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Re: Vladyka Alypy

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  • vkozyreff
    Dear Hristofor, Let us unite in Christ. If you allow me to say so, a document is valuable if it reflects the truth, even if I do not like it. A document is
    Message 1 of 26 , Jul 31, 2002
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      Dear Hristofor,

      Let us unite in Christ.

      If you allow me to say so, a document is valuable if it reflects the
      truth, even if I do not like it. A document is valuable in itself,
      not for party A or B, as there is only one truth, common to all.

      It is your right to exert your judgement and to check that the
      document is true, but your conclusions are just tentative at this
      point. I hope clearer evidence will come about.

      The only question is to know whether the document is true or not. I
      want only the truth, and I hope that it will manifest itself,
      whatever it is. We need the truth, not to condemn, but to pardon one
      another.

      Schism is never caused by the truth. The Devil is the Liar. If the
      truth is concealed, we will all suffer from this. We will all become
      less Christian and will all become even more separated from one
      another. This certainly not God's will.

      In our Church, nobody can remain indifferent to an injustice if it
      did take place. None of us may just say "it is a matter between Paul
      and Peter". If an injustice did take place, we are all responsible of
      it. We must all see to it that it is resolved. We are all in
      communion and each of us suffers spiritually from any injustices that
      is committed among us. An injustice committed by Paul to Peter is
      committed to me, to John and to you as well.

      I must confess that I am writing from a French speaking country. God
      created that land and loves it. He also loves the unworthy Russians
      that live there in exile, besieged by the Liar, as we all have been
      for some time now. Some of them have been persecuted for their faith.
      I pray God from there that He restore unity among us and hear our
      voices from the abysses in which we have fallen.

      I am sure that you will join me in this prayer. What is impossible to
      man is possible to God.

      In Christ,

      Vladimir Kozyreff

      --- In orthodox-synod@y..., Hristofor <hristofor@m...> wrote:
      > At 11:44 AM 7/30/2002, you wrote:
      > >Thank you very much, Katherine, this is a very valuable document.
      > > --- Katherine Landsberg <klandsberg@y...> a ecrit : > In
      response
      > > to the question of Valentina, I am posting the attached .pdf
      file, which
      > > is a copy of Vladika Alypy's original letter in Russian.
      >
      > Valuable document? Why? More fodder for those who wish to cause
      more schism
      > in the ROCOR? For shame! Kak Vam ne stydno! If I recall correctly,
      the
      > letter was not posted to the list by Vladyka Alypy, nor was it even
      given
      > by Vladyka Alypy to someone to post to the list; it came from
      a "helpful
      > parishioner". Does anyone who contributes to the list know if
      Vladyka Alypy
      > indeed wrote the letter? The letter is strange, to say the least,
      but 2
      > things stick out as extremely bizarre:
      >
      > 1) 'But let no one think that all this came about as if by magic!"
      > Would a clergyman (and a bishop no less) really use such a phrase
      as this?
      > Magic? Would he not say "But let no one think that all this came
      about by
      > itself!"
      >
      > 2) "When I learned of this deceitful plot, there was nothing else I
      could
      > do,except turn to a secular lawyer and threaten to bring a lawsuit
      for
      > slander."
      > Threaten to bring a lawsuit for slander? As we all know, St John of
      > Shanghai and SF was much-aligned during his life. I don't recall
      ever
      > reading that he turned to a secular lawyer to defend his name!!!
      >
      > That being said, if Vl. Alypy is fully cognizant and did indeed pen
      the
      > letter, then it is an issue between him, the Metropolitan, the
      other
      > bishops and Fr Pablo. I don't think it is a matter to be tried on
      the
      > Internet and certainly not to be collected as a "valuable document!"
      >
      > Hristofor
      >
      > PS I could not help but notice that the poster of the Russian
      version of
      > the letter, in replying to the original request, inadvertently
      disclosed
      > that she was posting from a Francophone country (France? Belgium?
      > Quebec?.... Hmm, not too many ROCA parishes in those lands), since
      her
      > e-mail program added "a écrit" in the reply (which is the
      equivalent to
      > "you wrote" when you reply to an e-mail.) I guess that answers it:
      for
      > members of the Varnavite schism, Vl Alypy's letter would indeed be
      a
      > valuable document....
    • byakimov@csc.com.au
      Dear Vladimir Well said !!!! protodeacon Basil from Canberra vkozyreff on 01/08/2002 07:27:35 AM Please respond to
      Message 2 of 26 , Jul 31, 2002
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        Dear Vladimir

        Well said !!!!

        protodeacon Basil from Canberra




        "vkozyreff" <vladimir.kozyreff@...> on 01/08/2002 07:27:35 AM

        Please respond to orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com

        To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        cc:
        Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Vladyka Alypy


        Dear Hristofor,

        Let us unite in Christ.

        If you allow me to say so, a document is valuable if it reflects the
        truth, even if I do not like it. A document is valuable in itself,
        not for party A or B, as there is only one truth, common to all.

        It is your right to exert your judgement and to check that the
        document is true, but your conclusions are just tentative at this
        point. I hope clearer evidence will come about.

        The only question is to know whether the document is true or not. I
        want only the truth, and I hope that it will manifest itself,
        whatever it is. We need the truth, not to condemn, but to pardon one
        another.

        Schism is never caused by the truth. The Devil is the Liar. If the
        truth is concealed, we will all suffer from this. We will all become
        less Christian and will all become even more separated from one
        another. This certainly not God's will.

        In our Church, nobody can remain indifferent to an injustice if it
        did take place. None of us may just say "it is a matter between Paul
        and Peter". If an injustice did take place, we are all responsible of
        it. We must all see to it that it is resolved. We are all in
        communion and each of us suffers spiritually from any injustices that
        is committed among us. An injustice committed by Paul to Peter is
        committed to me, to John and to you as well.

        I must confess that I am writing from a French speaking country. God
        created that land and loves it. He also loves the unworthy Russians
        that live there in exile, besieged by the Liar, as we all have been
        for some time now. Some of them have been persecuted for their faith.
        I pray God from there that He restore unity among us and hear our
        voices from the abysses in which we have fallen.

        I am sure that you will join me in this prayer. What is impossible to
        man is possible to God.

        In Christ,

        Vladimir Kozyreff

        --- In orthodox-synod@y..., Hristofor <hristofor@m...> wrote:
        > At 11:44 AM 7/30/2002, you wrote:
        > >Thank you very much, Katherine, this is a very valuable document.
        > > --- Katherine Landsberg <klandsberg@y...> a ecrit : > In
        response
        > > to the question of Valentina, I am posting the attached .pdf
        file, which
        > > is a copy of Vladika Alypy's original letter in Russian.
        >
        > Valuable document? Why? More fodder for those who wish to cause
        more schism
        > in the ROCOR? For shame! Kak Vam ne stydno! If I recall correctly,
        the
        > letter was not posted to the list by Vladyka Alypy, nor was it even
        given
        > by Vladyka Alypy to someone to post to the list; it came from
        a "helpful
        > parishioner". Does anyone who contributes to the list know if
        Vladyka Alypy
        > indeed wrote the letter? The letter is strange, to say the least,
        but 2
        > things stick out as extremely bizarre:
        >
        > 1) 'But let no one think that all this came about as if by magic!"
        > Would a clergyman (and a bishop no less) really use such a phrase
        as this?
        > Magic? Would he not say "But let no one think that all this came
        about by
        > itself!"
        >
        > 2) "When I learned of this deceitful plot, there was nothing else I
        could
        > do,except turn to a secular lawyer and threaten to bring a lawsuit
        for
        > slander."
        > Threaten to bring a lawsuit for slander? As we all know, St John of
        > Shanghai and SF was much-aligned during his life. I don't recall
        ever
        > reading that he turned to a secular lawyer to defend his name!!!
        >
        > That being said, if Vl. Alypy is fully cognizant and did indeed pen
        the
        > letter, then it is an issue between him, the Metropolitan, the
        other
        > bishops and Fr Pablo. I don't think it is a matter to be tried on
        the
        > Internet and certainly not to be collected as a "valuable document!"
        >
        > Hristofor
        >
        > PS I could not help but notice that the poster of the Russian
        version of
        > the letter, in replying to the original request, inadvertently
        disclosed
        > that she was posting from a Francophone country (France? Belgium?
        > Quebec?.... Hmm, not too many ROCA parishes in those lands), since
        her
        > e-mail program added "a écrit" in the reply (which is the
        equivalent to
        > "you wrote" when you reply to an e-mail.) I guess that answers it:
        for
        > members of the Varnavite schism, Vl Alypy's letter would indeed be
        a
        > valuable document....



