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Re: Serbians versus Serbian officials

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  • pcarp88
    Vladimir, I object your Honor! I don t agree with the tone of some forum members who by virtue of their hot headyness believe they are *just* in condemning
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 9 5:12 AM
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      Vladimir,
      I object your Honor! I don't agree with the tone of some forum
      members who by virtue of their hot headyness believe they are *just*
      in condemning other members who may *appear* to fault short of
      following the canons of the church in their dialogue. Father L. may
      be guilty of the same.

      My point is ..."The words from the lips of a wise man are gracious"
      (Eccl. 10:2)


      Nicolai from NY



      --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "vkozyreff" <vladimir.kozyreff@s...>
      wrote:
      > Dear List,
      >
      > I totally agree with Nicolai that forms should be respected. I
      > disagree however when he speaks about personal attacks. I do not
      see
      > any in Michael Nikitin's post.
      >
      > Father Alexander tone too was brisk ("the ultra-fanatical fringe
      > would consider St. Mark's travel to Florence/Ferrara in order to
      > dialogue with the Roman Catholics to be a betrayal of Orthodoxy").
      >
      > One may understand Michael Nikitin's comments on Father Alexander's
      > position, which is (who would deny it) always lenient about
      > ecumenism, and which is unexpected in the orthodox Church. In our
      > days, it seems that taking into account the canons and anathemas
      > makes you a fanatic. You refer to a court of law. Would such a
      court
      > accept that respecting the law is being part of the ultra-fanatical
      > fringe?
      >
      > Even if one may dispute the tone used, Michael Nikitin's
      contribution
      > looks important and positive, in this particular case.
      >
      > As you say, we need priests. We need believers as well. Lay people
      > too are the guarantors of the faith. "Neither the hierarchy nor
      > councils could ever introduce novelty, since with us the guardian
      of
      > piety and faith is the very Body of the Church, i.e., the people
      > themselves." (Encyclical Letter of the Eastern Patriarchs to the
      > Roman Pope in 1848.)
      >
      > I hope that father Alexander will forgive me and I beg his prayers.
      >
      > In God,
      >
      > Vladimir Kozyreff
      >
      > --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "pcarp88" <pcarp88@y...> wrote:
      > > Dear Brother Michael,
      > >
      > > The smoke seems to be rising in the debate over St. Mark, and
      your
      > > comments regarding the integrity of Father L. …"Fr.Alexander.
      You
      > > are a priest behave like one" & "how can Fr.Alexander say these
      > > heretical statements and give spiritual advice to his
      > > faithful,"…….....would be objectionable in a court of law because
      > > they are personal attacks. How would you react to someone who
      told
      > > you, "You're an ORTHODOX LIST member so behave like one!"?
      > >
      > > If we had enough "unworthy" priests left around the world to
      serve
      > in
      > > our churches, some of our faithful would not need to travel hours
      > to
      > > attend services.
      > >
      > > Nicolai from NY
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "Michael Nikitin" <mikeniki@h...>
      wrote:
      > > > Absolutely incorrect Fr.Alexander. Stop with these heretical
      > > insinuations
      > > > Fr.Alexander. You are a priest behave like one.
      > > >
      > > > If Fr.Alexander read the History he would have known that St.
      > Mark
      > > of
      > > > Ephesus did not pray with the heretics.
      > > >
      > > > I am surprised(I really shouldn't since he's been doing it
      > > regularly to
      > > > promote his agenda of ecumenism) that Fr.Alexander has the
      > audacity
      > > to
      > > > slander our Saints.
      > > >
      > > > How can Fr.Alexander say these heretical statements and give
      > > spiritual
      > > > advice to his faithful.
      > > >
      > > > At the time of St. Mark the Roman Catholics had the triple
      > > immersion and not
      > > > much had changed as to baptism except they didn't have grace
      > being
      > > > Anathematised. Chrismation was given as economia to impart
      grace.
      > > > Now the Roman Catholics don't have triple immersion and the
      > baptism
      > > has
      > > > changed to the point that ROCOR baptises them.
      > > >
      > > > Michael N.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > From: "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff" <lebedeff@w...>
      > > > Reply-To: orthodox-synod@y...
      > > > To: orthodox-synod@y...
      > > > Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Serbians versus Serbian officials
      > > > Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 10:37:56 -0700
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Blessed is our God!
      > > > >Yes, it would seem that Blessed Mark of Ephesus would be
      > > considerd
      > > > >heretical as measured by the standards of those who are more
      > > Orthodox than
      > > > >the Church!
      > > > >En Xto,
      > > > >+Emanuel
      > > >
      > > > Actually, this is absolutely correct.
      > > >
      > > > First of all, the ultra-fanatical fringe would consider St.
      > Mark's
      > > travelto
      > > > Florence/Ferrara in order to dialogue with the Roman Catholics
      to
      > > be a
      > > > betrayal of Orthodoxy.
      > > >
      > > > Secondly, since every session of the Council opened with a
      joint
      > > prayer,
      > > > St. Mark must be considered to be a betrayer of Orthodoxy for
      > > participating
      > > > (or even being present).
      > > >
      > > > Thirdly, they would claim that the language of respect used by
      > St.
      > > Mark
      > > > towards the Pope and other Roman Catholic Prelates during the
      > > > Council (Holy Father, esteemed Brethren in Christ, etc.) to be
      a
      > > betrayal
      > > > of Orthodoxy.
      > > >
      > > > And, finally, they would consider the Encyclical that St. Mark
      > that
      > > he
      > > > penned after the Council, in which he states that Roman
      Catholics
      > > who
      > > > become Orthodox must be received by **Chrismation** (not
      Baptism)
      > > to be a
      > > > betrayal of Orthodoxy.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > With love in Christ,
      > > >
      > > > Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      _________________________________________________________________
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