          factor. In some circles, it seems that you can't mention Fr Seraphim without
          being "hushed out" by talk of Fr Herman, et al., etc. I'm assuming that the
          dynamics of conversation were different with regard to the New Martyrs.
          Besides, there were those in the USSR who cooperated with ROCOR leading up to
          the glorification of the New Martyrs. I'm in way over my head here, and am
          obviously a neophyte concerning such things. But, here are some concerns:

          1) Some converts often feel compelled to visit Platina because of Fr
          Seraphim. I discourage them. (No?)

          2) Prior to coming into ROCOR, "Not of This World" was our bookstore's best
          seller. It never -- not once -- turned anyone off from the Church Abroad.
          Even then, I always warned them of the book's Hermanite agenda. (It's
          painfully obvious!) Yet, in the Church Abroad, I'm fully aware that we are
          not to sell this book for obvious reasons (lies & agenda, etc.). We no
          longer carry it. However, prior to our reception into the Church Abroad,
          this book changed many lives and -- almost to a soul -- those folks are still
          members of this community.

          3) It would be nice if there were some ROCOR publications about the life of
          Fr Seraphim, his writings, etc., instead of relying totally on St. Herman
          Brotherhood.

          4) With the exception of adult converts, I hear more about Fr Seraphim from
          recent emigres than anyone else. His writings, during the Communist
          oppression, were a source of great spiritual nourishment for them.

          5) And, speaking of the New Martyrs, wasn't Fr Seraphim a major catalyst
          toward their glorification (miracles notwithstanding)?

          Finally, as I said earlier, I'm delighted that we are discussing Fr Seraphim.
          I'm indebted to him. I'll accept even "flames" if it will help us toward a
          greater understanding and appreciation of his life and work. Struggling to
          grow and pastor "convert" missions without his writings and witness would be
          a toll house all its own. :)


          in XC,

          Fr Joseph Huneycutt
          Orthodixie@...
        • Edward D. Peacock
          Dear Fr. Huneycutt, Fr. Bless! Could you explain this statement in some more detail? I read and loved this book as well. My husband is presently reading this.
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 4, 1999
            Dear Fr. Huneycutt,

            Fr. Bless!

            Could you explain this statement in some more detail? I read and loved this book as well. My husband is presently reading this. Being fairly new to Orthodoxy, we were not really aware of the details of the Platina situation following Fr. Seraphim's demise.

            What are the lies and the agenda to look out for in this book?

            We would appreciate your enlightenment so we can know what to look out for here.

            In Christ,
            Makrina

            2) Prior to coming into ROCOR, "Not of This World" was our bookstore's best
            seller. It never -- not once -- turned anyone off from the Church Abroad.
            Even then, I always warned them of the book's Hermanite agenda. (It's
            painfully obvious!) Yet, in the Church Abroad, I'm fully aware that we are
            not to sell this book for obvious reasons (lies & agenda, etc.). We no
            longer carry it. However, prior to our reception into the Church Abroad,
            this book changed many lives and -- almost to a soul -- those folks are still
            members of this community.
          • Agape Community
            Fr. Joseph Huneycutt s comments on Matushka Ann Lardas excellent letter.... ... So it is here, and so it was with Vladyka John prior to his glorification. So
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 4, 1999
              Fr. Joseph Huneycutt's comments on Matushka Ann Lardas' excellent letter....
              >
              >
              >I don't have an icon of Fr Seraphim, with a halo, for that very reason. I do
              >have a black and white photograph of him in a special place. I also have an
              >iconographic style representation of him -- without halo -- in my home. I
              >also pray for him at the Prothesis.

              So it is here, and so it was with Vladyka John prior to his
              glorification. So was I instructed.

              >
              >To my rather silly statement:
              >
              >> >Besides, who could "canonize" him as long as his body (etc.) is with the
              >> Platina bunch.<
              >
              >Matushka Ann quite rightly replies:
              >
              >> Did we have the bodies of all the New Martyrs of Russia?
              >
              >Excellent point! It was a flippant statement on my part. ... But, here
              >are some concerns:
              >
              Not entirely flippant, I think. Unavoidable that this should be a
              factor, though one would certainly not expect it to be so in the long run.

              >1) Some converts often feel compelled to visit Platina because of Fr
              >Seraphim. I discourage them. (No?)

              I would have to do the same, Father. Indeed, I have never, despite
              my great desire to do so, returned to Platina to serve a panikhida at Fr.
              Seraphim's grave. I wanted to do so during a pilgrimage/vacation to the
              west some years ago, just before Fr. Herman's formal deposition. Vladyka
              Hilarion gave me his blessing to do so, provided that Vladyka Anthony gave
              his. Vladyka Anthony, in his humility, did not refuse me a blessing, but
              rather begged me not to go, deferring an explanation of the full story to
              Fr. Peter Perekrestov, who later related his recent visit (with another
              priest) to make one last attempt to talk fruitfully with Fr. Herman. They
              had taken with them a tape recorder... and were forced to turn it off, so
              vile were the words with which Fr. Herman responded to their attempts.
              Needless to say, I didn't go.
              >
              >3) It would be nice if there were some ROCOR publications about the life of
              >Fr Seraphim, his writings, etc., instead of relying totally on St. Herman
              >Brotherhood.
              Amen! I heard a rumor once that Fr. Alexey Young was planning to
              do something of the sort, and hope it wasn't just a rumor.