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      • klandsberg
        Dear in Christ Hristofor! Thank you for your concern regarding Vladika s privacy. For the sake of clarity, I would like to address some of your concerns: 1. I
        Message 3 of 26 , Jul 31, 2002
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          Dear in Christ Hristofor!
          Thank you for your concern regarding Vladika's privacy. For the sake
          of clarity, I would like to address some of your concerns:
          1. I am not from a francophone country. I am from Chicago. Perhaps
          Valentina is from a francophone country. If you look closely, you
          will see that those French words showed up in her message, not in
          mine.
          2. I agree with you that the statement "This is a very valuable
          document," is a little upsetting. It did not sit well with me
          either. However, for the time being, I am giving Valentina the
          benefit of the doubt that English is not her first language, since
          she appears to be from a francophone country.
          3. I guarantee without a shadow of a doubt that Vladika Alypy wrote
          this letter. If you don't believe me, you can call Vladika and ask
          him. If you are too shy to do this, please ask your parish priest to
          do it.
          4. Regarding the prudence of posting this letter in an open forum on
          the Internet, I deliberated for a long time before doing it. The
          Internet is already being used to disseminate false information about
          Vladika's condition (not on this list, but through other means). I
          did not post the letter to give ammunition to those who would use it
          to further some unsound anti-ROCOR agenda. I posted it in the hope
          of combatting false information which is already in circulation. If
          you did not receive this false information, then you don't know what
          I am talking about. However, there are many on this list who _do_
          know what I am talking about. Furthermore, I only posted the Russian
          version of what had already been made public.
          5. Regarding the actual substance of the letter, I chose to let it
          speak for itself, rather than add my commentary. If you would like
          me to comment on it, Hristofor, please feel free to e-mail me
          privately. If you choose to do this, please identify yourself, since
          you have my first and last name, and I do not have yours.

          6. Regarding your words:
          >
          > That being said, if Vl. Alypy is fully cognizant and did indeed pen
          the
          > letter, then it is an issue between him, the Metropolitan, the
          other
          > bishops and Fr Pablo. I don't think it is a matter to be tried on
          the
          > Internet and certainly not to be collected as a "valuable document!"

          The fact that you write "if Vl. Alypy is fully cognizant" shows me
          that enough damage has already been done to his reputation to warrant
          the posting of this document. I agree with you that it is not a
          matter to be tried on the Internet. That is why I urge anyone who is
          concerned about Vladika to (1) pray for his full recovery, (2) call
          him directly, or ask your parish priest to call him if you feel it is
          not your place, and (3) send him a card letting him know that you are
          praying for him. As you can imagine, this is a time of great stress
          for him, but the prayers and well-wishes of the faithful are, I am
          sure, a great comfort.

          Please also remember our parish in your prayers, as this is a time of
          great anxiety for all of us. And if you feel that my posting this
          was a mistake, please pray that God forgive me for such an error.

          With Love in Christ,
          Katya
        • Fr. Alexander Lebedeff
          I would like to make some comments on this situation, which is causing a great deal of controversy and confusion among the faithful. First of all, I must state
          Message 4 of 26 , Aug 1, 2002
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            I would like to make some comments on this situation, which is causing a
            great deal of controversy and confusion among the faithful.

            First of all, I must state that I know Archbishop Alypy for almost forty
            years and have always been very devoted to him. When I was a Seminarian, I
            used to accompany Fr. Alypy every weekend to the parish in Schenectady,
            which he served, to read and sing (and conduct the choir). Later, we were
            graduate students together at Norwich University for several summers.

            Just before the tragic accident, I had come to Chicago as the guest speaker
            at the Pastoral Conference of the Chicago Archdiocese and spent several
            days with Archbishop Alypy while participating in the Conference and while
            present at the Diocesan Council meeting that followed.

            Regarding his current situation, I believe it is necessary to understand
            the physical and emotional trauma that Archbishop Alypy is going through.
            Although an exemplary monk and spiritual leader, Archbishop Alypy is not
            exempt from the natural human emotions that going through such a tragedy
            bring forth. The classic stages of denial, anger, and depression on the
            path to final acceptance must all be gone through, especially since the
            accident was clearly one that resulted from a personal choice made by
            Archbishop Alypy, who himself decided that he would climb a twelve-foot
            ladder with a saw in order to clear some branches--not a normal task for a
            seventy-five year old Archbishop. When one adds to this the fact that
            Archbishop Alypy, having fallen on his head onto concrete from a
            twelve-foot height, suffered a major concussion with all of the physical
            consequences of that head trauma, then the situation becomes even more
            complicated. And, finally, one must remember that Archbishop Alypy, who had
            always been a fiercely independent person, who always took care of his own
            needs, now, being semi-paralyzed from the waist down, must suffer the
            required personal care performed by others.

            All this has, undoubtedly, affected him, as it would every one of us in a
            similar situation.

            What is clear is that a person in such a vulnerable emotional state is
            particularly susceptible to influence. Certain individuals, among them some
            that Archbishop Alypy had perviously removed from all parish
            responsibilites began to visit him and to persuade him that he should not
            trust the clergy that had been taking care of him, that they were
            attempting to remove him and take over, and that the clergy were preventing
            the Archbishop from returning to his home.

            These individuals were able to influence Archbishop Alypy to the point that
            he signed a document appointing some lay person as his personal
            Representative for Health Care, and removing all of the clergy that had
            been involved in his care previously from being involved in any decisions
            regarding his care, or even receiving reports about his medical condition.

            A certain clergyman who had been officially suspended for serious issues,
            came to Archbishop Alypy and was able to get him to sign a document that
            this clergyman had prepared reversing the suspension.

            It should be noted that Metropolitan Laurus personally visited Archbishop
            Alypy to express his prayers and support, and to better understand his
            condition. Metropolitan Laurus knows Archbishop Alypy for almost 60 years,
            so there is no one who knows him better.

            Metropolitan Laurus expressed his observations to the Synod of Bishops--he
            noticed that Archbishop Alypy demonstrated signs of short-term memory loss
            and some confusion--he would repeat himself and would forget what he had
            just said.

            In order to better understand Archbishop Alypy's condition, the Synod
            decided on a prudent course--to have an assessment made by an independent
            team of neurologists and other medical experts as to the condition, the
            course of further treatment required and the final prognosis. This medical
            team also evaluated the suitability of the Archbishop's residence on Lee
            Street for someone in his condition.

            It was the assessment of the medical commission that Archbishop Alypy
            required more extensive medical care than that which could be provided at
            his home, and that the residence was not the best place for him to be.

            This is actually supported in the Letter of Archbishop Alypy, in which he
            describes how he, upon his return to the residence against the advice of
            this medical condition, had to be carried up and down stairs in a wheel
            chair, which was a grave danger to himself, as well as those carrying him.
            What would have happened if someone carrying him slipped or lost his grip?
            There individuals, in fact, placed him in mortal danger--certainly not the
            best care that he could be given.

            Many people who have written on this issue seem not to understand the
            established procedure in the Orthodox Church (in particular, the Statutes
            of the Russian Orthodox Church) regarding what must be done in the case of
            the incapacity of a Ruling Bishop.

            The Statutes require that in the case of a Ruling Bishop being
            incapacitated for longer than two months, the Synod must appoint another
            Bishop to have responsibility for the administration of the Diocese. The
            Synod also, typically appoints a senior priest in the Diocese to be the
            temporary administrator of the Diocese to manage the day to day affairs
            that do not require episcopal intervention.

            If the incapacity continues for six months or more, the Synod has the
            authority to retire the Ruling Bishop for health reasons and appoint another.

            And, contrary to what some may have understood, incapacity in the eyes of
            the Church does not mean unconciousness or mental disability, in addition
            to severe physical disability. It means, simply, being unable to perform
            the duties of a Ruling Bishop--among which a primary one is the ability to
            serve Liturgy, without which the bishop cannot perform ordinations.

