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Re: The lowly ROCOR website - nothing to say

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  • Priest Seraphim Holland
    ... I am not the webmaster, and have not been since the Sobor. I am told that there is an ukaz, but have not seen one. I was only told on the telephone. I
    Message 1 of 22 , Feb 1, 2002
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      The Society for Orthodox Truth said:
      > Fr. Seraphim was speaking of a different situation, he was speaking of,
      > if the ROCOR has nothing to say, then all the systems people in the
      > world can't help.

      I am not the webmaster, and have not been since the Sobor. I am told that
      there is an ukaz, but have not seen one. I was only told on the telephone.

      I stand by my criticism of our church.

      I scratched and clawed for years, getting information, stories, even
      BEGGING for letters to be written (such as after 911). We are so entrenched
      and fearful of the implications of discussion with the MP that we are
      paralyzed. We hurl jargon, and invent heresies to oppose (Sergianism is a
      sin, and a terrible sin, but not a heresy, and not unlike other occurrences
      in Orthodox history).

      I am quite despondent about our church's lack of vision, activity,
      information dissemination (see the very top of this letter), courage and
      compassion (if we care about Russia, we should be the "big brother" and be
      brotherly and conciliatory (and no, this does not mean immediate union, or
      giving up our principles), instead, we are more like the "elder son").

      I was involved in investigating, upon the orders of my hierarchy (after
      MANY calls and emails from me and many others) serious perversion in our
      church. My report was not acted on. Another one preceding mine was not
      acted on. When the guy cut and ran (no duh, we did not bother to address
      the situation early, and later, it was clear to me that we were waiting for
      the inevitable), we washed our hands with relief. I BEGGED for archpastoral
      HANDS ON intervention, to talk face to face with the people who had been
      spiritually harmed, and I got excuses. I offered to be the driver and guide
      to all the places. Excuses.

      If we cannot show compassion for our flock, then all the Sobor letters,
      infrequent as they are (which are good, in and of themselves) are not
      enough.

      I have a large problem with perspective concerning our church, and
      her "noble" stand regarding the MP, because I have seen in the specific
      situations, in the trenches that our church had no spine, and no heart. I
      see the results of sexual predation every day, as I have adopted 2 abused
      children. It is real ugly. I know that there are others who are getting no
      help, or even any indication that we (as a hierarch, I sure showed I cared,
      but I am just a foot soldier) CARED.

      If we have no heart, we have nothing to say.

      I have all the skills needed to do a web page right, and am doing some
      things on my church's web page (http://www.orthodox.net)that I do not
      believe are being done anywhere else. I do not have the skills needed to
      create heart.

      > But without constructive criticism, we would not be where we are in
      > life as a society.
      >
      > If you settle for less, then why even begin??
      >
      > But people with large pride, cannot take constructive criticism..
      >
      > The ROCOR priests, at least some of them, can take criticism
      > constructively, because they try to strive to be the best priest they
      > can for their flock.. Archbishop Andrei of Novo-Diveevo was a good
      > example.
      >
      > Try and do your best, and when your best isn't good enough, then pass
      > it on to someone who's best in this particular field is better than
      > what you can accomplish.
      >
      > George is right..... Bring someone else in. Who can do a better job.
      > I heard Patrick Barnes' name brought up. Patrick Barnes is a good
      > example, and he loves to help the Church.. He's a good man, take a
      > look at the website he did for himself : http://www.orthodoxinfo.com
      >
      > Nektarius
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "musqg" <malloy.2@...>
      > To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 5:40 PM
      > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: The lowly Rocor website
      >
      >
      >> --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "Priest Seraphim Holland" <seraphim@o...>
      >> wrote:
      >> > If we have nothing to say (except for a few letters hurled out of
      >> the silence), all the systems people in the world cannot help.
      >>
      >> I'm with Father Serahim on this one.
      >>
      >> In my own words, I would say if you can't say anything nice about
      >> someone's efforts, why are you saying anything?
      >>
      >> Reader Michael Malloy
      >> Columbus Ohio
    • catherine elaine sullivan
      Father- It seems to me that there is an attitude in our church that to be too technological is somehow anti-spiritual. While I do not agree- the internet CAN
      Message 2 of 22 , Feb 1, 2002
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        Father- It seems to me that there is an attitude in our church that to be too
        technological is somehow anti-spiritual. While I do not agree- the internet
        CAN be a powerful tool for education and information- I think that many in
        ROCOR do. That may explain this attitude. I would like, for instance, to have
        a Christian Education website online, which would be available to church school
        teachers,parents and others. (This is my field.) But, I once tried to do
        something of the sort through Yahoo clubs, and there was NO interest. I do
        understand and sympathize!

