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Re: [orthodox-synod] Not in our Church long enough

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  • Michael Nikitin
    Fr.David ,from what Church did you and Fr. Basil come from? MN From: Fr David Straut Reply-To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com To:
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 24, 2002
      Fr.David ,from what Church did you and Fr. Basil come from?

      MN


      From: "Fr David Straut" <fr.straut@...>
      Reply-To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
      To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [orthodox-synod] Not in our Church long enough
      Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:28:47 -0400

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "rev mark gilstrap" <gilstrap@...>
      To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 8:53 AM
      Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Vladimir Kozyreff


      > I reiterate my call to Fr David, and now to
      > you.

      > Why
      > are two priests relatively new to ROCA so
      > upset?
      >
      > Thank you.
      > In Christ,
      > pr Mark
      >

      Dear Fr Mark,

      I am sorry to have offended you.

      I find your reference to the fact that Fr Basil and I came to the Russian
      Church Abroad "relatively" recently a bit barbed. Yes, it is true that both
      of us came to the ROCOR just over four years ago. Though I was ordained to
      the priesthood in July of 1986, I came to the Russian Orthodox Church
      Outside of Russia in March of 1998.

      Thankyou for putting me in my place. Could you please let me know how long
      I must be a priest of the Church Abroad before I can express an opinion? I
      remain

      Your younger brother in the ROCA,

      Priest David Straut





      _________________________________________________________________
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    • Fr David Straut
      Dear Reader John, May the Lord bless you! You are responding to my first post, I believe. The post entitled Not in our Church long enough dealt with the
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 24, 2002
        Dear Reader John,

        May the Lord bless you!

        You are responding to my first post, I believe. The post entitled "Not in
        our Church long enough" dealt with the sole issue that I perceived that Fr
        Mark Gilstrap was making an issue of the fact that I was relatively new to
        the ROCOR.

        In my original post, if you will reread it carefully, I objected to what I
        saw as a constant stream of personal attack on the position expressed by an
        ruling Senior Hierarch of our Church. You seem to presume that I have a
        certain ecclesiological position. I have not expressed one. I have only
        expressed my disapproval of an interminable stream of posts dealing with
        Vladika Mark. I would hope that those who share your position could simply
        write about it without attacking a particular Hierarch of our Church.

        Priest David Straut

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "rdrjohn2000" <rdrjohn2000@...>
        To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 12:11 PM
        Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Not in our Church long enough


        >
        > Dear Fr. David,
        >
        >
        > Bless!
        >
        > Our church has people who hold different views in regard to the MP.
        > Among the hierarchs, Vl. Mark has been the most vocal in terms of
        > rapprochment with the MP. However, there are many people (myself
        > included) who like Vladimir K. are not comfortable with recognition
        > of former KGB agents as legitimate bishops in the Orthodox Church.
        > Many of us view this as the long standing position of our church
        > (ROCOR).
        >
        > I recognize that some members of our church are willing to be more
        > conciliatory toward the MP and that is fine; we are all entitled to
        > our opinion. However, until the Synod makes a firm declaration on
        > the matter, I think it is reasonable that people such as Vladimir and
        > myself be allowed to express our views. A fair and open discussion
        > of differing points of view is preferred to stifling dissent, don't
        > you think?
        >
        > In Christ,
        >
        > Rdr John
        > --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "Fr David Straut" <fr.straut@v...> wrote:
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: "rev mark gilstrap" <gilstrap@g...>
        > > To: <orthodox-synod@y...>
        > > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 8:53 AM
        > > Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Vladimir Kozyreff
        > >
        > >
        > > > I reiterate my call to Fr David, and now to
        > > > you.
        > >
        > > > Why
        > > > are two priests relatively new to ROCA so
        > > > upset?
        > > >
        > > > Thank you.
        > > > In Christ,
        > > > pr Mark
        > > >
        > >
        > > Dear Fr Mark,
        > >
        > > I am sorry to have offended you.
        > >
        > > I find your reference to the fact that Fr Basil and I came to the
        > Russian
        > > Church Abroad "relatively" recently a bit barbed. Yes, it is true
        > that both
        > > of us came to the ROCOR just over four years ago. Though I was
        > ordained to
        > > the priesthood in July of 1986, I came to the Russian Orthodox
        > Church
        > > Outside of Russia in March of 1998.
        > >
        > > Thankyou for putting me in my place. Could you please let me know
        > how long
        > > I must be a priest of the Church Abroad before I can express an
        > opinion? I
        > > remain
        > >
        > > Your younger brother in the ROCA,
        > >
        > > Priest David Straut
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
      • Fr David Straut
        Dear Michael, Greetings of the Feast! Why do you ask? By the way, Fr Basil and I came from different Orthodox jurisdictions to the Russian Church Abroad.
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 24, 2002
          Dear Michael,