            Very simply, a bishop who cannot serve Divine Liturgy **cannot**, by Church
            rules, continue to be a Ruling Bishop, no matter how clear his head may be.

            This situation was also the same in the case of Metropolitan Vitaly, who,
            for reasons of health, was unable to serve Divine Liturgy for a period of
            two or three years before his retirement.

            In the case of Archbishop Alypy, the appointment by the Synod of Fr. Pablo
            Iwasciewiec as Diocesan Administrator was completely canonical, and, in
            fact, required by the Statutes. It was in no way an attempt by Bishop
            Gabriel or Fr. Pablo to "take over the Diocese" or to "get rid of
            Archbsihop Alypy,"--simply a statutory administrative requirement, one
            which Archbishop Alypy knew about and had seen being executed in other
            dioceses many times over the past decades.

            The Letter of Archbishop Alypy that has been recently posted to the
            Internet is troublesome on many levels.

            I know Archbishop Alypy well, and I am convinced that Archbishop Alypy, if
            he were not in a vulnerable emotional state caused by his physical
            disability, would never have written such a letter.

            He has always been a most obedient monastic and totally loyal to the Synod
            of Bishops and he would never have threatened legal action against it.

            He would never allow anyone in the parish to see or receive copies of a
            letter that he sent to the Synod of Bishops complaining of any perceived
            injustice being done to him. He would consider such problems as being
            solely between him and his brother bishops--and not something that was to
            be brought out into the forum of public opinion.

            For this reason, the letter itself is a convincing testament to the fragile
            emotional state of Archbishop Alypy.

            If he was "helped" to write this letter by others, then he is clearly
            susceptible to their influence. Even if he himself, when asked, states that
            this letter is genuine, this cannot, in such a case, be accepted as a true
            validation.

            If he wrote it himself, then this proves that his emotional state is even
            more vulnerable, since he, in his normal pre-trauma state, would never have
            dreamed of writing a letter attacking his Synod, his fellow bishops, his
            own clergy, threatening legal action, and, especially, violating the
            confidentiality of inter-episcopal communication, allowing this letter to
            be disseminated among the flock.

            With love in Christ,

            Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
          • byakimov@csc.com.au
            Father Alexander I am afraid we in ROCA have not always treated our ailing Bishops with love & respect they deserve. Some career minded Fathers have always
            Message 5 of 26 , Aug 1, 2002
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              Father Alexander

              I am afraid we in ROCA have not always treated our ailing Bishops with love
              & respect they
              deserve. Some career minded Fathers have always managed to take advantage
              of the
              particular medical condition a Bishop was/is suffering. This goes for our
              Diocese in
              Australia too. In any case the letter posted by Father John Shaw esewhere
              supports the stance of Vladika
              Alypy and contradicts most of your statement.

              It is indeed diffucult & sad times we are living through. I hope & pray
              that Vladika Alypy will get better
              and be able to continue with his Diocesan duties.

              We all should pray for his complete recovery. Lord have mercy on all of us!

              unworthy protodeacon Basil from Canberra.





              "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff" <lebedeff@...> on 02/08/2002 01:06:32 AM

              Please respond to orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com

              To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
              cc:
              Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Vladyka Alypy


              I would like to make some comments on this situation, which is causing a
              great deal of controversy and confusion among the faithful.

              First of all, I must state that I know Archbishop Alypy for almost forty
              years and have always been very devoted to him. When I was a Seminarian, I
              used to accompany Fr. Alypy every weekend to the parish in Schenectady,
              which he served, to read and sing (and conduct the choir). Later, we were
              graduate students together at Norwich University for several summers.

              Just before the tragic accident, I had come to Chicago as the guest speaker
              at the Pastoral Conference of the Chicago Archdiocese and spent several
              days with Archbishop Alypy while participating in the Conference and while
              present at the Diocesan Council meeting that followed.

              Regarding his current situation, I believe it is necessary to understand
              the physical and emotional trauma that Archbishop Alypy is going through.
              Although an exemplary monk and spiritual leader, Archbishop Alypy is not
              exempt from the natural human emotions that going through such a tragedy
              bring forth. The classic stages of denial, anger, and depression on the
              path to final acceptance must all be gone through, especially since the
              accident was clearly one that resulted from a personal choice made by
              Archbishop Alypy, who himself decided that he would climb a twelve-foot
              ladder with a saw in order to clear some branches--not a normal task for a
              seventy-five year old Archbishop. When one adds to this the fact that
              Archbishop Alypy, having fallen on his head onto concrete from a
              twelve-foot height, suffered a major concussion with all of the physical
              consequences of that head trauma, then the situation becomes even more
              complicated. And, finally, one must remember that Archbishop Alypy, who had
              always been a fiercely independent person, who always took care of his own
              needs, now, being semi-paralyzed from the waist down, must suffer the
              required personal care performed by others.

              All this has, undoubtedly, affected him, as it would every one of us in a
              similar situation.

              What is clear is that a person in such a vulnerable emotional state is
              particularly susceptible to influence. Certain individuals, among them some
              that Archbishop Alypy had perviously removed from all parish
              responsibilites began to visit him and to persuade him that he should not
              trust the clergy that had been taking care of him, that they were
              attempting to remove him and take over, and that the clergy were preventing
              the Archbishop from returning to his home.

              These individuals were able to influence Archbishop Alypy to the point that
              he signed a document appointing some lay person as his personal
              Representative for Health Care, and removing all of the clergy that had
              been involved in his care previously from being involved in any decisions
              regarding his care, or even receiving reports about his medical condition.

              A certain clergyman who had been officially suspended for serious issues,
              came to Archbishop Alypy and was able to get him to sign a document that
              this clergyman had prepared reversing the suspension.

              It should be noted that Metropolitan Laurus personally visited Archbishop
              Alypy to express his prayers and support, and to better understand his
              condition. Metropolitan Laurus knows Archbishop Alypy for almost 60 years,
              so there is no one who knows him better.

              Metropolitan Laurus expressed his observations to the Synod of Bishops--he
              noticed that Archbishop Alypy demonstrated signs of short-term memory loss
              and some confusion--he would repeat himself and would forget what he had
              just said.

              In order to better understand Archbishop Alypy's condition, the Synod
              decided on a prudent course--to have an assessment made by an independent
              team of neurologists and other medical experts as to the condition, the
              course of further treatment required and the final prognosis. This medical
              team also evaluated the suitability of the Archbishop's residence on Lee
              Street for someone in his condition.

              It was the assessment of the medical commission that Archbishop Alypy
              required more extensive medical care than that which could be provided at
              his home, and that the residence was not the best place for him to be.

              This is actually supported in the Letter of Archbishop Alypy, in which he
              describes how he, upon his return to the residence against the advice of
              this medical condition, had to be carried up and down stairs in a wheel
              chair, which was a grave danger to himself, as well as those carrying him.
              What would have happened if someone carrying him slipped or lost his grip?
              There individuals, in fact, placed him in mortal danger--certainly not the
              best care that he could be given.

              Many people who have written on this issue seem not to understand the
              established procedure in the Orthodox Church (in particular, the Statutes
              of the Russian Orthodox Church) regarding what must be done in the case of
              the incapacity of a Ruling Bishop.

              The Statutes require that in the case of a Ruling Bishop being
              incapacitated for longer than two months, the Synod must appoint another
              Bishop to have responsibility for the administration of the Diocese. The
              Synod also, typically appoints a senior priest in the Diocese to be the
              temporary administrator of the Diocese to manage the day to day affairs
              that do not require episcopal intervention.

              If the incapacity continues for six months or more, the Synod has the
              authority to retire the Ruling Bishop for health reasons and appoint
              another.

              And, contrary to what some may have understood, incapacity in the eyes of
              the Church does not mean unconciousness or mental disability, in addition
              to severe physical disability. It means, simply, being unable to perform
              the duties of a Ruling Bishop--among which a primary one is the ability to
              serve Liturgy, without which the bishop cannot perform ordinations.

              Very simply, a bishop who cannot serve Divine Liturgy **cannot**, by Church
              rules, continue to be a Ruling Bishop, no matter how clear his head may be.

