Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [orthodox-synod] 3 Fingers

Expand Messages
  • Kiril Bart
    I m getting little bit tired of that nonsence. If they want to protect someone from crossing, wouldn t it be enough to chop off just one finger, so person
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 19, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      I'm getting little bit tired of that nonsence. If they
      want to protect someone from crossing, wouldn't it be
      enough to chop off just one finger, so person can't
      cross himself in the name of Holy Trinity (three
      fingers) and Two Natures of Christ (two fingers)?
      Please use your head not only for eating and wearing
      hats.
      Regards, Subdeacon Kirill
      --- Hristofor <hristofor@...> wrote:
      > That is correct. Someone could still pick up and use
      > a weapon with their
      > left hand, albeit with some difficulty. If the
      > fingers were cut off to
      > prevent combat, then both hands would need to be
      > chopped... in all case
      > that I have heard, it only happened on the right
      > hand.
      >
      > If my memory serves me correctly (about the place
      > where the relics are), in
      > the church of the Jerusalem Patriarchate Seminary
      > lie the relics of a
      > martyred monk, killed during the last decades of the
      > XXth Century by some
      > unknown person. His three fingers on the right hand
      > were also cut off
      > before his death. Surely he did not carry a
      > weapon...
      >
      > Hristofor.
      >
      > At 02:18 PM 6/18/2002, you wrote:
      > >Hello! This is true. This is the Muslim's way of
      > spitting at the Orthodox.
      > >It has been done to Russian soldiers in Chechnya as
      > well...
      > >-Nina Ledkovsky
      > >
      > >-----Original Message-----
      > >From: Kiril Bart [mailto:kirbart@...]
      > >Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 12:11 PM
      > >To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
      > >Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Interview with
      > Vl. Mark
      > >
      > >
      > >Those fingers usually are choppted off to prevent
      > >person from holding and using firearms, or any
      > other
      > >weapons. Try to be more realistic.
      > > Subdeacon Kirill
      > >P.S. In Greece if they want to prevent someone from
      > >crossing himself, they chopped of the whole hand.
      > >
      > >--- boulia_1 <eledkovsky@...> wrote:
      > > > Our Church, since the reprehensible NATO
      > > > "intervention" (i.e. act of
      > > > War) in Kosovo, has been praying for the
      > suffering
      > > > Orthodox people of
      > > > Serbia, where a favorite torture of (Islamic)
      > > > terrorist Albanians has
      > > > been to cut off the thumb and first two fingers
      > of
      > > > their Serb victims,
      > > > so that they cannot proerly form their hands to
      > > > cross themselves!
      > > >
      > > > Vladyka Antony (Medvedev)of blessed memory was
      > > > similarly and just as
      > > > ignorantly criticised for allowing a Serb bishop
      > to
      > > > serve in the SF
      > > > cathedral several years back.
      > > >
      > > > Let us not forget, as he then noted from the
      > Ambo,
      > > > the important and
      > > > salvationary role the Serb church played in
      > > > protecting their Orthodox
      > > > brethren fleeing the red terror. Indeed, many of
      > our
      > > > most esteemed
      > > > hierarchs were educated in Belgrade (INCLUDING
      > St.
      > > > John of
      > > > Shanghai/S.F.).
      > > >
      > > > To make a gross generalization, Serbs may not
      > all be
      > > > the most pious of
      > > > people, but, again, they are our Orthodox
      > brethren
      > > > and among the
      > > > closest of all, historically, to ROCOR. I cannot
      > > > understand this
      > > > desire to be so isolationist, or this hunger to
      > find
      > > > fault.
      > > >
      > > > "And why beholdest thou the splinter that is in
      > thy
      > > > brother's eye, but
      > > > perceivest not the beam that is in thine own
      > eye?...
      > > > Thou hypocrite,
      > > > cast out first the beam out of thine own eye,
      > and
      > > > then shalt thou see
      > > > clearly to pull out the splinter that is in thy
      > > > brother's eye."
      > > >
      > > > In Christ's love,
      > > > Elizabeth
      > > >
      > > > --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "vladimir kozyreff"
      > > > <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
      > > > > I am glad to see that all those who speak
      > about Vl
      > > > Mark describe a
      > > > very
      > > > > knowledgeable and respected person.
      > > > >
      > > > > I do not have the honour of knowing him, but I
      > > > insist that he looks
      > > > > atypical. Below is one more apparent
      > contradiction
      > > > about his
      > > > position.
      > > > >
      > > > > In the "Bulletin" of the German Diocese of
      > Russian
      > > > Orthodox Church
      > > > Abroad of
      > > > > February, 2001, an article entitled " Visit to
      > > > Serbia " describes a
      > > > four-day
      > > > > visit of Serbia by Vl Mark, from February,
      > 4/17
      > > > till February, 8/21.
      > > > The
      > > > > report tells about his visiting a few
      > monasteries
      > > > in which he
      > > > co-celebrated
      > > > > with Serbian priests.
      > > > >
      > > > > The Serbian orthodox church is a member of the
      > > > World Council of
      > > > Churches.
      > > > > The ecumenical movement was anathematised by
      > our
      > > > church in1983. How
      > > > can we
      > > > > reconcliate the anathema of our Church with Vl
      > > > Mark's communion with
      > > > the
      > > > > Serbian Church? Again, I cannot understand Vl
      > > > Mark's position
      > > > relative to
      > > > > our Church's.
      > > > >
      > > > > Do we not expect bishops to act, think and
      > teach
      > > > following the line
      > > > of the
      > > > > Church? Is this co-celebration not a clear
      > > > disobedience to the
      > > > Church,
      > > > > committed in difficult times by a bishop that
      > > > incidently teaches
      > > > obedience
      > > > > to his flock? Does this not add to the
      > confusion
      > > > of an already
      > > > confuse time?
      > > > > Is he anathema for communed with an
      > anatematised
      > > > movement? Or not?
      > > > If not,
      > > > > why? Is this a acceptable question to put?
      > > > >
      > > > > Please explain this to me. I am puzzled. In
      > the
      > > > meantime, 12 priests
      > > > from
      > > > > Western Europe were suspended for
      > "disobeying",
      > > > without having been
      > > > heard by
      > > > > the Synod and without any explanation to the
      > > > believers, except that
      > > > they did
      > > > > not obey.
      > > > >
      > > > > In Christ,
      > > > >
      > > > > Vladimir Kozyreff
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >__________________________________________________
      > >Do You Yahoo!?
      > >Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
      > >http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      === message truncated ===


