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Re: [orthodox-synod] An Interview with Archbishop Mark

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  • byakimov@csc.com.au
    Dear Vladimir I was at the time at HTS when he came but he found that the courses offered threre were not to his expectations & so he searched for something
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 11, 2002
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      Dear Vladimir

      I was at the time at HTS when he came but he found that the courses
      offered threre were not to his expectations & so he searched for something
      else.
      The then Bishop Paul did not send him to the USSR - I assume this was
      before he
      came to HTS & probably before Bishop Paul took any involvement in the
      future
      Bishop Mark's future studies.

      unworthy protodeacon basil form Canberra




      "vkozyreff" <vladimir.kozyreff@...> on 12/06/2002 05:32:35 AM

      Please respond to orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com

      To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
      cc:
      Subject: [orthodox-synod] An Interview with Archbishop Mark


      This refers to:

      An Interview with Archbishop Mark by Mark Smirov.

      Regarding this interview, here are a few things which are not clear
      to me:

      Why, as Vl Mark converted to orthodoxy in our Church, did he apply to
      become a monk in Mt Athos? Why did he apply to follow courses of
      theology in The Trinity St Sergius monastery, instead of studying in
      the Jordanville Trinity Monastery? Why did he not refer to his bishop
      for this matter? If he did, why would his bishop have send him there?

      Was Vl Mark not a mmber of the NTS movement? Why does he not allude
      to this in the interview?

      Being a citizen of Eastern Germany in 1969, how come he became a
      student in Heidelberg? In those days, East German students in general
      could not so easily get the blessing of the Stasi to study theology
      in Heidelberg.

      I am puzzled. Can anybody help me?

      In Christ,

      Vladimir Kozyreff





      Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod



      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • Joachim Wertz
      Dear Vladimir, CHRIST IS RISEN! Most if not all of your questions are answered in an interview given by Vl. Mark to Evgeniy Vereshagin that appeared in the
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 11, 2002
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        Dear Vladimir,

        CHRIST IS RISEN!

        Most if not all of your questions are answered in an interview given by Vl.
        Mark to Evgeniy Vereshagin that appeared in the journal "Kontinent", No. 98
        (4) 1998, pp. 280-308, in Russian. Somehow I think you may be able to read
        Russian. I would highly recommend that anyone interested in Vl. Mark and his
        views read this article.

        I do not know what the "NTS movement" is/was. Could you elaborate?

        One simple thing I can clarify for you from the article is that Vl. Mark's
        family left East Germany when he was in his younger years. As to your other
        questions, I do not have the time, at present to translate from the article.
        But I do highly suggest that you find and read it.

        I would offer to send you a photocopy of the article, but mine is not of the
        best quality and I think it would be illegible in parts if I were to copy it
        again. Are you in Belgium? Maybe you can obtain it through what we here call
        "inter-library loan", or perhaps at a university library.

        Another suggestion: If you can read German, take a look at Abp. Mark's
        remarks in the article "Orthodoxe Tagung --Fortsetzung: Einheit--auf
        dogmatischer, aber nicht administrativer Ebene!"
        "Der Bote der deutschen Dioezese der Russischen Orthodoxen Kirche im
        Ausland", No. 2, 1996, pp. 10-15.

        In Christ,

        Joachim Wertz

        ----------
        From: "vkozyreff" <vladimir.kozyreff@...>
        To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [orthodox-synod] An Interview with Archbishop Mark
        Date: Tue, Jun 11, 2002, 3:32 PM


        This refers to:

        An Interview with Archbishop Mark by Mark Smirov.

        Regarding this interview, here are a few things which are not clear
        to me:

        Why, as Vl Mark converted to orthodoxy in our Church, did he apply to
        become a monk in Mt Athos? Why did he apply to follow courses of
        theology in The Trinity St Sergius monastery, instead of studying in
        the Jordanville Trinity Monastery? Why did he not refer to his bishop
        for this matter? If he did, why would his bishop have send him there?

        Was Vl Mark not a mmber of the NTS movement? Why does he not allude
        to this in the interview?

        Being a citizen of Eastern Germany in 1969, how come he became a
        student in Heidelberg? In those days, East German students in general
        could not so easily get the blessing of the Stasi to study theology
        in Heidelberg.

