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Where does forgiveness figure in all of this?

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  • eliasr77
    I am curious, but I haven t heard much talk about the Gospel recently with all of this talk about ROCOR and the MP. Our Lord is seldom mentioned in these long
    Message 1 of 3 , Oct 1, 2002
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      I am curious, but I haven't heard much talk about the Gospel recently
      with all of this talk about ROCOR and the MP. Our Lord is seldom
      mentioned in these long detailed posts. Is this kind of stuff immune
      from the Beatitudes we sing in the Divine Liturgy? Have the sins of
      the Moscow Patriarchate exceeded "70 x 7," and can no longer be
      forgiven? Where does loving our enemies figure into our church's
      situation? Does forgiving all by the resurrection include
      reconciliation with those who have wronged us?

      Just a few questions, I really would like some answers.

      -elias
    • Kiril Bart
      An idea of forgiveness is more of a personal level application. What good it would do for me if I would forget all of yours enemies for example? Matter of the
      Message 2 of 3 , Oct 1, 2002
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        An idea of forgiveness is more of a personal level
        application. What good it would do for me if I would
        forget all of yours enemies for example? Matter of the
        enemies of the God would be considered in a different
        scale. An idea of total forgiveness, although very
        appealing, is not of the Orthodox value. I think it
        was St. Gregory of Nissa, who did come up with this
        opinion, but his position was denounced by the Council
        and he did accept it and reconcile with the Church.
        An idea of TF is in contradiction with judgment of
        heretics, Anathema of Orthodoxy.
        Sinful, subdeacon Kirill
        --- eliasr77 <eliasr77@...> wrote:
        >
        > I am curious, but I haven't heard much talk about
        > the Gospel recently
        > with all of this talk about ROCOR and the MP. Our
        > Lord is seldom
        > mentioned in these long detailed posts. Is this
        kind
        > of stuff immune
        > from the Beatitudes we sing in the Divine
        Liturgy?
        > Have the sins of
        > the Moscow Patriarchate exceeded "70 x
        7," and can
        > no longer be
        > forgiven? Where does loving our enemies figure
        into
        > our church's
        > situation? Does forgiving all by the
        resurrection
        > include
        > reconciliation with those who have wronged us?
        >
        > Just a few questions, I really would like some
        > answers.
        >
        > -elias
        >
        >


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      • vkozyreff
        Dear Elias, God can forgive any sin if the sinner confesses it. Our pardoning the MP is irrelevant here. The question is not about the MP offending us but
        Message 3 of 3 , Oct 2, 2002
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          Dear Elias,

          God can forgive any sin if the sinner confesses it. Our pardoning the
          MP is irrelevant here. The question is not about the MP offending us
          but about its betrayal of Christ and our uniting with that treason or
          not.

          What we discuss is whether or not we should to board their ship,
          knowing that sergianism has persecuted Christ, that the MP still
          claims it was the right thing to do in spite of not being threatened
          any more, that the MP associates itself with the panheresy of
          ecumenism and that it is an enemy of the Truth, which is defended by
          our Church.

          "The holy apostles, the holy fathers and teachers of the Church, the
          holy martyrs, call upon us, for the sake of Truth, to withdraw from
          falsehood, from the imminent kingdom of Antichrist, and to struggle
          in love for Christ, that we may be written "in the Book of Life of
          the Lamb, Who was slain from the foundation of the world. If any man
          have an ear, let him hear."

          http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/english/pages/poslania/statementof
          synod.html

          Some still believe that we should stand firm, and are persecuted as a
          consequence.

          "Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove
          faithful". (1 Corinthians 4:1-3)
          "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely
          say all kinds of evil against you because of me". (Matthew 5:10-12)

          In Christ,

          Vladimir Kozyreff


          --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "eliasr77" <eliasr77@h...> wrote:
          >
          > I am curious, but I haven't heard much talk about the Gospel
          recently
          > with all of this talk about ROCOR and the MP. Our Lord is seldom
          > mentioned in these long detailed posts. Is this kind of stuff
          immune
          > from the Beatitudes we sing in the Divine Liturgy? Have the sins
          of
          > the Moscow Patriarchate exceeded "70 x 7," and can no longer be
          > forgiven? Where does loving our enemies figure into our church's
          > situation? Does forgiving all by the resurrection include
          > reconciliation with those who have wronged us?
          >
          > Just a few questions, I really would like some answers.
          >
          > -elias
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