        =====
        Catherine

        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
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      • Sandra Thompson
        ... That is hard to believe. Someone started an Orthodox mom s club and it went on.
        Message 3 of 22 , Feb 1, 2002
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          > I would like, for instance, to have
          >a Christian Education website online, which would be available to church
          >school
          >teachers,parents and others. (This is my field.) But, I once tried to do
          >something of the sort through Yahoo clubs, and there was NO interest.

          That is hard to believe. Someone started an Orthodox mom's club and it went on.
        • vkozyreff
          Dear Father Seraphim, You write: Sergianism is a sin, and a terrible sin, but not a heresy, and not unlike other occurrences in Orthodox history . Let me
          Message 4 of 22 , Feb 4, 2002
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            Dear Father Seraphim,



            You write: "Sergianism is a sin, and a terrible sin, but not a
            heresy, and not unlike other occurrences in Orthodox history".



            Let me respectfully state that I disagree with you. First, let us
            distinguish two things that are called "Sergianism":



            1. The conduct that consists in following Bishop Sergius's teaching
            in deeds.

            2. A teaching stating that bishop Sergius's tactics did save the
            Church.



            Both of them are heretical.



            Concerning (1), Patriarch Tikhon has anathematised those who
            collaborated with the atheist government. To anathematise a conduct
            is to declare it officially contrary to the teaching of the Church,
            that is contrary to the teaching of Christ. A conduct that is
            contrary to the teaching of Christ is heretical.



            (2) is more important for us. Nobody, for the moment does collaborate
            with the communist government any longer. We are told that this is a
            thing of the past. Let it be. Nevertheless, the teaching that
            Sergianism has saved the Church in Russia is presently actively
            promoted by the MP. In our Church, this teaching is tolerated as not
            heretical by those who are tired to stand for the Truth or are
            seduced by the idea of re-union at the expense of the Truth. Claiming
            that Sergianism has saved the Church is heretical because:



            Patriarch Tikhon declared the collaboration of the Church with the
            Bolsheviks anathema. Metropolitan Sergius did just what the Patriarch
            had anathematised. An anathematised conduct cannot save the Church.
            Believing it or teaching that it can is heretical.
            You write yourself that Sergianism is a great sin. Claiming the
            opposite is heretical. Claiming that a great sin has saved the Church
            is heretical too.
            In general, claiming that an action has saved the Church means either
            that it pleased God, or that it did save the Church in spite of it
            not pleasing God. Claiming that calling the martyrs
            counterrevolutionaries and excluding them from the Church pleased God
            is heretical. Claiming that bishop Sergius saved the Church by an
            action that displeased God is heretical too.


            It is important to know that heresies are not only proposals that
            explicit contradict explicit proposals of the Creed. There are other
            heresies than those that have been declared heresies by the seven
            Councils. We were warned by Metropolitan Philaret. The heresies that
            we face now are more subtle and dangerous than the past ones. Now, we
            can see it.



            Becoming tolerant to heresies is one of the most terrible dangers for
            our Church. Everything in this world invites us to unite with
            schismatics and heretics and to acknowledge that we all "pray the
            same God". Patriarch Alexis just declared to the Pope of Rome that
            the orthodox and the "catholic" Church are both based on tradition.
            As soon as the "catholic proselytism" ends, talks about unity will
            start, he said. Look at those orthodox who forget the heretical
            nature of the schisms that have separated most of mankind from
            orthodoxy, and that are ready to join them in the heresy.