        I am puzzled. Can anybody help me?

        In Christ,

        Vladimir Kozyreff




        Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod



        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
        <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • maureengirard
        You were given an answer on another group site. What do you really want? ... to ... in ... bishop ... there? ... general
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 11, 2002
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          You were given an answer on another group site. What do you really
          want?

          --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "vkozyreff" <vladimir.kozyreff@s...>
          wrote:
          > This refers to:
          >
          > An Interview with Archbishop Mark by Mark Smirov.
          >
          > Regarding this interview, here are a few things which are not clear
          > to me:
          >
          > Why, as Vl Mark converted to orthodoxy in our Church, did he apply
          to
          > become a monk in Mt Athos? Why did he apply to follow courses of
          > theology in The Trinity St Sergius monastery, instead of studying
          in
          > the Jordanville Trinity Monastery? Why did he not refer to his
          bishop
          > for this matter? If he did, why would his bishop have send him
          there?
          >
          > Was Vl Mark not a mmber of the NTS movement? Why does he not allude
          > to this in the interview?
          >
          > Being a citizen of Eastern Germany in 1969, how come he became a
          > student in Heidelberg? In those days, East German students in
          general
          > could not so easily get the blessing of the Stasi to study theology
          > in Heidelberg.
          >
          > I am puzzled. Can anybody help me?
          >
          > In Christ,
          >
          > Vladimir Kozyreff
        • stefanvpavlenko
          All your comments about Archbishop Mark are off base, for one thing he did not study in Holy Trinity Saint Sergious in Moscow!, and all the rest is off also!
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 11, 2002
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            All your comments about Archbishop Mark are off base, for one thing he
            did not study in Holy Trinity Saint Sergious in Moscow!, and all the
            rest is off also!
            Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko


            --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "vkozyreff" <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
            > This refers to:
            >
            > An Interview with Archbishop Mark by Mark Smirov.
            >
            > Regarding this interview, here are a few things which are not clear
            > to me:
            >
            > Why, as Vl Mark converted to orthodoxy in our Church, did he apply to
            > become a monk in Mt Athos? Why did he apply to follow courses of
            > theology in The Trinity St Sergius monastery, instead of studying in
            > the Jordanville Trinity Monastery? Why did he not refer to his bishop
            > for this matter? If he did, why would his bishop have send him there?
            >
            > Was Vl Mark not a mmber of the NTS movement? Why does he not allude
            > to this in the interview?
            >
            > Being a citizen of Eastern Germany in 1969, how come he became a
            > student in Heidelberg? In those days, East German students in general
            > could not so easily get the blessing of the Stasi to study theology
            > in Heidelberg.
            >
            > I am puzzled. Can anybody help me?
            >
            > In Christ,
            >
            > Vladimir Kozyreff
          • boulia_1
            The most highly esteemed and beloved O. Stefan was probably pulling an all-nighter baking prosfora when he posted this. I have deepest respect for the erudite,
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 12, 2002
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              The most highly esteemed and beloved O. Stefan was probably pulling an
              all-nighter baking prosfora when he posted this.

              I have deepest respect for the erudite, intelligent, and deeply
              faithful Vladyka Mark (now 'my' Bishop as I live in Germany)... but
              if I may respectfully point out to my dearest O. Stefan that what
              he says are off base comments are really just questions that arise
              from the interview and biographical sketch of Abp. Mark that's been
              zipping around cyberspace the last few days.

              In that piece, it IS mentioned that he was born in Chemnitz (part of
              the DDR East Germany) but educated in Heidelberg (West Germany) -- the
              missing link was how he got from east to west, which, by the time
              Michael Arndt was old enough to be a university student, wasn't easy,
              what, with the infamous wall and other border tightenings that went on
              in the early 60s. ...

              It also says that he had both tried to enter Mt. Athos and had applied
              to Holy Trinity/St. Sergius Lavra seminary, but after a long wait, was
              rejected.

              I think the questions are honest; I don't think they necessarily must
              be seen as an attack on Vladyka Mark, though it may belie a primitive
              (fundamentalist) attitude (forgive my judging words!) about how
              attention to jurisdictional lines constitutes constitutes loyalty to
              the True Church.

              I personally think ROCOR is blessed to have such a well-educated
              leader, having seen much of the world beyond the familiar interior
              walls of his own house.

