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Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Fundamental Positions of the Church Abroad

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  • byakimov@csc.com.au
    Dear Vladimir I have come to the conclusion it is pointless to point out - shall we remain faithful to our mission, shall we return to Russia with the dear
    Message 1 of 2 , Aug 13, 2002
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      Dear Vladimir

      I have come to the conclusion it is pointless to point out - "shall we
      remain faithful to our mission, shall we
      return to Russia with the dear Truth that we have kept intact..." as Father
      Alexander seems
      to have the mentality of a Jesuit who believes the "means justify the end".

      He is very good at quoting out of context - even using photographs to push
      ROCA in to a pro MP pro
      ecumenism stand/camp - even though we have never been there. I am glad to
      say the majority of our ROCA clergy (including Bishops) do not share Father
      Alexander's love of taking quotes out of context & historical settings. The
      majority agree with you Vladimir on the recent quotes & misquotes - they
      want to continue to serve our Lord Jesus Christ via the Royal Path & no
      other way....

      Recently one Bishop told me that he regrets that a second "tjemnaya" was
      not applied to Father
      Alexander when the latter was a seminarian. Father Alexander & other
      seminarians on this list will know what that means.

      It seems to me Father Alexander has his own agenda which I can never share;
      unless the MP totally without
      any reservation renounces & condemns both sergianism & ecumenism. Ditches
      the modernism that has crept in
      to the mentality of many clergy( majority of MP bishops) during soviet
      times - ie some clergy have second wives or some "matushki" have a second
      husband - an MP priest.

      unworthy protodeacon Basil from Canberra






      "vkozyreff" <vladimir.kozyreff@...> on 14/08/2002 07:02:12 AM

      Please respond to orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com

      To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
      cc:
      Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Fundfamental Positions of the Church
      Abroad



      Dear Father Alexander, bless.

      Thank you for that precious information.

      I never disputed that the ROCOR was temporary, and nobody does among
      us. Our call is to become again the Russian orthodox Church inside
      Russia. I pray that this come as soon as possible.

      The question is not: "Do we understand that we will return inside
      Russia or not?"

      The question is "Shall we remain faithful to our mission, shall we
      return to Russia with the dear Truth that we have kept intact, or
      have we become tired and shall we let the Truth become corrupt under
      the fallacious pretext of brotherly love?"

      If this should be the case, we would have neither reason nor right to
      return. May God not allow this to happen.

      The strategy proposed by Vl Mark would certainly not take us back to
      Russia. Therefore, I firmly believe it is wrong. No "autonomy" from
      that "Mother Church" please.