          Greetings of the Feast!

          Why do you ask?

          By the way, Fr Basil and I came from different Orthodox jurisdictions to the
          Russian Church Abroad.

          Priest David Straut

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Michael Nikitin" <mikeniki@...>
          To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 12:32 PM
          Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Not in our Church long enough


          > Fr.David ,from what Church did you and Fr. Basil come from?
          >
          > MN
          >
          >
          > From: "Fr David Straut" <fr.straut@...>
          > Reply-To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
          > To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
          > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Not in our Church long enough
          > Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:28:47 -0400
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "rev mark gilstrap" <gilstrap@...>
          > To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 8:53 AM
          > Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Vladimir Kozyreff
          >
          >
          > > I reiterate my call to Fr David, and now to
          > > you.
          >
          > > Why
          > > are two priests relatively new to ROCA so
          > > upset?
          > >
          > > Thank you.
          > > In Christ,
          > > pr Mark
          > >
          >
          > Dear Fr Mark,
          >
          > I am sorry to have offended you.
          >
          > I find your reference to the fact that Fr Basil and I came to the Russian
          > Church Abroad "relatively" recently a bit barbed. Yes, it is true that
          both
          > of us came to the ROCOR just over four years ago. Though I was ordained
          to
          > the priesthood in July of 1986, I came to the Russian Orthodox Church
          > Outside of Russia in March of 1998.
          >
          > Thankyou for putting me in my place. Could you please let me know how
          long
          > I must be a priest of the Church Abroad before I can express an opinion?
          I
          > remain
          >
          > Your younger brother in the ROCA,
          >
          > Priest David Straut
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > _________________________________________________________________
          > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • rdrjohn2000
          Dear Fr. David, Bless, Thank you for your friendly response. You are correct in that I was referring to your original post concerning Vladimir K, not the one
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 24, 2002
            Dear Fr. David,

            Bless,

            Thank you for your friendly response. You are correct in that I was
            referring to your original post concerning Vladimir K, not the one
            from Fr. Mark, the list moderator.

            You are also correct that I assumed you had a particular
            ecclesiological position that is in general friendly to the MP. If
            this is not correct I apologize. It is true you did not express any
            particular ecclesiological view. I reread the last five posts from
            Vladimir to see if they were personal attacks against Vl. Mark as you
            described. Frankly, I disagree. Vladimir quoted Vl. Mark and then
            added his own comments. None of Vladimir's comments were personal
            attacks on Vl. Mark in my view. I admitt I read his posts rather
            quickly, so if he did in fact post a personal attack, I would be
            grateful if you would point out where he did so.

            However, I'll let Vladimir speak for himself and I will speak for
            myself. I do think it is essential for the future of our church that
            those of us who disagree air our disputes in an open, honest and
            frank
            manner without stooping to the level of personal slander and
            attacks. Our church faces difficult decisions in the years ahead. I
            hope cooler heads will prevail. With the Lord's blessing may it be
            so.