              Respectfully,
              Elizabeth

              --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "stefanvpavlenko" <StefanVPavlenko@n...>
              wrote:
              > All your comments about Archbishop Mark are off base, for one thing
              he
              > did not study in Holy Trinity Saint Sergious in Moscow!, and all the
              > rest is off also!
              > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
              >
              >
              > --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "vkozyreff" <vladimir.kozyreff@s...>
              wrote:
              > > This refers to:
              > >
              > > An Interview with Archbishop Mark by Mark Smirov.
              > >
              > > Regarding this interview, here are a few things which are not
              clear
              > > to me:
              > >
              > > Why, as Vl Mark converted to orthodoxy in our Church, did he apply
              to
              > > become a monk in Mt Athos? Why did he apply to follow courses of
              > > theology in The Trinity St Sergius monastery, instead of studying
              in
              > > the Jordanville Trinity Monastery? Why did he not refer to his
              bishop
              > > for this matter? If he did, why would his bishop have send him
              there?
              > >
              > > Was Vl Mark not a mmber of the NTS movement? Why does he not
              allude
              > > to this in the interview?
              > >
              > > Being a citizen of Eastern Germany in 1969, how come he became a
              > > student in Heidelberg? In those days, East German students in
              general
              > > could not so easily get the blessing of the Stasi to study
              theology
              > > in Heidelberg.
              > >
              > > I am puzzled. Can anybody help me?
              > >
              > > In Christ,
              > >
              > > Vladimir Kozyreff
            • vladimir kozyreff
              Dear Joachim, dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ, Thank you for your reply. I have more questions: when a bishop gives such an interview, does he express the
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 12, 2002
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                Dear Joachim, dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

                Thank you for your reply.

                I have more questions: when a bishop gives such an interview, does he
                express the meaning of the Church or his own?

                If he does not express the meaning of the Church, has he the right to do so
                and should he not make clear whom he represents?

                Is it the understanding of our Church that the MP is really the Church of
                Russia? In spite of having been founded by Stalin with the purpose of
                eradicating the real Church and having performed that mission with a certain
                success?

                If there are "stalinist" elements in the MP, is Patriarch Alexis II not the
                most stalinist of them all? Was it then well advised to have so frequent
                contacts with him? Especially against the opinion of the Metropolitan?

                Will our Church really seek legitimacy from an "autocephaly" obtained from
                the MP, as Friest Potapov once suggested, thus renouncing the legitimacy she
                once received from Partiarch Tikhon?

                Will our Church abandon all intention she may have had and all mission she
                may have received to return to Russia to be fully the legitimate Church in
                Russia again?

                What will the difference be with the OCA? Especially if our Church is bound
                to loose its Russian character and to receive its autocephaly from the MP,
                in spite of the latter considering the Latino-catholics as a "Sister Church"
                and continuing to proclaim that collaborating with Stalin, excommunicating
                the Martyrs (to re-instate them afterwards) and failing in those days to
                confess Christ before men is what saved the Church?

                Is the Synod of our Church totally free of contradictions? Did it not state
                first that it disapproved Vl Michael's failed attempt to take Vl Vitaly back
                to NY? Did it not later fail to issue any apology to Vl Vitaly? Why did it
                not even officially distance itself from the violence that took place and
                did it then promote Vl Michael after all as though nothing had happened? Is
                this an extremist question on my behalf?

                If the Synod did consider the complaint filed against Vl Ambrosius as
                futile, why did it not fulfil its guidance duty by explaining this to the
                believers?

                Please, brothers and sisters in Christs, do not insult me but be so kind as
                to explain to me if you will be so kind.

                May God have mercy!

                In Christ,

                Vladimir Kozyreff

                -----Message d'origine-----
                De : Joachim Wertz [mailto:wertz@...]
                Envoye : mercredi 12 juin 2002 2:26
                A : orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                Cc : orthodox-tradition@yahoogroups.com
                Objet : Re: [orthodox-synod] An Interview with Archbishop Mark


                Dear Vladimir,

                CHRIST IS RISEN!