            In Christ, and begging your prayers



            VK









            --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "Priest Seraphim Holland" <seraphim@o...>
            wrote:
            > The Society for Orthodox Truth said:
            > > Fr. Seraphim was speaking of a different situation, he was
            speaking of,
            > > if the ROCOR has nothing to say, then all the systems people in
            the
            > > world can't help.
            >
            > I am not the webmaster, and have not been since the Sobor. I am
            told that
            > there is an ukaz, but have not seen one. I was only told on the
            telephone.
            >
            > I stand by my criticism of our church.
            >
            > I scratched and clawed for years, getting information, stories, even
            > BEGGING for letters to be written (such as after 911). We are so
            entrenched
            > and fearful of the implications of discussion with the MP that we
            are
            > paralyzed. We hurl jargon, and invent heresies to oppose
            (Sergianism is a
            > sin, and a terrible sin, but not a heresy, and not unlike other
            occurrences
            > in Orthodox history).
            >
            > I am quite despondent about our church's lack of vision, activity,
            > information dissemination (see the very top of this letter),
            courage and
            > compassion (if we care about Russia, we should be the "big brother"
            and be
            > brotherly and conciliatory (and no, this does not mean immediate
            union, or
            > giving up our principles), instead, we are more like the "elder
            son").
            >
            > I was involved in investigating, upon the orders of my hierarchy
            (after
            > MANY calls and emails from me and many others) serious perversion
            in our
            > church. My report was not acted on. Another one preceding mine was
            not
            > acted on. When the guy cut and ran (no duh, we did not bother to
            address
            > the situation early, and later, it was clear to me that we were
            waiting for
            > the inevitable), we washed our hands with relief. I BEGGED for
            archpastoral
            > HANDS ON intervention, to talk face to face with the people who had
            been
            > spiritually harmed, and I got excuses. I offered to be the driver
            and guide
            > to all the places. Excuses.
            >
            > If we cannot show compassion for our flock, then all the Sobor
            letters,
            > infrequent as they are (which are good, in and of themselves) are
            not
            > enough.
            >
            > I have a large problem with perspective concerning our church, and
            > her "noble" stand regarding the MP, because I have seen in the
            specific
            > situations, in the trenches that our church had no spine, and no
            heart. I
            > see the results of sexual predation every day, as I have adopted 2
            abused
            > children. It is real ugly. I know that there are others who are
            getting no
            > help, or even any indication that we (as a hierarch, I sure showed
            I cared,
            > but I am just a foot soldier) CARED.
            >
            > If we have no heart, we have nothing to say.
            >
            > I have all the skills needed to do a web page right, and am doing
            some
            > things on my church's web page (http://www.orthodox.net)that I do
            not
            > believe are being done anywhere else. I do not have the skills
            needed to
            > create heart.
            >
            > > But without constructive criticism, we would not be where we are
            in
            > > life as a society.
            > >
            > > If you settle for less, then why even begin??
            > >
            > > But people with large pride, cannot take constructive criticism..
            > >
            > > The ROCOR priests, at least some of them, can take criticism
            > > constructively, because they try to strive to be the best priest
            they
            > > can for their flock.. Archbishop Andrei of Novo-Diveevo was a good
            > > example.
            > >
            > > Try and do your best, and when your best isn't good enough, then
            pass
            > > it on to someone who's best in this particular field is better
            than
            > > what you can accomplish.
            > >
            > > George is right..... Bring someone else in. Who can do a better
            job.
            > > I heard Patrick Barnes' name brought up. Patrick Barnes is a good
            > > example, and he loves to help the Church.. He's a good man, take
            a
            > > look at the website he did for himself :
            http://www.orthodoxinfo.com
            > >
            > > Nektarius
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "musqg" <malloy.2@o...>
            > > To: <orthodox-synod@y...>
            > > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 5:40 PM
            > > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: The lowly Rocor website
            > >
            > >
            > >> --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "Priest Seraphim Holland"
            <seraphim@o...>
            > >> wrote:
            > >> > If we have nothing to say (except for a few letters hurled out
            of
            > >> the silence), all the systems people in the world cannot help.
            > >>
            > >> I'm with Father Serahim on this one.
            > >>
            > >> In my own words, I would say if you can't say anything nice about
            > >> someone's efforts, why are you saying anything?
            > >>
            > >> Reader Michael Malloy
            > >> Columbus Ohio
          • Robert Kearney
            As I recall, did not Patriarch Tikhon also collaborate with the Soviet authorities after he was released from prison in 1923? Did not he recognize the treaty
            Message 5 of 22 , Feb 4, 2002
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              As I recall, did not Patriarch Tikhon also collaborate
              with the Soviet authorities after he was released from
              prison in 1923? Did not he recognize the treaty of
              Brest Lovak and called upon the people to support the
              Soviet government? Would not this actions have also
              placed this holy man under his own anathema? Prehaps
              this are things that the people who constantly shout
              about this particular event should take time out to
              think about what they are saying instead of just
              shouting words out in judgment?
              Remeber, Christ said, "Treat others the way that you
              would want to be treated." THe same judgment that you
              give to others shall be given to you in a similar
              manner based on your own life. So let us have an end
              to this legalistic pharisee like behavior and begin to
              try to imitate Christ rather then those who stoned
              him. Prehaps this is not the best time to reunite with
              MP, but this is for our bishops to decide and not you
              and other people with their various personal opinions
              which do not reflect the Church.