      In God,

      Vladimir Kozyreff

      --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff" <lebedeff@w...>
      wrote:
      > Let's return to the fundamental positions of the Church Abroad.
      >
      > I) The Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia is an institution
      that is
      > **temporary**. Its temporary existense is **conditional** upon the
      > situation in Russia. Once the specific conditions that caused the
      temporary
      > independent existense of the Church Abroad are no longer valid--the
      Church
      > Abroad must dissolve itself.
      >
      > Please read carefully the following official documents (emphasis
      added):
      >
      >
      > A. The official Statutes of the Russian Church Abroad state:
      >
      > "Paragraph 1. The Russian Orthodox Church Abroad is an indissoluble
      part of
      > the Russian Orthodox Church, and **for the time until the
      extermination in
      > Russia of the atheist government,** is self-governing on conciliar
      > principles in accordance with the resolution of the Patriarch, the
      Most
      > Holy Synod, and the Highest Church Council of the Russian Church
      dated 7/20
      > November, 1920, No. 362."
      >
      > B. In its Epistle of 1933, the Sobor of Bishops of the Russian
      Orthodox
      > Church Outside of Russia stated:"All of the Church Organization
      Abroad has
      > considered in the past and considers itself up to this moment to be
      an
      > entity that is extraordinary and temporary, which must immediately
      cease to
      > exist [uprazdnitsja] **upon the reestablishment of normal life,
      both
      > general and ecclesiastical, in Russia**."
      >
      > C. The Testament of Metropolitan Anastassy: "As regards the Moscow
      > Patriarchate and its hierarchs, **for so long as they are found in
      close,
      > active, and benevolent cooperation with the Soviet regime, which
      openly
      > confesses its total-godlessness and strives to implant atheism in
      the
      > entire Russian nation,** then the Church Abroad, maintaining her
      purity,
      > must not have any canonical, prayerful, or even ordinary communion
      with
      > them whatsoever, at the same time leaving each one of them to the
      final
      > judgment of the Sobor of the future free Russian Church."
      >
      > D. In its Epistle of 1946, the Sobor of the ROCOR wrote: "The
      Higher Church
      > Administration in Russia in the person of the current Head of the
      Russian
      > Church Patriarch Alexey ["v litse nyneshniago Glavy Russkoi Tserkvi
      > Patriarkha Aleksiia"] has more than once already addressed the
      bishops
      > abroad with an exhortation to enter into canonical submission to
      the
      > Patriarchate, but, listening to the directions of our pastoral
      conscience,
      > we do not find it morally possible to acquiesce to these appeals
      **as long
      > as the Higher Church Administration in Russia is found in an
      unnatural
      > union with the atheistic power and as long as the whole Russian
      Church is
      > deprived of true freedom, which is inherent in it by its Divine
      nature**."
      > (Signed by Metropolitan Anastassy and all the Bishops of the
      Russian
      > Orthodox Church Outside of Russia and dated April 27/May 10 1946).
      >
      > 2) The Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia looks toward a
      future
      > All-Russian Council, with participation of all of the separated
      parts of
      > the Russian Church--and at which the Church Abroad will give an
      answer for
      > its actions.
      >
      >
      > Documents:
      >
      > A) The Conciliar Epistle of 1933 of Metropolitan Anthony and the
      other
      > bishops of the Church Abroad:
      >
      > "The bishops of the Church Abroad are subject to the judgement
      only of a
      > canonical All-Russian Church Council, before which they are ready
      to give
      > an account for their actions, tgether with the current Deputy Locum
      Tenens
      > of the Patriarchal Throne Metropolitan Sergius himself, who also is
      subject
      > to the judgement of such a Council."
      >
      > B) Testament of Metropolitan Anastassy: "As regards the Moscow
      Patriarchate
      > and its hierarchs, then, so long as they continue in close, active,
      and
      > benevolent co-operation with the Soviet Government, which openly
      professes
      > its complete godlessness and strives to implant atheism in the
      entire
      > Russian nation, then the Church Abroad,maintaining Her purity, must
      not
      > have any canonical, liturgical, or even simply external communion
      with them
      > whatsoever, leaving each one of them at the same time to the final
      judgment
      > of the Council (Sobor) of the future free Russian Church."
      >
      >
      > C) Epistle of the All-Diasporan Council - 1974:
      >
      > "The Moscow Patriarchate, the Catacomb Church, and the Russian
      Orthodox
      > Church Outside of Russia will all give an account for their
      activities
      > before the judgement of a future All-Russian Council."
      >
      >
      > D).
      > ROCOR Conciliar Epistle dated May 2/15 1993: "In our time-when
      Russia has
      > been flooded with all manner of Western moral and spiritual
      depravity,
      > expressed in the form of sectarian false teachings - we must fuse
      together
      > the variegated experience of the Russian Orthodox Church. In frank
      > discussion we must lay the groundwork for a free, genuine, and
      fruitful
      > All-Russian Council. Our task cannot be the judgement of our
      brothers. No,
      > our task is to seek a way to renew the one visible Russian Orthodox
      Church."
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > With love in Christ,
      >
      >
      > Prot. Alexander Lebedeff




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    • Gerald Herrin
      I have followed the many comments concerning this issue, but at this I must say the following: having known Jesuits, Fr Alexander s comments are not
      Message 2 of 2 , Aug 14, 2002
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        I have followed the many comments concerning this issue, but at this I
        must say the following: having known Jesuits, Fr Alexander's comments
        are not Jesuitical. In fact, his comments are almost uniformly most
        helpful and grounded in reality. I want to thank Fr Alexander publicly
        and let him know that I appreciate his efforts.

        In Christ,

        Isaac (Gerald) Herrin


        On Tuesday, August 13, 2002, at 05:42 PM, byakimov@... wrote:

        > Dear Vladimir
        >
        > I have come to the conclusion it is pointless to point out - "shall we
        > remain faithful to our mission, shall we
        > return to Russia with the dear Truth that we have kept intact..." as
        > Father
        > Alexander seems
        > to have the mentality of a Jesuit who believes the "means justify the
        > end".
        >
        > He is very good at quoting out of context - even using photographs to
        > push
        > ROCA in to a pro MP pro
        > ecumenism stand/camp - even though we have never been there. I am glad
        > to
        > say the majority of our ROCA clergy (including Bishops) do not share
        > Father
        > Alexander's love of taking quotes out of context & historical settings.
        > The
        > majority agree with you Vladimir on the recent quotes & misquotes - they
        > want to continue to serve our Lord Jesus Christ via the Royal Path & no
        > other way....
        >
        Gerald Herrin
        geraldherrin@...
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