            Your servant in Christ,

            Rdr John




            --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "Fr David Straut" <fr.straut@v...> wrote:
            > Dear Reader John,
            >
            > May the Lord bless you!
            >
            > You are responding to my first post, I believe. The post
            entitled "Not in
            > our Church long enough" dealt with the sole issue that I perceived
            that Fr
            > Mark Gilstrap was making an issue of the fact that I was relatively
            new to
            > the ROCOR.
            >
            > In my original post, if you will reread it carefully, I objected to
            what I
            > saw as a constant stream of personal attack on the position
            expressed by an
            > ruling Senior Hierarch of our Church. You seem to presume that I
            have a
            > certain ecclesiological position. I have not expressed one. I
            have only
            > expressed my disapproval of an interminable stream of posts dealing
            with
            > Vladika Mark. I would hope that those who share your position
            could simply
            > write about it without attacking a particular Hierarch of our
            Church.
            >
            > Priest David Straut
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "rdrjohn2000" <rdrjohn2000@y...>
            > To: <orthodox-synod@y...>
            > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 12:11 PM
            > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Not in our Church long enough
            >
            >
            > >
            > > Dear Fr. David,
            > >
            > >
            > > Bless!
            > >
            > > Our church has people who hold different views in regard to the
            MP.
            > > Among the hierarchs, Vl. Mark has been the most vocal in terms of
            > > rapprochment with the MP. However, there are many people (myself
            > > included) who like Vladimir K. are not comfortable with
            recognition
            > > of former KGB agents as legitimate bishops in the Orthodox Church.
            > > Many of us view this as the long standing position of our church
            > > (ROCOR).
            > >
            > > I recognize that some members of our church are willing to be more
            > > conciliatory toward the MP and that is fine; we are all entitled
            to
            > > our opinion. However, until the Synod makes a firm declaration on
            > > the matter, I think it is reasonable that people such as Vladimir
            and
            > > myself be allowed to express our views. A fair and open
            discussion
            > > of differing points of view is preferred to stifling dissent,
            don't
            > > you think?
            > >
            > > In Christ,
            > >
            > > Rdr John
            > > --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "Fr David Straut" <fr.straut@v...>
            wrote:
            > > >
            > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > From: "rev mark gilstrap" <gilstrap@g...>
            > > > To: <orthodox-synod@y...>
            > > > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 8:53 AM
            > > > Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Vladimir Kozyreff
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > > I reiterate my call to Fr David, and now to
            > > > > you.
            > > >
            > > > > Why
            > > > > are two priests relatively new to ROCA so
            > > > > upset?
            > > > >
            > > > > Thank you.
            > > > > In Christ,
            > > > > pr Mark
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > > Dear Fr Mark,
            > > >
            > > > I am sorry to have offended you.
            > > >
            > > > I find your reference to the fact that Fr Basil and I came to
            the
            > > Russian
            > > > Church Abroad "relatively" recently a bit barbed. Yes, it is
            true
            > > that both
            > > > of us came to the ROCOR just over four years ago. Though I was
            > > ordained to
            > > > the priesthood in July of 1986, I came to the Russian Orthodox
            > > Church
            > > > Outside of Russia in March of 1998.
            > > >
            > > > Thankyou for putting me in my place. Could you please let me
            know
            > > how long
            > > > I must be a priest of the Church Abroad before I can express an
            > > opinion? I
            > > > remain
            > > >
            > > > Your younger brother in the ROCA,
            > > >
            > > > Priest David Straut
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >
            > >
          • batushka@msn.com
            dear readers of this list, four years ago I was cast out of my OCA parish of seven years. A conspiracy started to oust me by humiliating me, accusing me of
            Message 5 of 13 , Jun 25, 2002
              dear readers of this list,

              four years ago I was cast out of my OCA parish of seven years. A conspiracy started to oust me by humiliating me, accusing me of taking my parish into the Synod.