                Most if not all of your questions are answered in an interview given by Vl.
                Mark to Evgeniy Vereshagin that appeared in the journal "Kontinent", No. 98
                (4) 1998, pp. 280-308, in Russian. Somehow I think you may be able to read
                Russian. I would highly recommend that anyone interested in Vl. Mark and his
                views read this article.

                I do not know what the "NTS movement" is/was. Could you elaborate?

                One simple thing I can clarify for you from the article is that Vl. Mark's
                family left East Germany when he was in his younger years. As to your other
                questions, I do not have the time, at present to translate from the article.
                But I do highly suggest that you find and read it.

                I would offer to send you a photocopy of the article, but mine is not of the
                best quality and I think it would be illegible in parts if I were to copy it
                again. Are you in Belgium? Maybe you can obtain it through what we here call
                "inter-library loan", or perhaps at a university library.

                Another suggestion: If you can read German, take a look at Abp. Mark's
                remarks in the article "Orthodoxe Tagung --Fortsetzung: Einheit--auf
                dogmatischer, aber nicht administrativer Ebene!"
                "Der Bote der deutschen Dioezese der Russischen Orthodoxen Kirche im
                Ausland", No. 2, 1996, pp. 10-15.

                In Christ,

                Joachim Wertz

                ----------
                From: "vkozyreff" <vladimir.kozyreff@...>
                To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [orthodox-synod] An Interview with Archbishop Mark
                Date: Tue, Jun 11, 2002, 3:32 PM


                This refers to:

                An Interview with Archbishop Mark by Mark Smirov.

                Regarding this interview, here are a few things which are not clear
                to me:

                Why, as Vl Mark converted to orthodoxy in our Church, did he apply to
                become a monk in Mt Athos? Why did he apply to follow courses of
                theology in The Trinity St Sergius monastery, instead of studying in
                the Jordanville Trinity Monastery? Why did he not refer to his bishop
                for this matter? If he did, why would his bishop have send him there?

                Was Vl Mark not a mmber of the NTS movement? Why does he not allude
                to this in the interview?

                Being a citizen of Eastern Germany in 1969, how come he became a
                student in Heidelberg? In those days, East German students in general
                could not so easily get the blessing of the Stasi to study theology
                in Heidelberg.

                I am puzzled. Can anybody help me?

                In Christ,

                Vladimir Kozyreff




                Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod



                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod



                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • Joachim Wertz
                Dear Vladimir, Let me reply to your first questions. In the interviews he gave, Vl. Mark seems to me to make clear whenever he is voicing his own opinion. In
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 12, 2002
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                  Dear Vladimir,
                  Let me reply to your first questions. In the interviews he gave, Vl. Mark
                  seems to me to make clear whenever he is voicing his own opinion. In his
                  remarks at the roundtable discussion printed in "Der Bote", Vl. Mark gives
                  his opinion that the Synod Abroad is PART of the Russian Church, the other
                  parts being the MP and the Catacomb Church. He states also his opinion that
                  since the '70's there remained no true catacomb bishop. I decline to answer
                  your other questions in that they involve speculation and personal opinions.
                  However in the two interviews, I believe, Vl. Mark does not speak of
                  "autocephaly". Personally, I gather from reading his words, that Vl. Mark is
                  more critical and less optimistic about the MP than some other people in the
                  ROCOR, but on the other hand more realistic.

                  In Christ,

                  Joachim Wertz

                  ----------
                  From: "vladimir kozyreff" <vladimir.kozyreff@...>
                  To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: RE: [orthodox-synod] An Interview with Archbishop Mark
                  Date: Wed, Jun 12, 2002, 4:37 PM


                  Dear Joachim, dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

                  Thank you for your reply.

                  I have more questions: when a bishop gives such an interview, does he
                  express the meaning of the Church or his own?

                  If he does not express the meaning of the Church, has he the right to do so
                  and should he not make clear whom he represents?

                  Is it the understanding of our Church that the MP is really the Church of
                  Russia? In spite of having been founded by Stalin with the purpose of
                  eradicating the real Church and having performed that mission with a certain
                  success?

                  If there are "stalinist" elements in the MP, is Patriarch Alexis II not the
                  most stalinist of them all? Was it then well advised to have so frequent
                  contacts with him? Especially against the opinion of the Metropolitan?

                  Will our Church really seek legitimacy from an "autocephaly" obtained from
                  the MP, as Friest Potapov once suggested, thus renouncing the legitimacy she
                  once received from Partiarch Tikhon?