              This situation was also the same in the case of Metropolitan Vitaly, who,
              for reasons of health, was unable to serve Divine Liturgy for a period of
              two or three years before his retirement.

              In the case of Archbishop Alypy, the appointment by the Synod of Fr. Pablo
              Iwasciewiec as Diocesan Administrator was completely canonical, and, in
              fact, required by the Statutes. It was in no way an attempt by Bishop
              Gabriel or Fr. Pablo to "take over the Diocese" or to "get rid of
              Archbsihop Alypy,"--simply a statutory administrative requirement, one
              which Archbishop Alypy knew about and had seen being executed in other
              dioceses many times over the past decades.

              The Letter of Archbishop Alypy that has been recently posted to the
              Internet is troublesome on many levels.

              I know Archbishop Alypy well, and I am convinced that Archbishop Alypy, if
              he were not in a vulnerable emotional state caused by his physical
              disability, would never have written such a letter.

              He has always been a most obedient monastic and totally loyal to the Synod
              of Bishops and he would never have threatened legal action against it.

              He would never allow anyone in the parish to see or receive copies of a
              letter that he sent to the Synod of Bishops complaining of any perceived
              injustice being done to him. He would consider such problems as being
              solely between him and his brother bishops--and not something that was to
              be brought out into the forum of public opinion.

              For this reason, the letter itself is a convincing testament to the fragile
              emotional state of Archbishop Alypy.

              If he was "helped" to write this letter by others, then he is clearly
              susceptible to their influence. Even if he himself, when asked, states that
              this letter is genuine, this cannot, in such a case, be accepted as a true
              validation.

              If he wrote it himself, then this proves that his emotional state is even
              more vulnerable, since he, in his normal pre-trauma state, would never have
              dreamed of writing a letter attacking his Synod, his fellow bishops, his
              own clergy, threatening legal action, and, especially, violating the
              confidentiality of inter-episcopal communication, allowing this letter to
              be disseminated among the flock.

              With love in Christ,

              Prot. Alexander Lebedeff






              Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod



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            • kyracash@aol.com
              I agree with you totally. This should never have been brought to everyone s eyes so that everyone can sin. I originally posted the letter Vladika had
              Message 6 of 26 , Aug 5, 2002
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                I agree with you totally. This should never have been brought to everyone's
                eyes so that everyone can sin. I originally posted the letter Vladika had
                translated into English because he wanted everyone to know. Instead, why he
                couldn't sit down with Father Paul. After all, isn't he the Bishop. Instead
                everyone is now falling into sin, taking sides, saying nasty things to each
                other. I am no longer regularly attending the church because of all the
                hatred. Bishop has turned aagainst Bishop, Priest against priest, parishoner
                against parishoner. Now maybe you can undrstand why I would not want to be
                led by a Bishop and priest that cause me to fall into sin and choose sides on
                their behalf. I choose the side of Christ and will pray for them all at a
                Greek church. When I heard the Bishop calling a rally against Father Paul
                and Father Paul was out of town and could not defend himself and then a week
                prior Father Paul said Vladika was saying wrong things about him it saddened
                me that who I sought once for spiritual advice were now blind to their own
                desires and egos.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Margaret Lark
                From: kyracash@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 14:02:39 EDT ... Well, kiddo.... If you can handle being told that the fast is man-made and that it s
                Message 7 of 26 , Aug 5, 2002
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                  From: kyracash@...
                  Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 14:02:39 EDT

                  >....I would not want to be
                  >led by a Bishop and priest that cause me to fall into sin and choose sides on
                  >their behalf. I choose the side of Christ and will pray for them all at a
                  >Greek church....

                  Well, kiddo....

                  If you can handle being told that the fast is "man-made" and that it's sufficient to observe it by fasting from meat only, or even that we should just fast on Wednesdays and Fridays - during Great Lent, let alone the Dormition fast - or March 25 dinner-dances, complete with roast lamb.... Hey, be my guest. After 11 years, I've had enough, and am affiliating with ROCOR.

                  As for the sniping and back-biting - I've come to see, that's human nature. Greeks are NOT immune. We all fall, we all struggle to get up, we all fall again, we all struggle to get up again. Thanks be to God that He is there to help us when we try to get up again.

                  --
                  In Christ,
                  Margaret the sinner

                  Glory to God for all things!
                  --
                • pcarp88
                  As a brand new ROCOR forum member, I don t know who Father Paul is or the ruling Bishop is or what the circumstances of the conflict between them that you are
                  Message 8 of 26 , Aug 6, 2002
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                    As a brand new ROCOR forum member, I don't know who Father Paul is or
                    the ruling Bishop is or what the circumstances of the conflict
                    between them that you are describing entail. But I do know this, all
                    Bishops, Priests, Monastics, and Parishioners "fall into sin". So
                    why is it that you've decided to attend a Greek Church?

                    "For when a man is piously disposed towards the Priest, he is much
                    more towards God. And even if the Priest be wicked, God seeing that
                    thou respectest him, though unworthy of honor, through reverence to
                    Him, will Himself reward thee. For if `he that receiveth a prophet
                    in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward' (Matt. X.
                    41); then he who honoreth and submitteth and giveth way to the Priest
                    shall certainly be rewarded." St. John Chrysostom, Homily II (2
                    Timothy i. 8-10), p 481, from The Nicene and Post Nicene Fathers,
                    Volume XIII, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids
                    Michigan. Reprinted July 1979. Available from the Holy Trinity
                    Monastery Book Store, Jordanville, N.Y.


                    --- In orthodox-synod@y..., kyracash@a... wrote:
                    > I agree with you totally. This should never have been brought to
                    everyone's
                    > eyes so that everyone can sin. I originally posted the letter
                    Vladika had
                    > translated into English because he wanted everyone to know.
                    Instead, why he
                    > couldn't sit down with Father Paul. After all, isn't he the
                    Bishop. Instead
                    > everyone is now falling into sin, taking sides, saying nasty things
                    to each
                    > other. I am no longer regularly attending the church because of
                    all the
                    > hatred. Bishop has turned aagainst Bishop, Priest against priest,
                    parishoner
                    > against parishoner. Now maybe you can undrstand why I would not
                    want to be
                    > led by a Bishop and priest that cause me to fall into sin and
                    choose sides on
                    > their behalf. I choose the side of Christ and will pray for them
                    all at a
                    > Greek church. When I heard the Bishop calling a rally against
                    Father Paul
                    > and Father Paul was out of town and could not defend himself and
                    then a week
                    > prior Father Paul said Vladika was saying wrong things about him it
                    saddened
                    > me that who I sought once for spiritual advice were now blind to
                    their own
                    > desires and egos.
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • szmyte
                    I am deeply appalled at the current state of affairs in my parish, the Holy Virgin Protection Cathedral in Chicago, Illinois. Unfortunately, I find Reverend
                    Message 9 of 26 , Aug 7, 2002
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                      I am deeply appalled at the current state of affairs in my parish,
                      the Holy Virgin Protection Cathedral in Chicago, Illinois.
                      Unfortunately, I find Reverend Father Alexander Lebedeff's letter to
                      be of little consolation, and, on the contrary, more of a
                      contribution to the controversy and confusion among the faithful.

                      Father Alexander's letter is quite persuasively written, if one were
                      to accept the premise that Archbishop Alypy is of questionable mental
                      health. This seems to be the foundation of Father's commentary.
                      This view is presented early in the letter with a tone imploring the
                      reader – ironically enough – to show compassion and empathize: "…it
                      is necessary to understand the physical and emotional trauma that
                      Archbishop Alypy is going through." Father continues to hint at this
                      dubious state of mind by suggesting that sawing branches at seventy-
                      five shows poor judgement. This comes despite the later
                      acknowledgement (to contrast how distraught Vladyka must feel now)
                      that Vladyka was always fiercely independent and took care of his own
                      needs. This theme is carried throughout the letter, ultimately
                      degrading into the suggestion that parishioners are influencing our
                      Archbishop and finally knotting itself into a tautology, in which any
                      action by Vladyka Alypy can be construed as proof of emotional
                      imbalance.

