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Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Will the Real Metropolitan Vitaly Please Stand Up?

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  • Michael Nikitin
    If Fr. Alexander was at the Synod he must have noticed Metr. Vitaly not giving the staff over to Metr. Laurus? Fr.Alexander writes: After that election,
    Message 1 of 3 , Sep 7, 2002
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      If Fr. Alexander was at the Synod he must have noticed Metr. Vitaly not
      giving the staff over to Metr. Laurus?


      Fr.Alexander writes:
      After that election, Metropolitan Vitaly came into the Synod meeting room,
      where the Sobor of Bishops was assembled, and congratulated Metropolitan
      Laurus with his election, wished him well, and again reiterated that he
      (Metropolitan Vitaly) was tired and happy to now be retired.

      Vladimir, I was there at the Synod when it happened.

      Michael N.

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    • Fr. Alexander Lebedeff
      ... This is an example of the level of fantasy that the schismatics and their defenders must stoop to. First of all, the official rites of the election and
      Message 2 of 3 , Sep 8, 2002
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        >If Fr. Alexander was at the Synod he must have noticed Metr. Vitaly not
        >giving the staff over to Metr. Laurus?
        >

        This is an example of the level of fantasy that the schismatics and their
        defenders must stoop to.

        First of all, the official rites of the election and installation
        (enthronization) of a new First Hierarch are published and well known.

        And, according to them, there is **absolutely** no ceremony of the Elder
        Metropolitan (if he is still living) "handing over his staff" to the new
        Metropolitan.

        See the detailed description of the Enthronization of Metropolitan Philaret
        in the presence of Metropolitan Anastassy, in the Sollogub massive
        two-volume set. The Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia," 1968, pp.
        331-336.

        There, it is made clear that on the eve of the Installation, after the
        Vigil and the First Hour, the Blue Mantia and the White Klobuk are brought
        to the newly-elected Metropolitan by the two senior bishops (in that case,
        by Archbishops John and Alexander).

        At the Liturgy on the next day, at the vesting, the Mitre with the Cross is
        brought out by a Protopresbyter and an Archimandrite.

        After the Liturgy and the Molieben, the staff is brought out and given to
        the new Metropolitan **not by the old Metropolitan** but by the senior
        bishop, in that case, Archbishop John, who gives a formal ritual speech, in
        which he says, ". . . And now, O Master and Brother, accept the staff of
        pastorhip, and rise up onto the throne of hierarchical seniority. . ."

        So the idea of "passing the staff" from the old Metropolitan to the new is
        simply a myth.

        Finally, the matter is even more foolish to bring up, because Mr. Nikitin
        knows full well that three days before the Enthronization of Metropolitan
        Laurus, enemies of the Church Abroad and their henchmen **whisked the
        elderly Metropolitan Vitaly out of the Synod building and off to Canada**,
        even though he had clearly told the police just minutes before that he had
        no intention to go anywhere,-- precisely so that he would not be able to
        participate in the enthronization.




        With love in Christ,

        Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
      • jfraese
        ... Canada**, ... he had ... able to ... Was this part of the argument of the Synod that a New York judge rejected in favour of the Metropolitan s expressed
        Message 3 of 3 , Sep 8, 2002
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          > enemies of the Church Abroad and their henchmen **whisked the
          > elderly Metropolitan Vitaly out of the Synod building and off to
          Canada**,
          > even though he had clearly told the police just minutes before that
          he had
          > no intention to go anywhere,-- precisely so that he would not be
          able to
          > participate in the enthronization.

          Was this part of the argument of the Synod that a New York judge
          rejected in favour of the Metropolitan's expressed wish to go to
          Mansonville?

          I'm just curious.

          Dear Fr. Alexander, you've accused "schismatics" of "stooping" to
          discredit Metropolitan Laurus, yet there is often a defamatory
          quality to your statements about those who stand by Metropolitan
          Vitaly - who might just as easily accuse you of "stooping" to slander
          them. Perhaps we need to just continue to debate the issues without
          actually attacking the motives of those involved in the debate, and
          just assume that everyone is trying to be honest and trying get to
          the bottom of things, at least for those participating in the
          discussion on this list. Otherwise, we might as well just start
          throwing tomatoes at each other, right?

          Please forgive me if I offend. I have found this discussion to be
          very useful so far, which is the only reason I'm checking in with my
          opinion now - I'd hate to see things devolve into the
          rancorous "flame-wars" that consume many other email lists.

          Sinner, and worthy of many "flames"
          Joshua Fraese
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