              I was ordained a priest of the OCA 20 years ago. I am a graduate of St. Tikhon's Seminary, which has BTW supplied the Synod with many priests, gifted church workers (Brother Isaac) and one bishop - if I'm not wrong, Archbishop Hilarion's family started out in an OCA parish in Canada. So we're not all bad. [:-) Ten years ago I began my journey to the Church Abroad. I don't pretend to be extremely bright, or well educated - in fact, I am amazed by what I don't know...or have forgotten as the case may be. I try to be honest and not dance around issues. So here goes...

              I was educated and yet ignorant of the situation which existed in America with regard to the Metropolia and the Church Abroad. His Eminence Archbishop Hilarion, Fathers Valery and Sergei Lukianov, and Brother Isaac were both helpful, comforting and of great suppport to me and eventually my family. I remember well a meeting I had with Vladyka Lavr about six years ago when he asked me point blank whether I was ready to be persecuted, and suffer for my faith. That persecution came, it was a wonderful time to finally open my mouth against the innovations creeping into the New Calendar churches. I was cast out of my parish, even though I had made ready my personal path into the Church Abroad. The hierarchy of the OCA cast slander against my family, made totally false accusations against me ---which lead to the formation of my present parish.

              From a community which had no real knowledge of "Church politics" for lack of a better term, and no clear idea of what the OCA was engaging in, there came a new mission of the Church Abroad. My parish is loving, energetic, spiritually enlivened, and working hard to support its faithful, and God-fearing hierarchs. I have great respect for all of them.

              Father David and I came to the Church Abroad from places where there are good priests, and maybe even good bishops - but they are living a lie. And I say that because they are simply going with the flow, and very few object to anything which stands on principal. They can yell and scream about the new calendar, about general confession, about modernizing the Orhtodox faith - but none of them will ever stand in defense of the faith unless it can benefit them. They're all too scared of being labelled zealots, or fanatics ---- never mind faithful stewards.

              Without producing great volumes of words, I have read Archbishop Mark's article. I know he has been slandered in the past. I respect his efforts to bring about peace. The MP is still the deavious organ it once was - this we can see from what has been done to the Church Abroad. The old regime is still in power, but I have faith in God and the newer clergy who are coming up in the ranks. I am sure Archbishop Mark has experienced far more than I have. I have great respect for His Eminence, and ALL the bishops whom I have met, and greatly regret not meeting more - and being in the Church Abroad earlier in my life. But then, God has His purpose for everything.

              I apologize if I have offended anyone by my words, but I loathe the fact that volumes can be written and we talk a "word or phrase" to death. I am sick of seeing our hierarchs and our church slandered. Why can't we write encouraging things. Why can't wwe simply help each other to stand firm, hold each other up. And that begins with our hierarchs. We all make mistakes, and thank God, we should be able to acknowledge them. That's what will lead my former jurisdiction down the dark path....they can not admit wrong. There is a spiritual cancer infecting them- greater than anything I witness within our ranks. I don't want to be part of it and that's why I am here. I love our hierarchs, can't we ask things / say things in a nicer way ?

              If you have further questions, O Grand Inquisitor, ask away.............I've got to go to work, in Christ, Father Basil
              >
              > > Why
              > > are two priests relatively new to ROCA so
              > > upset?
              > >
              > > Thank you.
              > > In Christ,
              > > pr Mark
              > >
              >
              > Dear Fr Mark,
              >
              > I am sorry to have offended you.
              >
              > I find your reference to the fact that Fr Basil and I came to the Russian
              > Church Abroad "relatively" recently a bit barbed. Yes, it is true that
              both
              > of us came to the ROCOR just over four years ago. Though I was ordained
              to
              > the priesthood in July of 1986, I came to the Russian Orthodox Church
              > Outside of Russia in March of 1998.
              >
              > Thankyou for putting me in my place. Could you please let me know how
              long
              > I must be a priest of the Church Abroad before I can express an opinion?
              I
              > remain
              >
              > Your younger brother in the ROCA,
              >
              > Priest David Straut
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > _________________________________________________________________
              > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >





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            • catherine elaine sullivan
              When unpleasant truths are spoken, it is normal for those who are affected to negatively spotlight those who speak them. I do not understand either who one
              Message 6 of 13 , Jun 25, 2002
                When unpleasant truths are spoken, it is normal for those who are affected to
                negatively spotlight those who speak them. I do not understand either who one
                needs to have seniority to speak the truth. One should of course know whereof
                one speaks, but beyond that, how long you are in one jurisdiction or another
                should not matter.

                =====
                Catherine

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              • frmarkg
                My question has been effectively derailed and lost by focusing on the misinterpretation of an extraneous aside. This is why one must be very precise in
                Message 7 of 13 , Jun 25, 2002
                  My question has been effectively derailed and lost
                  by focusing on the misinterpretation of an extraneous
                  aside. This is why one must be very precise in
                  words. Any small indiscretion (such as wondering,
                  in an aside, why some clergy new to the Synod are so
                  vehement in their opposition to a view long held in
                  the synod) can be used to distract from the real
                  issue. I wrote in haste (stray thought-to-keyboard)
                  and did not consider the "barb" effect this phrase
                  might have. Forgive me. No doubt this quick before-
                  work reply is also full of expressions of my own sin.
                  But why focus on such things. What is the point?

                  Who will answer the real question as to what is so "anti-
                  synod" and an "attack on Archbp Mark" about the posting
                  of Vladimir Kozyreff (who, apparently has less right to
                  speak his opinion?). If one is going to dismiss a person
                  for asking hard questions, then an explanation of what
                  is wrong with their question seems necessary.

                  Who is going to step up and explain where the logic
                  behind these hard questions is wrong? Or do we just
                  write off these people (and those they influence)?
                  I'm sure that some people are out to just "stir the pot"
                  (maybe that is Vladimir's intention - do we judge such
                  things by impressions alone?) but they cannot be
                  effective if there are calming answers in response to
                  their stirrings. I am convinced that most of the people
                  who have left our church recently (going nowhere really)
                  over unanswered questions didn't want to leave, but
                  have been scandalized by the pot stirrers, and by priests
                  who do not explain things to them. There are answers
                  for all the real questions. That is one reason why I
                  became Orthodox. Authentic answers - answers which will
                  bring those who are lost back into the fold.

                  Can we simplify the questions? The complexity of
                  innuendo (about Archbp Mark or whomever) makes it
                  hard to address these issues. One becomes wary of
                  answering a question containing underlying innuendo.
                  If all our questions were asked in guileless simplicity
                  there would be no problems. But, the world...

                  In Christ,
                  pr Mark

                  --- In orthodox-synod@y..., catherine elaine sullivan
                  <flicka68@y...> wrote:
                  > When unpleasant truths are spoken, it is normal for those who are
                  affected to
                  > negatively spotlight those who speak them. I do not understand
                  either who one
                  > needs to have seniority to speak the truth. One should of course
                  know whereof
                  > one speaks, but beyond that, how long you are in one jurisdiction
                  or another
                  > should not matter.
                  >
                  > =====
                  > Catherine
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
                  > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
                • Margaret Lark
                  From: frmarkg Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 13:30:13 -0000 Father, bless! ... If I read you right, you are asking two questions
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jun 25, 2002
                    From: "frmarkg" <fr.mark@...>
                    Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 13:30:13 -0000

                    Father, bless!

                    <snip>
                    >Can we simplify the questions? The complexity of
                    >innuendo (about Archbp Mark or whomever) makes it
                    >hard to address these issues. One becomes wary of
                    >answering a question containing underlying innuendo.
                    >If all our questions were asked in guileless simplicity
                    >there would be no problems. But, the world...