                      Apparently the only sane choice Vladyka was expected to make would
                      have been to allow questionable (certainly not compassionate,
                      disputably empathetic, allegedly illegal) behavior to continue
                      unanswered. As for the way in which Vladyka expressed this, I can
                      only say that in my shock over reading our Archbishop's letter, I
                      recalled the shocking manner in which our Lord Jesus Christ dealt
                      with deplorable behavior at the temple. In light of this, there may
                      be a case for such a method to expose shameless conduct. I, myself,
                      am weary of such comparisons and the objections some may have to
                      them, but if I can clarify…What type of conduct is there at our
                      temple? As an example, on 4 August 2002, armed police were summoned
                      into our temple during Divine Liturgy in accordance with restraining
                      orders placed on parishioners during this "temporary
                      administration". If this is a sign of things to come with our
                      provisional "deanery" with Father Paul Iwaszewicz, ** in absentia
                      already for weeks **, I can only implore your prayers. In addition,
                      heated talk of physical violence could be heard on the parish grounds
                      against those that support Archbishop Alypy and empathize with his
                      situation. Is this the preferred state of affairs for Orthodox
                      Christians in our Diocese? I should hope this is not what the Most
                      Reverend Synod of Bishops had in mind during their, as Father
                      Lebedeff put it, prudent course-charting.

                      Administrative appointments aside, if Vladyka's residence was deemed
                      unsuitable for his medical condition, what bothers me as a simple
                      parishioner is to what extent research was done into improving it and
                      making it an acceptable location. Everyone in our parish can
                      speculate at the great costs the parish recently incurred for the
                      extensive improvements in making Father Paul Iwaszewicz's residence
                      suitable for his large family of eight. Vladyka's situation seems to
                      be improving so rapidly that, by contrast, some investments (house or
                      care) would be likely both small and temporary. Some sort of trial
                      period could have been postulated at minimum. Instead, it seems
                      there was an air of secrecy and hurriedness about this decision to
                      keep Vladyka out of his own home (let alone cathedral) for whatever
                      reasons. From what one can hear, and from physically seeing and
                      hearing Vladyka and listening to his sermons, I can at least
                      sympathize with Vladyka's conclusions. If the real issue is
                      Vladyka's physical condition, why then is there the impression from
                      Vladyka's reaction that he, a high ranking member of the Synod of
                      Bishops, was not consulted with about his own future? It seems this
                      is more of a riddle (from which certain logical, albeit unproven,
                      conclusions can be made) rather than canonical statute?

                      I'd like to add that my own father reposed after fighting Alzheimer's
                      disease for over 6 years and it was not for several years and total
                      incapacitation that the thought of displacing him from his residence
                      even occurred to our family. Maybe this is extreme, but something
                      approximating this should be the way we treat our spiritual fathers
                      as well. Surely not after two months and in such health!

                      I believe the details of events outlined in Father Alexander
                      Lebedeff's letter are crucial and, frankly, missing. This is likely
                      because they are largely unclear to him. This is obviated by the
                      speculation at the end that Vladyka was "helped" in writing his
                      letter and even-if-he-wasn't-but-says-he-was logic, etc. I believe
                      Father's intention to explain this complicated issue from afar only
                      served to perpetuate the speculation and forward the already much
                      propagandized view against the Right Reverend Archbishop Alypy – a
                      view Vladyka is so emphatically trying to expose as an injustice,
                      that it is irresponsible not to listen to or investigate what he is
                      saying simply because of the way he is saying it.
                      I invoke the lesson of my patron Saint Thomas not just to believe,
                      but to verify as well.

                      I ask for your sincere prayers for Vladyka Alypy, our cathedral, the
                      entirety of its clergy and parishioners, and for the Chicago-Detroit
                      Episcopate.

                      Eric (Thomas) Szmyt




                      --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff" <lebedeff@w...>
                      wrote:
                      > I would like to make some comments on this situation, which is
                      causing a
                      > great deal of controversy and confusion among the faithful.
                      >
                      > First of all, I must state that I know Archbishop Alypy for almost
                      forty
                      > years and have always been very devoted to him. When I was a
                      Seminarian, I
                      > used to accompany Fr. Alypy every weekend to the parish in
                      Schenectady,
                      > which he served, to read and sing (and conduct the choir). Later,
                      we were
                      > graduate students together at Norwich University for several
                      summers.
                      >
                      > Just before the tragic accident, I had come to Chicago as the guest
                      speaker
                      > at the Pastoral Conference of the Chicago Archdiocese and spent
                      several
                      > days with Archbishop Alypy while participating in the Conference
                      and while
                      > present at the Diocesan Council meeting that followed.
                      >
                      > Regarding his current situation, I believe it is necessary to
                      understand
                      > the physical and emotional trauma that Archbishop Alypy is going
                      through.
                      > Although an exemplary monk and spiritual leader, Archbishop Alypy
                      is not
                      > exempt from the natural human emotions that going through such a
                      tragedy
                      > bring forth. The classic stages of denial, anger, and depression on
                      the
                      > path to final acceptance must all be gone through, especially since
                      the
                      > accident was clearly one that resulted from a personal choice made
                      by
                      > Archbishop Alypy, who himself decided that he would climb a twelve-
                      foot
                      > ladder with a saw in order to clear some branches--not a normal
                      task for a
                      > seventy-five year old Archbishop. When one adds to this the fact
                      that
                      > Archbishop Alypy, having fallen on his head onto concrete from a
                      > twelve-foot height, suffered a major concussion with all of the
                      physical
                      > consequences of that head trauma, then the situation becomes even
                      more
                      > complicated. And, finally, one must remember that Archbishop Alypy,
                      who had
                      > always been a fiercely independent person, who always took care of
                      his own
                      > needs, now, being semi-paralyzed from the waist down, must suffer
                      the
                      > required personal care performed by others.
                      >
                      > All this has, undoubtedly, affected him, as it would every one of
                      us in a
                      > similar situation.
                      >
                      > What is clear is that a person in such a vulnerable emotional state
                      is
                      > particularly susceptible to influence. Certain individuals, among
                      them some
                      > that Archbishop Alypy had perviously removed from all parish
                      > responsibilites began to visit him and to persuade him that he
                      should not
                      > trust the clergy that had been taking care of him, that they were
                      > attempting to remove him and take over, and that the clergy were
                      preventing
                      > the Archbishop from returning to his home.
                      >
                      > These individuals were able to influence Archbishop Alypy to the
                      point that
                      > he signed a document appointing some lay person as his personal
                      > Representative for Health Care, and removing all of the clergy that
                      had
                      > been involved in his care previously from being involved in any
                      decisions
                      > regarding his care, or even receiving reports about his medical
                      condition.
                      >
                      > A certain clergyman who had been officially suspended for serious
                      issues,
                      > came to Archbishop Alypy and was able to get him to sign a document
                      that
                      > this clergyman had prepared reversing the suspension.
                      >
                      > It should be noted that Metropolitan Laurus personally visited
                      Archbishop
                      > Alypy to express his prayers and support, and to better understand
                      his
                      > condition. Metropolitan Laurus knows Archbishop Alypy for almost 60
                      years,
                      > so there is no one who knows him better.
                      >
                      > Metropolitan Laurus expressed his observations to the Synod of
                      Bishops--he
                      > noticed that Archbishop Alypy demonstrated signs of short-term
                      memory loss
                      > and some confusion--he would repeat himself and would forget what
                      he had
                      > just said.
                      >
                      > In order to better understand Archbishop Alypy's condition, the
                      Synod
                      > decided on a prudent course--to have an assessment made by an
                      independent
                      > team of neurologists and other medical experts as to the condition,
                      the
                      > course of further treatment required and the final prognosis. This
                      medical
                      > team also evaluated the suitability of the Archbishop's residence
                      on Lee
                      > Street for someone in his condition.
                      >
                      > It was the assessment of the medical commission that Archbishop
                      Alypy
                      > required more extensive medical care than that which could be
                      provided at
                      > his home, and that the residence was not the best place for him to
                      be.
                      >
                      > This is actually supported in the Letter of Archbishop Alypy, in
                      which he
                      > describes how he, upon his return to the residence against the
                      advice of
                      > this medical condition, had to be carried up and down stairs in a
                      wheel
                      > chair, which was a grave danger to himself, as well as those
                      carrying him.
                      > What would have happened if someone carrying him slipped or lost
                      his grip?
                      > There individuals, in fact, placed him in mortal danger--certainly
                      not the
                      > best care that he could be given.
                      >
                      > Many people who have written on this issue seem not to understand
                      the
                      > established procedure in the Orthodox Church (in particular, the
                      Statutes
                      > of the Russian Orthodox Church) regarding what must be done in the
                      case of
                      > the incapacity of a Ruling Bishop.
                      >
                      > The Statutes require that in the case of a Ruling Bishop being
                      > incapacitated for longer than two months, the Synod must appoint
                      another
                      > Bishop to have responsibility for the administration of the
                      Diocese. The
                      > Synod also, typically appoints a senior priest in the Diocese to
                      be the
                      > temporary administrator of the Diocese to manage the day to day
                      affairs
                      > that do not require episcopal intervention.
                      >
                      > If the incapacity continues for six months or more, the Synod has
                      the
                      > authority to retire the Ruling Bishop for health reasons and
                      appoint another.
                      >
                      > And, contrary to what some may have understood, incapacity in the
                      eyes of
                      > the Church does not mean unconciousness or mental disability, in
                      addition
                      > to severe physical disability. It means, simply, being unable to
                      perform
                      > the duties of a Ruling Bishop--among which a primary one is the
                      ability to
                      > serve Liturgy, without which the bishop cannot perform ordinations.
                      >
                      > Very simply, a bishop who cannot serve Divine Liturgy **cannot**,
                      by Church
                      > rules, continue to be a Ruling Bishop, no matter how clear his head
                      may be.
                      >
                      > This situation was also the same in the case of Metropolitan
                      Vitaly, who,
                      > for reasons of health, was unable to serve Divine Liturgy for a
                      period of
                      > two or three years before his retirement.
                      >
                      > In the case of Archbishop Alypy, the appointment by the Synod of
                      Fr. Pablo
                      > Iwasciewiec as Diocesan Administrator was completely canonical,
                      and, in
                      > fact, required by the Statutes. It was in no way an attempt by
                      Bishop
                      > Gabriel or Fr. Pablo to "take over the Diocese" or to "get rid of
                      > Archbsihop Alypy,"--simply a statutory administrative requirement,
                      one
                      > which Archbishop Alypy knew about and had seen being executed in
                      other
                      > dioceses many times over the past decades.
                      >
                      > The Letter of Archbishop Alypy that has been recently posted to the
                      > Internet is troublesome on many levels.
                      >
                      > I know Archbishop Alypy well, and I am convinced that Archbishop
                      Alypy, if
                      > he were not in a vulnerable emotional state caused by his physical
                      > disability, would never have written such a letter.
                      >
                      > He has always been a most obedient monastic and totally loyal to
                      the Synod
                      > of Bishops and he would never have threatened legal action against
                      it.
                      >
                      > He would never allow anyone in the parish to see or receive copies
                      of a
                      > letter that he sent to the Synod of Bishops complaining of any
                      perceived
                      > injustice being done to him. He would consider such problems as
                      being
                      > solely between him and his brother bishops--and not something that
                      was to
                      > be brought out into the forum of public opinion.
                      >
                      > For this reason, the letter itself is a convincing testament to the
                      fragile
                      > emotional state of Archbishop Alypy.
                      >
                      > If he was "helped" to write this letter by others, then he is
                      clearly
                      > susceptible to their influence. Even if he himself, when asked,
                      states that
                      > this letter is genuine, this cannot, in such a case, be accepted as
                      a true
                      > validation.
                      >
                      > If he wrote it himself, then this proves that his emotional state
                      is even
                      > more vulnerable, since he, in his normal pre-trauma state, would
                      never have
                      > dreamed of writing a letter attacking his Synod, his fellow
                      bishops, his
                      > own clergy, threatening legal action, and, especially, violating
                      the
                      > confidentiality of inter-episcopal communication, allowing this
                      letter to
                      > be disseminated among the flock.
                      >
                      > With love in Christ,
                      >
                      > Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
                    • Fr. Alexander Lebedeff
                      ... I must say that I am very impressed with the frankness of Kyra s statement and her sincerity. At a time when others are trying to use the tragic situation
                      Message 10 of 26 , Aug 7, 2002
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                        Kyra Cash wrote:

                        >I agree with you totally. This should never have been brought to everyone's
                        >eyes so that everyone can sin. I originally posted the letter Vladika had
                        >translated into English because he wanted everyone to know. Instead, why he
                        >couldn't sit down with Father Paul. After all, isn't he the Bishop. Instead
                        >everyone is now falling into sin, taking sides, saying nasty things to each
                        >other. I am no longer regularly attending the church because of all the
                        >hatred. Bishop has turned aagainst Bishop, Priest against priest, parishoner
                        >against parishoner. Now maybe you can undrstand why I would not want to be
                        >led by a Bishop and priest that cause me to fall into sin and choose sides on
                        >their behalf. I choose the side of Christ and will pray for them all at a
                        >Greek church. When I heard the Bishop calling a rally against Father Paul
                        >and Father Paul was out of town and could not defend himself and then a week
                        >prior Father Paul said Vladika was saying wrong things about him it saddened
                        >me that who I sought once for spiritual advice were now blind to their own
                        >desires and egos.
                        >


                        I must say that I am very impressed with the frankness of Kyra's statement
                        and her sincerity.

                        At a time when others are trying to use the tragic situation in Chicago as
                        an excuse to heap more invective on the Synod of Bishops of the Church
                        Abroad in order to justify their own schismatic actions, Kyra has "hit the
                        nail on the head."

                        She is absolutely correct that these situations should not be handled by
                        "Open Letters" and public meetings--all this causes untold grief, as it
                        forces people to take sides and breeds distrust, enmity, nam-calling, and
                        worse.

                        The matter is onc for the Bishops of the Synod to decide--they are the ones
                        who appointed Archbishop Alypy to his position as Ruling Bishop--and it is
                        to the Synod of Bishops that Archbishop Alypy has sworn obedience and fealty.

                        The decision regarding his ability to administer the Diocese while being
                        physically incapacitated is not his to make--nor is it a decision that a
                        Parish meeting can make--it is a decision that can only be made by the
                        Synod of Bishops.

                        Thank you, Kyra, for your perception of the situation.




                        With love in Christ,

                        Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
                      • Margaret Lark
                        From: szmyte Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 14:37:12 -0000 ... I didn t get this out of Father Alexander s letter at all. As I understood it,
                        Message 11 of 26 , Aug 8, 2002
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                          From: "szmyte" <szmyte@...>
                          Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 14:37:12 -0000

                          >Father Alexander's letter is quite persuasively written, if one were
                          >to accept the premise that Archbishop Alypy is of questionable mental
                          >health. This seems to be the foundation of Father's commentary.
                          >This view is presented early in the letter with a tone imploring the
                          >reader – ironically enough – to show compassion and empathize: "…it
                          >is necessary to understand the physical and emotional trauma that
                          >Archbishop Alypy is going through." Father continues to hint at this
                          >dubious state of mind by suggesting that sawing branches at seventy-
                          >five shows poor judgement....

                          I didn't get this out of Father Alexander's letter at all. As I understood it, the Archbishop was sawing branches off his tree when he fell off the ladder and injured himself seriously. If that isn't enough to cause "physical and emotional trauma," I don't know what is.

                          Pardon my asking an ignorant question, but: Why would anyone want to depose the Archbishop? Outside of the obvious (worldly) reasons, the only reason I can think of is some kind of involvement, on *someone's* part, with the Mansonville mess?

                          --
                          In Christ,
                          Margaret the sinner

                          Glory to God for all things!
                          --
                        • kyracash@aol.com
                          Thank you. But I am not that strong. As I mentioned, I can t buy a candle without hearing people s sides and anger toward each other. No matter where I stand
                          Message 12 of 26 , Aug 8, 2002
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                            Thank you. But I am not that strong. As I mentioned, I can't buy a candle
                            without hearing people's sides and anger toward each other. No matter where
                            I stand in the church people are opening discussing the situation during the
                            liturgy. We are all sinful, but I don't need to attend a church where the
                            clergy seems to find nothing wrong with this and in fact incites this
                            behavior. I have heard Father Paul has left anyway before they were able to
                            lynch him. I feel bad for the next priest that comes in.