      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
      http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
    • DCNDIMITRI@aol.com
      In a message dated 06/19/2002 5:34:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Stop patronizing! Your tone is very harsh, what is really at the root of your vile? This
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 19, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        In a message dated 06/19/2002 5:34:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
        kirbart@... writes:

        > I'm getting little bit tired of that nonsence. If they
        > want to protect someone from crossing, wouldn't it be
        > enough to chop off just one finger, so person can't
        > cross himself in the name of Holy Trinity (three
        > fingers) and Two Natures of Christ (two fingers)?
        > Please use your head not only for eating and wearing
        > hats.
        > Regards, Subdeacon Kirill

        Stop patronizing! Your tone is very harsh, what is really at the root of
        your vile? This is not becoming of a subdeacon. You should practice what
        you preach!

        deacon dimitri temidis
      • Andrei Souprounovich
        from the reverse of a card (similar to a postcard) I picked up in Jerusalem, The body of Hieromartyr Filoumenos, who was killed by a fanatic Jew, on the 29th
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 19, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          from the reverse of a card (similar to a postcard) I picked up in Jerusalem,
          "The body of Hieromartyr Filoumenos, who was killed by a fanatic Jew, on the
          29th of November, 1979 in Jakob's well, and it is now located in the chapel,
          of the Greek Orthodox Seminary."