                  Will our Church abandon all intention she may have had and all mission she
                  may have received to return to Russia to be fully the legitimate Church in
                  Russia again?

                  What will the difference be with the OCA? Especially if our Church is bound
                  to loose its Russian character and to receive its autocephaly from the MP,
                  in spite of the latter considering the Latino-catholics as a "Sister Church"
                  and continuing to proclaim that collaborating with Stalin, excommunicating
                  the Martyrs (to re-instate them afterwards) and failing in those days to
                  confess Christ before men is what saved the Church?

                  Is the Synod of our Church totally free of contradictions? Did it not state
                  first that it disapproved Vl Michael's failed attempt to take Vl Vitaly back
                  to NY? Did it not later fail to issue any apology to Vl Vitaly? Why did it
                  not even officially distance itself from the violence that took place and
                  did it then promote Vl Michael after all as though nothing had happened? Is
                  this an extremist question on my behalf?

                  If the Synod did consider the complaint filed against Vl Ambrosius as
                  futile, why did it not fulfil its guidance duty by explaining this to the
                  believers?

                  Please, brothers and sisters in Christs, do not insult me but be so kind as
                  to explain to me if you will be so kind.

                  May God have mercy!

                  In Christ,

                  Vladimir Kozyreff

                  -----Message d'origine-----
                  De : Joachim Wertz [mailto:wertz@...]
                  Envoye : mercredi 12 juin 2002 2:26
                  A : orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                  Cc : orthodox-tradition@yahoogroups.com
                  Objet : Re: [orthodox-synod] An Interview with Archbishop Mark


                  Dear Vladimir,

                  CHRIST IS RISEN!

                  Most if not all of your questions are answered in an interview given by Vl.
                  Mark to Evgeniy Vereshagin that appeared in the journal "Kontinent", No. 98
                  (4) 1998, pp. 280-308, in Russian. Somehow I think you may be able to read
                  Russian. I would highly recommend that anyone interested in Vl. Mark and his
                  views read this article.

                  I do not know what the "NTS movement" is/was. Could you elaborate?

                  One simple thing I can clarify for you from the article is that Vl. Mark's
                  family left East Germany when he was in his younger years. As to your other
                  questions, I do not have the time, at present to translate from the article.
                  But I do highly suggest that you find and read it.

                  I would offer to send you a photocopy of the article, but mine is not of the
                  best quality and I think it would be illegible in parts if I were to copy it
                  again. Are you in Belgium? Maybe you can obtain it through what we here call
                  "inter-library loan", or perhaps at a university library.

                  Another suggestion: If you can read German, take a look at Abp. Mark's
                  remarks in the article "Orthodoxe Tagung --Fortsetzung: Einheit--auf
                  dogmatischer, aber nicht administrativer Ebene!"
                  "Der Bote der deutschen Dioezese der Russischen Orthodoxen Kirche im
                  Ausland", No. 2, 1996, pp. 10-15.

                  In Christ,

                  Joachim Wertz

                  ----------
                  From: "vkozyreff" <vladimir.kozyreff@...>
                  To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [orthodox-synod] An Interview with Archbishop Mark
                  Date: Tue, Jun 11, 2002, 3:32 PM


                  This refers to:

                  An Interview with Archbishop Mark by Mark Smirov.

                  Regarding this interview, here are a few things which are not clear
                  to me:

                  Why, as Vl Mark converted to orthodoxy in our Church, did he apply to
                  become a monk in Mt Athos? Why did he apply to follow courses of
                  theology in The Trinity St Sergius monastery, instead of studying in
                  the Jordanville Trinity Monastery? Why did he not refer to his bishop
                  for this matter? If he did, why would his bishop have send him there?

                  Was Vl Mark not a mmber of the NTS movement? Why does he not allude
                  to this in the interview?

                  Being a citizen of Eastern Germany in 1969, how come he became a
                  student in Heidelberg? In those days, East German students in general
                  could not so easily get the blessing of the Stasi to study theology
                  in Heidelberg.

                  I am puzzled. Can anybody help me?