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Sandra Thompson
                            Message 13 of 26 , Aug 8, 2002
                            • 0 Attachment
                              > I have heard Father Paul has left anyway Where did he go?
                              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            • szmyte
                              ... The whole issue is scandalous enough without this type of unwarranted sensationalism.
                              Message 14 of 26 , Aug 9, 2002
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In orthodox-synod@y..., kyracash@a... wrote:

                                > I have heard Father Paul has left anyway before they were able to
                                > lynch him. I feel bad for the next priest that comes in.
                                >

                                The whole issue is scandalous enough without this type of unwarranted
                                sensationalism.
                              • szmyte
                                ... [from Eric Szmyt s response to Fr. Alexander s letter:] ... [Margaret Lark s reaction:] ... It is unacceptable reasoning to make such a statement about how
                                Message 15 of 26 , Aug 9, 2002
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                                  --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "Margaret Lark" <skovranok@t...> wrote:

                                  [from Eric Szmyt's response to Fr. Alexander's letter:]
                                  > >"…it is necessary to understand the physical and emotional
                                  > >trauma that Archbishop Alypy is going through." Father continues
                                  > >to hint at this dubious state of mind [...etc.]

                                  [Margaret Lark's reaction:]
                                  >
                                  > I didn't get this out of Father Alexander's letter at all. As I
                                  > understood it, the Archbishop was sawing branches off his tree when
                                  > he fell off the ladder and injured himself seriously. If that
                                  > isn't enough to cause "physical and emotional trauma," I don't know
                                  > what is.
                                  >

                                  It is unacceptable reasoning to make such a statement about how
                                  someone else is feeling based on what we *think* that person should
                                  be going through.

                                  As for physical trauma: Please don't misunderstand what I was
                                  saying. Without doubt, Vladyka's fall produced an immediate
                                  physical effect, but there is such a process as therapy and
                                  recuperation. We are going on 4 months since the accident, and
                                  Archbishop Alypy's progress has greatly impressed doctors. Father
                                  Alexander's letter was written just the other day, but not having
                                  personally seen Vladyka since the accident, Father's comments are
                                  dependent on the accuracy of the information he receives, which is
                                  part of the root of this whole issue.

                                  As for emotional trauma: Who can speculate? The life of a monk is
                                  one of strict discipline. And for an Archbishop living the vast
                                  majority of his life within these spiritual guidelines and devotion
                                  to God, rejoicing in the life given by God, despite suffering, who
                                  can say how much or how long or even if there is emotional trauma
                                  associated with the accident? If the thinking behind "emotional
                                  trauma" is that Vladyka's mental faculties were effected by
                                  the fall, this is totally not the case and never has been. The impact
                                  compressed Vladyka's spine and injured one of the lower
                                  vertebrae. Despite the fact that Vladyka fell directly on his head,
                                  astonishingly there was only a surface wound with no internal injury
                                  to the brain. Vladyka currently continues to deliver sermons at
                                  Divine Liturgy (without preparing them on paper to be read as well).

                                  In short, it is presumptuous to speak on behalf of Vladyka with
                                  regard to his state of mind.

                                  As far as I can tell, the behavior of his subordinates is more
                                  frustrating to Vladyka Alypy than is his personal state as a result
                                  of the accident. It is sad that the Orthodox hierarchy is apparently
                                  so turned upside-down that priests may be in control of disseminating
                                  misleading information about Archbishops.


                                  > Pardon my asking an ignorant question, but: Why would anyone want
                                  > to depose the Archbishop? Outside of the obvious (worldly)
                                  > reasons, the only reason I can think of is some kind of
                                  > involvement, on *someone's* part, with the Mansonville mess?

                                  As for why someone would want to depose the Archbishop: Who knows?
                                  Why do we sin? We know it is wrong in the eyes of God, and yet we do
                                  so. To paraphrase what you've stated in a previous letter: we all
                                  fall, get up, try to do better, and yet we fall again. As for your
                                  postulation about the Mansonville mess, well, Father Paul Iwaszewicz
                                  and the attempted move of a high-ranking Synod member *are* both
                                  common denominators. That's not to say that proves any
                                  connection,
                                  though. The fact that he was present, however, may say something
                                  about Father's character and zealousness for this type of
                                  activity.

                                  In Christ,

                                  Eric (Thomas) Szmyt
                                • kyracash@aol.com
                                  Dear Brother: If you attended the Cathedral as long as I have you will see how factions got together to help oust a priest they didn t like. It is not
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Aug 21, 2002
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                                    Dear Brother:
                                    If you attended the Cathedral as long as I have you will see how factions got
                                    together to help oust a priest they didn't like. It is not sensationalism it
                                    is the truth. I attended services Mon. only because my 89 year old
                                    grandmother wanted to go and the choir director came over to my car and asked
                                    my passenger, not my grandmother whose side are you on. Before she commented
                                    I said I was on the side of Christ. He said don't you support Vladika and
                                    she said yes. He exclaimed good and was satisfied that another person was on
                                    their side. Brother against brother. Instead of keeping this between
                                    Vladika and Father Paul the whole church is divided now because meetings were
                                    held against Father Paul with the Bishop and parishoners. Can you imagine if
                                    the Lord judged us this way. I still ask and have not received an answer.
                                    Why has Metr. Lauras not flown to Mansonville to meet with Metropolitan
                                    Vitaly. If he can meet with the Serbs why can he not meet with our
                                    Metropolitan.



                                    In a message dated 8/9/2002 1:18:12 PM Central Daylight Time,
                                    szmyte@... writes:


                                    > > I have heard Father Paul has left anyway before they were able to
                                    > > lynch him. I feel bad for the next priest that comes in.
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • kyracash@aol.com
                                    In response to your post below, I saw Father Paul at Fr. Jeremiah s church in Wheaton on the vigil service of Transfiguration. I did not hear this from him
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Aug 21, 2002
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                                      In response to your post below, I saw Father Paul at Fr. Jeremiah' s church
                                      in Wheaton on the vigil service of Transfiguration. I did not hear this from
                                      him but from another parishoner that Vladika Alypy is not giving him a letter
                                      of recommendation to leave the Cathedral where the parishoners have rose up
                                      against him without him being there to accept or deny their allegations. I
                                      don't know if him and his family of six is in limbo now. I asked one
                                      parishoner at the Cathedral if people want him out why don't we help him find
                                      another parish and that started a whole other disagreement.

                                      In a message dated 8/8/2002 9:55:39 PM Central Daylight Time,
                                      sandra@... writes:


                                      > > I have heard Father Paul has left anyway Where did he go?
                                      > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >




                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Fr. Alexander Lebedeff
                                      Kyra s commenst are right on the mark. It seems foolish to blame Fr. Pablo Iwaszczewicz alone for the problems and tensions at the Chicago Cathedral. Actually,
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Aug 21, 2002
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                                        Kyra's commenst are right on the mark.

                                        It seems foolish to blame Fr. Pablo Iwaszczewicz alone for the problems and
                                        tensions at the Chicago Cathedral.

                                        Actually, over the past not too many years, two other young, talented
                                        priests, also graduates of Holy Trinity Seminary in Jordanville, have had
                                        their lives made miserable by the same group causing problems for Fr.
                                        Pablo--and had to leave the parish because of the attacks against them and
                                        their families.

                                        Fr. Vladimir Boikov lasted four years.

                                        And Fr. Andrei Sommers lasted five--and was hounded out just after he had
                                        successfully organized and ran the All-Diasporan Youth Conference--a
                                        significant accomplishment.

                                        Fr. Pablo Iwaszewicz has lasted only two years before he has faced the same
                                        problems.

                                        I pity the next young, educated, pious, and idealistic priest who will
                                        receive the Chicago cathedral assignment.


                                        And please note that the problems encountered by Frs. Vladimir and Andrei
                                        came long before the retirement of Metropolitan Vitaly, so what happened to
                                        him cannot at all be considered as being the underlying cause of the
                                        current conflict.