          > That is correct. Someone could still pick up and use a weapon with their
          > left hand, albeit with some difficulty. If the fingers were cut off to
          > prevent combat, then both hands would need to be chopped... in all case
          > that I have heard, it only happened on the right hand.
          >
          > If my memory serves me correctly (about the place where the relics are),
          in
          > the church of the Jerusalem Patriarchate Seminary lie the relics of a
          > martyred monk, killed during the last decades of the XXth Century by some
          > unknown person. His three fingers on the right hand were also cut off
          > before his death. Surely he did not carry a weapon...
          >
          > Hristofor.
        • Fr David Straut
          Dear Subdeacon Kirill, I think that the irritation you show by posting insulting remarks about people with whom you disagree is not only unbecoming of a
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 19, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            Dear Subdeacon Kirill,

            I think that the irritation you show by posting insulting remarks about
            people with whom you disagree is not only unbecoming of a Christian, let
            alone an Orthodox Subdeacon.

            Hoping that you will reconsider, I remain

            Yours in Christ,

            Priest David Straut
            Orthodox Church of St Elizabeth the New-Martyr (ROCOR)
            Somerville, New Jersey

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Kiril Bart" <kirbart@...>
            To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 4:56 PM
            Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] 3 Fingers


            > I'm getting little bit tired of that nonsence. If they
            > want to protect someone from crossing, wouldn't it be
            > enough to chop off just one finger, so person can't
            > cross himself in the name of Holy Trinity (three
            > fingers) and Two Natures of Christ (two fingers)?
            > Please use your head not only for eating and wearing
            > hats.
            > Regards, Subdeacon Kirill
            > --- Hristofor <hristofor@...> wrote:
            > > That is correct. Someone could still pick up and use
            > > a weapon with their
            > > left hand, albeit with some difficulty. If the
            > > fingers were cut off to
            > > prevent combat, then both hands would need to be
            > > chopped... in all case
            > > that I have heard, it only happened on the right
            > > hand.
            > >
            > > If my memory serves me correctly (about the place
            > > where the relics are), in
            > > the church of the Jerusalem Patriarchate Seminary
            > > lie the relics of a
            > > martyred monk, killed during the last decades of the
            > > XXth Century by some
            > > unknown person. His three fingers on the right hand
            > > were also cut off
            > > before his death. Surely he did not carry a
            > > weapon...
            > >
            > > Hristofor.
            > >
            > > At 02:18 PM 6/18/2002, you wrote:
            > > >Hello! This is true. This is the Muslim's way of
            > > spitting at the Orthodox.
            > > >It has been done to Russian soldiers in Chechnya as
            > > well...
            > > >-Nina Ledkovsky
            > > >
            > > >-----Original Message-----
            > > >From: Kiril Bart [mailto:kirbart@...]
            > > >Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 12:11 PM
            > > >To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
            > > >Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Interview with
            > > Vl. Mark
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >Those fingers usually are choppted off to prevent
            > > >person from holding and using firearms, or any
            > > other
            > > >weapons. Try to be more realistic.
            > > > Subdeacon Kirill
            > > >P.S. In Greece if they want to prevent someone from
            > > >crossing himself, they chopped of the whole hand.
            > > >
            > > >--- boulia_1 <eledkovsky@...> wrote:
            > > > > Our Church, since the reprehensible NATO
            > > > > "intervention" (i.e. act of
            > > > > War) in Kosovo, has been praying for the
            > > suffering
            > > > > Orthodox people of
            > > > > Serbia, where a favorite torture of (Islamic)
            > > > > terrorist Albanians has
            > > > > been to cut off the thumb and first two fingers
            > > of
            > > > > their Serb victims,
            > > > > so that they cannot proerly form their hands to
            > > > > cross themselves!
            > > > >
            > > > > Vladyka Antony (Medvedev)of blessed memory was
            > > > > similarly and just as
            > > > > ignorantly criticised for allowing a Serb bishop
            > > to
            > > > > serve in the SF
            > > > > cathedral several years back.
            > > > >
            > > > > Let us not forget, as he then noted from the
            > > Ambo,
            > > > > the important and
            > > > > salvationary role the Serb church played in
            > > > > protecting their Orthodox
            > > > > brethren fleeing the red terror. Indeed, many of
            > > our
            > > > > most esteemed