              >
              >5) And, speaking of the New Martyrs, wasn't Fr Seraphim a major catalyst
              >toward their glorification (miracles notwithstanding)?
              Certainly was for me!
              >
              >Finally, as I said earlier, I'm delighted that we are discussing Fr Seraphim.
              > I'm indebted to him.

              Memory eternal!
              --- St. John of Kronstadt Press
              1180 Orthodox Way
              Liberty TN 37095 USA
              615/536-5239 (voice)
              615/536-5945 (fax)
              agape@...

              Check our web site at http://www.roca.org/kronstadt/
            • Orthodixie@aol.com
              Fr. Alexey Young s review of the book, Not of This World, is available online at: http://www.roca.org/oa/126-127/126p.htm This is probably the best place to
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 4, 1999
                Fr. Alexey Young's review of the book, "Not of This World," is available
                online at:

                http://www.roca.org/oa/126-127/126p.htm

                This is probably the best place to start.



                Fr Joseph Huneycutt
                Orthodixie@...


                In a message dated 9/4/1999 10:29:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                peacock_e@... writes:

                > Subj: [orthodox-synod] Re: Fr Seraphim of Platina
                > Date: 9/4/1999 10:29:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time
                > From: peacock_e@... (Edward D. Peacock)
                > Reply-to: <A
                HREF="mailto:orthodox-synod@egroups.com">orthodox-synod@egroups.com</A>
                > To: orthodox-synod@egroups.com ('orthodox-synod@egroups.com')
                >
                > File: Unknown (2483 bytes)
                > DL Time (49333 bps): < 1 minute
                >
                > Dear Fr. Huneycutt,
                >
                > Fr. Bless!
                >
                > Could you explain this statement in some more detail? I read and loved
                this
                > book as well. My husband is presently reading this. Being fairly new to
                > Orthodoxy, we were not really aware of the details of the Platina situation
                > following Fr. Seraphim's demise.
                >
                > What are the lies and the agenda to look out for in this book?
                >
                > We would appreciate your enlightenment so we can know what to look out for
                > here.
                >
                > In Christ,
                > Makrina
                >
                > 2) Prior to coming into ROCOR, "Not of This World" was our bookstore's
                best
                >
                > seller It never -- not once -- turned anyone off from the Church Abroad.
                > Even then, I always warned them of the book's Hermanite agenda. (It's
                > painfully obvious!) Yet, in the Church Abroad, I'm fully aware that we
                are
                >
                > not to sell this book for obvious reasons (lies & agenda, etc.). We no
                > longer carry it. However, prior to our reception into the Church Abroad,
                > this book changed many lives and -- almost to a soul -- those folks are
                > still
                > members of this community.
              • Edward D. Peacock
                Thank you, Father. This is most informative! ... From: Orthodixie@aol.com [SMTP:Orthodixie@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 11:06 AM To:
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 4, 1999
                  Thank you, Father. This is most informative!

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Orthodixie@... [SMTP:Orthodixie@...]
                  Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 11:06 AM
                  To: orthodox-synod@egroups.com
                  Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Fr Seraphim of Platina

                  Fr. Alexey Young's review of the book, "Not of This World," is available
                  online at:

                  http://www.roca.org/oa/126-127/126p.htm

                  This is probably the best place to start.



                  Fr Joseph Huneycutt
                  Orthodixie@...


                  In a message dated 9/4/1999 10:29:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                  peacock_e@... writes:

                  > Subj: [orthodox-synod] Re: Fr Seraphim of Platina
                  > Date: 9/4/1999 10:29:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time
                  > From: peacock_e@... (Edward D. Peacock)
                  > Reply-to: <A
                  HREF="mailto:orthodox-synod@egroups.com">orthodox-synod@egroups.com</A>
                  > To: orthodox-synod@egroups.com ('orthodox-synod@egroups.com')
                  >
                  > File: Unknown (2483 bytes)
                  > DL Time (49333 bps): < 1 minute
                  >
                  > Dear Fr. Huneycutt,
                  >
                  > Fr. Bless!
                  >
                  > Could you explain this statement in some more detail? I read and loved
                  this
                  > book as well. My husband is presently reading this. Being fairly new to
                  > Orthodoxy, we were not really aware of the details of the Platina situation
                  > following Fr. Seraphim's demise.
                  >
                  > What are the lies and the agenda to look out for in this book?
                  >
                  > We would appreciate your enlightenment so we can know what to look out for
                  > here.
                  >
                  > In Christ,
                  > Makrina
                  >
                  > 2) Prior to coming into ROCOR, "Not of This World" was our bookstore's
                  best
                  >
                  > seller It never -- not once -- turned anyone off from the Church Abroad.
                  > Even then, I always warned them of the book's Hermanite agenda. (It's
                  > painfully obvious!) Yet, in the Church Abroad, I'm fully aware that we
                  are
                  >
                  > not to sell this book for obvious reasons (lies & agenda, etc.). We no
                  > longer carry it. However, prior to our reception into the Church Abroad,
                  > this book changed many lives and -- almost to a soul -- those folks are
                  > still
                  > members of this community.

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