                                        With love in Christ,

                                        Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
                                      • Fr. John R. Shaw
                                        ... Please note that it was Kyra who first put Vl. Alypy s letter on the internet, and, while she felt Vladyka was the underdog , wrote in a tone suggesting
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Aug 22, 2002
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                                          Fr. Alexander Lebedeff wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Kyra's commenst are right on the mark.

                                          Please note that it was Kyra who first put Vl. Alypy's letter on the
                                          internet, and, while she felt Vladyka was the "underdog", wrote in a
                                          tone suggesting support for him.
                                          >
                                          > It seems foolish to blame Fr. Pablo Iwaszczewicz alone for the
                                          problems and
                                          > tensions at the Chicago Cathedral.

                                          Of course, Fr. Pablo has some important allies, some of them bishops,
                                          who have involved themselves directly.
                                          >
                                          > Actually, over the past not too many years, two other young,
                                          talented
                                          > priests, also graduates of Holy Trinity Seminary in Jordanville, have
                                          had
                                          > their lives made miserable by the same group causing problems for Fr.
                                          > Pablo...

                                          Yes, but what "group" is that? Those supporting Vl. Alypy were not (and
                                          in fact, still are not), a united "group". There are, however, various
                                          people, some of whom have now become friends, who became concerned
                                          early on about what Fr. Pablo was doing.


                                          --and had to leave the parish because of the attacks against them and
                                          > their families.

                                          I suspect that is at least a slight exaggeration.
                                          >
                                          > Fr. Vladimir Boikov lasted four years.

                                          I lasted, as you may recall, *15* years in that parish. Consequently I
                                          know something about the situation there...

                                          When I was reassigned to Milwaukee rather suddenly, I too had many
                                          people who were sorry to see me go; some of them seem now to make
                                          a "connection" between that and the case of Fr. Pablo, and to support
                                          him. It is interesting that Fr. Alexander, nevertheless, did not
                                          say "*three* other priests"--and I was 29 when I arrived in Chicago--
                                          except that, of course, by now he probably is aware that I disagree
                                          with his statements about the Chicago cathedral.

                                          > And Fr. Andrei Sommers lasted five--and was hounded out just after he
                                          had
                                          > successfully organized and ran the All-Diasporan Youth Conference--a
                                          > significant accomplishment.

                                          Was he really "hounded out"--or did he simply grow weary of the general
                                          atmosphere in the Chicago cathedral?
                                          >
                                          > Fr. Pablo Iwaszewicz has lasted only two years before he has faced
                                          the same
                                          > problems.

                                          Actually, I think he brought the problems with him when he came.
                                          >
                                          > I pity the next young, educated, pious, and idealistic priest who
                                          will
                                          > receive the Chicago cathedral assignment.

                                          And I pity the parish that Fr. Pablo goes to next, although it would be
                                          selfish of me only to rejoice if, in fact, he does give up his vow to
                                          battle Vl. Alypy to the bitter end.
                                          >
                                          > And please note that the problems encountered by Frs. Vladimir and
                                          Andrei
                                          > came long before the retirement of Metropolitan Vitaly, so what
                                          happened to
                                          > him cannot at all be considered as being the underlying cause of the
                                          > current conflict.

                                          Here I of course agree with Fr. Alexander. But since Fr. Pablo was
                                          *also involved* in the unpleasant confrontation in Mansonville, and,
                                          moreover, wrote a denunciation of Bishop Michael that resulted in the
                                          latter's being removed from his diocese, some people do make the wrong
                                          connections between the two situations.

                                          Yet there would be no conflict at all if Fr. Pablo decided to stop it.

                                          In Christ
                                          Fr. John R. Shaw


                                          >
                                        • Hristofor
                                          Please remember in your prayers and at liturgy the newly departed servant of God, Alexey (Borisovich Jordan), who peacefully reposed in the Lord early in the
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Aug 22, 2002
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                                            Please remember in your prayers and at liturgy the newly departed servant
                                            of God, Alexey (Borisovich Jordan), who peacefully reposed in the Lord
                                            early in the morning of 8/13 August.

                                            Tsarstvo jemu nebesnoje i vjechnaja pamjat!

                                            Hristofor
                                          • szmyte
                                            In the search for truth many are discussing this issue, be it on the church grounds or here on the web. Please forgive me for taking issue with some statements
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Aug 22, 2002
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                                              In the search for truth many are discussing this issue, be it on the
                                              church grounds or here on the web.

                                              Please forgive me for taking issue with some statements in your
                                              letter, but they called to my conscience for some response.

                                              --- In orthodox-synod@y..., kyracash@a... wrote:
                                              > If you attended the Cathedral as long as I have you will see how
                                              > factions got together to help oust a priest they didn't like.

                                              This is not merely an issue of like or dislike based on subjective
                                              impressions. The central question revolves around the morality (and
                                              legality and canonical adherence) of a clergyman's behavior. In
                                              your years at the cathedral, the switch from parishioners ousting a
                                              priest to a priest ousting an Archbishop must be very distressing to
                                              witness, indeed.

                                              > It is not sensationalism it is the truth.

                                              The use of the term "lynch" **is** sensationalist. And may
                                              God grant us to live to the next priest. In the meantime, we should
                                              be concerned about the current situation.

                                              > I attended services Mon. only because my 89 year old grandmother
                                              > wanted to go and the choir director came over to my car and asked
                                              > my passenger, not my grandmother whose side are you on. Before she
                                              > commented I said I was on the side of Christ. He said don't you
                                              > support Vladika and she said yes. He exclaimed good and was
                                              > satisfied that another person was on their side. Brother against
                                              > brother.

                                              I understand your concern about all this happening in our parish, but
                                              this may be one of the tests God has for us.

                                              It is the nature of our Orthodox Christian struggle constantly to be
                                              answering the question (or a form of it): "Which side am I
                                              on?" And it will be asked either explicitly or implicitly from
                                              now through the day of Judgement.

                                              > Instead of keeping this between Vladika and Father Paul the whole
                                              > church is divided now because meetings were held against Father
                                              > Paul with the Bishop and parishoners.

                                              If this was kept between Vladyka and Fr. Paul, there would be no
                                              issue, correct. Archbishop Alypy would have been quietly shipped off
                                              to some home. We should not be so prepared to sacrifice truth and
                                              justice for comfort in togetherness.

                                              > Can you imagine if the Lord judged us this way.

                                              According to a recent sermon of Fr. Paul's, we will be judged (to
                                              simplify somewhat) in accord with our conscience. We will look down
                                              at the garment of our souls and occupy the side in the afterlife
                                              dictated by the sins with which we have stained it. You are correct,
                                              the Lord's judgement will be very different. There will be no
                                              fleeing from it.

                                              I continue to pray for our parish, all its clergy and all its
                                              parishioners. And I ask the same of all of you.

                                              In Christ,

                                              Eric (Thomas) Szmyt
                                            • Fr. Anthony Nelson
                                              ... There is much in all of this that calls out to our consciences. ... This is the crux of the matter. Our Vladyka has been abused - there is no other
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Aug 22, 2002
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                                                szmyte@... wrote:

                                                >Please forgive me for taking issue with some statements in your
                                                >letter, but they called to my conscience for some response.

                                                There is much in all of this that calls out to our consciences.

                                                >This is not merely an issue of like or dislike based on subjective
                                                >impressions. The central question revolves around the morality (and
                                                >legality and canonical adherence) of a clergyman's behavior. In
                                                >your years at the cathedral, the switch from parishioners ousting a
                                                >priest to a priest ousting an Archbishop must be very distressing to
                                                >witness, indeed.

                                                This is the crux of the matter. Our Vladyka has been abused - there is no
                                                other understanding possible. Thanks to those faithful ones who stepped in
                                                and gave their faithful support to our Archbishop. The disinformation
                                                spread about him and his condition was like a poison in the water of the
                                                spiritual life of this diocese and of our Russian Orthodox Church. Those
                                                who kept in touch with Vladyka personally or through others doing so were -
                                                Slava Bogu! - able to head off the attempted marginalization and even
                                                effective destruction of his archpastoral ministry to us who have so
                                                greatly benefited by it.

                                                If there can be something good said about this whole machination of the
                                                Evil One, it is that Vladyka Alypy demonstrated once again his blessed
                                                character by his merciful handling of the situation and those who
                                                perpetrated it.

                                                Fr. Anthony

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