                    If I read you right, you are asking two questions here: one is why people have problems with Mr. Kozyreff's remarks about Vl. Mark, and the other is, can we please take comments at face value without reading any ad hominem attacks into them. Do I have this straight, or am I only adding to the confusion? If the latter, please do forgive me, and I will "stifle, Edith!" ;-) (Which I will be doing shortly anyway - going off to Jordanville.)

                    Kissing your right hand,
                    Margaret Lark, sinner
                  • goossir
                    Dear List, in particular Dear Moderator Fr Mark, (so you are Rv Mark Gillstrap?) and Reader John, First I must apologize to the people of this list who do not
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jun 25, 2002
                      Dear List,

                      in particular Dear Moderator Fr Mark, (so you are Rv Mark Gillstrap?)
                      and Reader John,

                      First I must apologize to the people of this list who do not
                      appreciate the discussion about Vl Mark, and everything which
                      followed. I am the culprit who initiated it by reacting immediadely
                      to the interview given by Vl Mark. Vladimir K. took over and, in my
                      opinion, in a very learned and honest way - much better than I could
                      ever do myself. I am very grateful to the Moderator that he
                      understood the need for discussing it in the open. In this
                      interview, there seems to be so many ambiguities which are the core
                      problems that our Church has been going through for the last years.
                      Finally, after two awful years of silence from the Synod (the main
                      questions were never really answered: MP canonicity,
                      appropriativeness of dialogue with them, ecumenism, Mansonville,
                      etc.), a door opened through this chat group. Father Mark, forgive
                      me if I bypass the guidelines, but I do feel that what you allowed
                      comes from a Christian heart. I am very grateful to you. My thanks
                      also to Reader John as well to those who supported the openness of
                      the dialogue, to Elizabeth who was the first to answer me, to Michael
                      Nikitin for his encouragements.

                      Father Mark, in one of your mail you spoke about a bait being thrown
                      and Vladimir being the fisherman. When dialogue is obscured, it is
                      only natural to try to throw a bait. There would be no reason for a
                      bait if the message was clear. Did not Jesus said: "Come, follow me,
                      and I will make you fishers of men."
                      Matthew 4:18-20

                      Living in Europe, I can assure you that many problems would have been
                      avoided, such as the suspension of the most respected and faithful
                      clergy of our Church, if the statements of the Synod had been clear.
                      And you are absolutely correct when you say that many did not want to
                      leave the Church but felt inclined to after not only been scandalized
                      by unanswered questions but also, alas, by the behaviour in Canada
                      and some later events.

                      Our brother "joeswaydyn2000@..." mentiond an All-Russian
                      Sobor. Why not? Sobor instead of dialogue - excellent idea. Many
                      bad feelings, suspicions, personal adversity could be solved and with
                      God's help, reconciliation might come about, for which I pray every
                      day.

                      Yours in Christ

                      Irina
                    • joeswaydyn2000
                      Fr Bless: thank you. ... [...]
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jun 26, 2002
                        Fr Bless: thank you.

                        --- In orthodox-synod@y..., batushka@m... wrote:
                        > dear readers of this list,
                        >
                        > four years ago I was cast out of my OCA parish of seven years.
                        [...]
                      • joeswaydyn2000
                        To Father-- Apparently the machine cut out your post-- I was not impying that there was a point made to the OCA parish thing-- I thought the whole post would
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jun 26, 2002
                          To Father-- Apparently the machine cut out your post-- I was not
                          impying that there was a point made to the OCA parish thing-- I
                          thought the whole post would be copied. I appreciate the story.

                          --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "joeswaydyn2000" <joeswaydyn2000@y...>
                          wrote:
                          > Fr Bless: thank you.
                          >
                          > --- In orthodox-synod@y..., batushka@m... wrote:
                          > > dear readers of this list,
                          > >
                          > > four years ago I was cast out of my OCA parish of seven years.
                          > [...]
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