                  In Christ,

                  Vladimir Kozyreff




                  Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod



                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                  <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod



                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/






                  Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod



                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                  <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • stefanvpavlenko
                  I stand corrected! Actually, I m sitting at my computer... One more time! XPICTOC BOCKRECE! CHRIST IS RISEN! o Stefan P.
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 12, 2002
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                    I stand corrected!

                    Actually, I'm sitting at my computer...

                    One more time!

                    XPICTOC BOCKRECE!
                    CHRIST IS RISEN!
                    o Stefan P.


                    --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "boulia_1" <eledkovsky@h...> wrote:
                    > The most highly esteemed and beloved O. Stefan was probably pulling an
                    > all-nighter baking prosfora when he posted this.
                    >
                    > I have deepest respect for the erudite, intelligent, and deeply
                    > faithful Vladyka Mark (now 'my' Bishop as I live in Germany)... but
                    > if I may respectfully point out to my dearest O. Stefan that what
                    > he says are off base comments are really just questions that arise
                    > from the interview and biographical sketch of Abp. Mark that's been
                    > zipping around cyberspace the last few days.
                    >
                    > In that piece, it IS mentioned that he was born in Chemnitz (part of
                    > the DDR East Germany) but educated in Heidelberg (West Germany) -- the
                    > missing link was how he got from east to west, which, by the time
                    > Michael Arndt was old enough to be a university student, wasn't easy,
                    > what, with the infamous wall and other border tightenings that went on
                    > in the early 60s. ...
                    >
                    > It also says that he had both tried to enter Mt. Athos and had applied
                    > to Holy Trinity/St. Sergius Lavra seminary, but after a long wait, was
                    > rejected.
                    >
                    > I think the questions are honest; I don't think they necessarily must
                    > be seen as an attack on Vladyka Mark, though it may belie a primitive
                    > (fundamentalist) attitude (forgive my judging words!) about how
                    > attention to jurisdictional lines constitutes constitutes loyalty to
                    > the True Church.
                    >
                    > I personally think ROCOR is blessed to have such a well-educated
                    > leader, having seen much of the world beyond the familiar interior
                    > walls of his own house.
                    >
                    > Respectfully,
                    > Elizabeth
                    >
                    > --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "stefanvpavlenko" <StefanVPavlenko@n...>
                    > wrote:
                    > > All your comments about Archbishop Mark are off base, for one thing
                    > he
                    > > did not study in Holy Trinity Saint Sergious in Moscow!, and all the
                    > > rest is off also!
                    > > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "vkozyreff" <vladimir.kozyreff@s...>
                    > wrote:
                    > > > This refers to:
                    > > >
                    > > > An Interview with Archbishop Mark by Mark Smirov.
                    > > >
                    > > > Regarding this interview, here are a few things which are not
                    > clear
                    > > > to me:
                    > > >
                    > > > Why, as Vl Mark converted to orthodoxy in our Church, did he apply
                    > to
                    > > > become a monk in Mt Athos? Why did he apply to follow courses of
                    > > > theology in The Trinity St Sergius monastery, instead of studying
                    > in
                    > > > the Jordanville Trinity Monastery? Why did he not refer to his
                    > bishop
                    > > > for this matter? If he did, why would his bishop have send him
                    > there?
                    > > >
                    > > > Was Vl Mark not a mmber of the NTS movement? Why does he not
                    > allude
                    > > > to this in the interview?
                    > > >
                    > > > Being a citizen of Eastern Germany in 1969, how come he became a
                    > > > student in Heidelberg? In those days, East German students in
                    > general
                    > > > could not so easily get the blessing of the Stasi to study
                    > theology
                    > > > in Heidelberg.
                    > > >
                    > > > I am puzzled. Can anybody help me?
                    > > >
                    > > > In Christ,
                    > > >
                    > > > Vladimir Kozyreff
                  • vladimir kozyreff
                    Dear List, A concept which is often debated is the canonical territory . In his latest inteviw in
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 23, 2002
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                      Dear List,

                      A concept which is often debated is the "canonical territory". In his latest
                      inteviw in < Nezavisimaya gazeta", Vl Mark says:

                      - The concept of " canonical territory " is an innovation! This term never
                      earlier in Church existed, and it is better to not use it because it turns
                      the attention away from thre essential...

                      http://religion.ng.ru/people/2002-06-05/1_looking.html

                      It seems in fact that the concept is not that new. The Church has always
                      been organised on a territorial basis. A diocese is a territory.