            > > > > hierarchs were educated in Belgrade (INCLUDING
            > > St.
            > > > > John of
            > > > > Shanghai/S.F.).
            > > > >
            > > > > To make a gross generalization, Serbs may not
            > > all be
            > > > > the most pious of
            > > > > people, but, again, they are our Orthodox
            > > brethren
            > > > > and among the
            > > > > closest of all, historically, to ROCOR. I cannot
            > > > > understand this
            > > > > desire to be so isolationist, or this hunger to
            > > find
            > > > > fault.
            > > > >
            > > > > "And why beholdest thou the splinter that is in
            > > thy
            > > > > brother's eye, but
            > > > > perceivest not the beam that is in thine own
            > > eye?...
            > > > > Thou hypocrite,
            > > > > cast out first the beam out of thine own eye,
            > > and
            > > > > then shalt thou see
            > > > > clearly to pull out the splinter that is in thy
            > > > > brother's eye."
            > > > >
            > > > > In Christ's love,
            > > > > Elizabeth
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "vladimir kozyreff"
            > > > > <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
            > > > > > I am glad to see that all those who speak
            > > about Vl
            > > > > Mark describe a
            > > > > very
            > > > > > knowledgeable and respected person.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I do not have the honour of knowing him, but I
            > > > > insist that he looks
            > > > > > atypical. Below is one more apparent
            > > contradiction
            > > > > about his
            > > > > position.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > In the "Bulletin" of the German Diocese of
            > > Russian
            > > > > Orthodox Church
            > > > > Abroad of
            > > > > > February, 2001, an article entitled " Visit to
            > > > > Serbia " describes a
            > > > > four-day
            > > > > > visit of Serbia by Vl Mark, from February,
            > > 4/17
            > > > > till February, 8/21.
            > > > > The
            > > > > > report tells about his visiting a few
            > > monasteries
            > > > > in which he
            > > > > co-celebrated
            > > > > > with Serbian priests.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > The Serbian orthodox church is a member of the
            > > > > World Council of
            > > > > Churches.
            > > > > > The ecumenical movement was anathematised by
            > > our
            > > > > church in1983. How
            > > > > can we
            > > > > > reconcliate the anathema of our Church with Vl
            > > > > Mark's communion with
            > > > > the
            > > > > > Serbian Church? Again, I cannot understand Vl
            > > > > Mark's position
            > > > > relative to
            > > > > > our Church's.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Do we not expect bishops to act, think and
            > > teach
            > > > > following the line
            > > > > of the
            > > > > > Church? Is this co-celebration not a clear
            > > > > disobedience to the
            > > > > Church,
            > > > > > committed in difficult times by a bishop that
            > > > > incidently teaches
            > > > > obedience
            > > > > > to his flock? Does this not add to the
            > > confusion
            > > > > of an already
            > > > > confuse time?
            > > > > > Is he anathema for communed with an
            > > anatematised
            > > > > movement? Or not?
            > > > > If not,
            > > > > > why? Is this a acceptable question to put?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Please explain this to me. I am puzzled. In
            > > the
            > > > > meantime, 12 priests
            > > > > from
            > > > > > Western Europe were suspended for
            > > "disobeying",
            > > > > without having been
            > > > > heard by
            > > > > > the Synod and without any explanation to the
            > > > > believers, except that
            > > > > they did
            > > > > > not obey.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > In Christ,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Vladimir Kozyreff
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >__________________________________________________
            > > >Do You Yahoo!?
            > > >Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
            > > >http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > === message truncated ===
            >
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
            > http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • DCNDIMITRI@aol.com
            Thank you subdeacon Kirill, for proving me right, again! And again, you should practice what you preach! Maybe you should give some thought to the wise words
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 20, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              Thank you subdeacon Kirill, for proving me right, again! And again, you
              should practice what you preach!

              Maybe you should give some thought to the wise words of Father David.

              deacon dimitri temidis
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.