                      Below is a reference that documents this idea.

                      In Christ,

                      Vladimir Kozyreff


                      The Patriarchate of Moscow, as the local Church and in accordance with its
                      official founding ecclesiastical Acts, also has its canonical jurisdiction
                      with geographical boundaries and geographical restrictions, according once
                      again to the canonical teaching and ecclesiology of the Orthodox Church.

                      Its canonical jurisdiction - "the territory" - extends "to all Russia",
                      namely as noted also above, within the boundaries of the Russian dominion
                      and not beyond these.

                      http://www.orthodoxa.org/orthodoxie/droit%20canon/russianterritory.htm
                    • vladimir kozyreff
                      Dear List, In his June 5, 2002 interview to Nezavisimaya gazeta , Vl Mark says: - In the remote prospect there could be a form of coexistence, and a further
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jun 23, 2002
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                        Dear List,

                        In his June 5, 2002 interview to "Nezavisimaya gazeta", Vl Mark says:

                        - "In the remote prospect there could be a form of coexistence, and a
                        further dialogue in the form which was described already by Patriarch Aleksy
                        II.

                        - In one of the interviews he gave, he recognised natural, that the ROCOR
                        part of the Russian Church has a life, features which were developed for 80
                        years, and nobody should bury them into oblivion.

                        - For example, among our parishioners there are a a lot of non-Russians. We
                        thus in many respects differ from the Russian parishes.

                        - Any model of a mutual recognition which gradually would pass in the form
                        of an autonomy is therefore necessary".

                        http://religion.ng.ru/people/2002-06-05/1_looking.html

                        I cannot understand Vl Mark's concept of "mutual recognition".

                        - If the MP will renounce sergianism, ecumenism etc. and convert, we will be
                        all part of the Russian Church and there would be no object for any "mutual
                        recognition". Our "recognition" is automatic for all that have converted,
                        without any declaration of any kind, in the same way that martyrs are
                        recognised as saints, automatically, without any canonisation.

                        - If the MP will not renounce sergianism, ecumenism etc., then there can be
                        no recognition whatsoever on our part. The Church recognises only those and
                        all those who follow Christ and His teaching, and make no concession to the
                        worldly powers.

                        - What is the autonomy Vl Mark is talking about? Did we not receive our
                        autonomy from Patriarch Tikhon? Is the MP not autonomous too (except its
                        links with the KGB)?

                        - Is there now no "form of coexistence"? Both the MP and the ROCOR do
                        coexist.

                        I have another proposal:

                        - If the MP does convert, we will be reunited with our Russian brothers and
                        sisters. We pray for it every day.

                        - Both the ROCOR and the present "MP" will cease to exist and there will be
                        only "the Russian Church".

                        - The believers that the ROCOR will leave behind her and that have no
                        particular relation to Russia (it seems that they have become many)will
                        found other Churches, named after the countries in which they live. These
                        Churches will eventually reunite with local "orthodox" when the latter do
                        convert, if there is no real local Church already. If there is one, there
                        will be no reason for them not to join them. The Russian Church will keep a
                        presence abroad, for the numerous Russian (or affiliated) population
                        disseminated world wide. Anybody will be welcome to pray in her churches.
                        Vl Mark will probably be part of the German Orthodox Church. Our hihghest
                        hierarch will be the Patriarch of Moscow and all Russias. May God allow this
                        to happen!

                        In God,

                        Vladimir Kozyreff
                      • joeswaydyn2000
                        ... hihghest ... allow this ... Why is it that the All-Russian Sobor appears to have been forgotten and replaced with dialogues ? No matter what position
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jun 24, 2002
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                          --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "vladimir kozyreff"
                          <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:

                          > Vl Mark will probably be part of the German Orthodox Church. Our
                          hihghest
                          > hierarch will be the Patriarch of Moscow and all Russias. May God
                          allow this
                          > to happen!

                          Why is it that the 'All-Russian Sobor' appears to have been forgotten
                          and replaced with 'dialogues'? No matter what position you take
                          toward the MP (mine is negative) I thought the Russian Church
                          situation would be resolved when the whole Russian Church is
                          represented. Just a thought.
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