              In Christ N. R. Kearney
              (Who supports Metropolitan Lavr and the true Synod of
              ROCOR).
              --- vkozyreff <vladimir.kozyreff@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear Father Seraphim,
              >
              >
              >
              > You write: "Sergianism is a sin, and a terrible sin,
              > but not a
              > heresy, and not unlike other occurrences in Orthodox
              > history".
              >
              >
              >
              > Let me respectfully state that I disagree with you.
              > First, let us
              > distinguish two things that are called "Sergianism":
              >
              >
              >
              > 1. The conduct that consists in following Bishop
              > Sergius's teaching
              > in deeds.
              >
              > 2. A teaching stating that bishop Sergius's tactics
              > did save the
              > Church.
              >
              >
              >
              > Both of them are heretical.
              >
              >
              >
              > Concerning (1), Patriarch Tikhon has anathematised
              > those who
              > collaborated with the atheist government. To
              > anathematise a conduct
              > is to declare it officially contrary to the teaching
              > of the Church,
              > that is contrary to the teaching of Christ. A
              > conduct that is
              > contrary to the teaching of Christ is heretical.
              >
              >
              >
              > (2) is more important for us. Nobody, for the moment
              > does collaborate
              > with the communist government any longer. We are
              > told that this is a
              > thing of the past. Let it be. Nevertheless, the
              > teaching that
              > Sergianism has saved the Church in Russia is
              > presently actively
              > promoted by the MP. In our Church, this teaching is
              > tolerated as not
              > heretical by those who are tired to stand for the
              > Truth or are
              > seduced by the idea of re-union at the expense of
              > the Truth. Claiming
              > that Sergianism has saved the Church is heretical
              > because:
              >
              >
              >
              > Patriarch Tikhon declared the collaboration of the
              > Church with the
              > Bolsheviks anathema. Metropolitan Sergius did just
              > what the Patriarch
              > had anathematised. An anathematised conduct cannot
              > save the Church.
              > Believing it or teaching that it can is heretical.
              > You write yourself that Sergianism is a great sin.
              > Claiming the
              > opposite is heretical. Claiming that a great sin has
              > saved the Church
              > is heretical too.
              > In general, claiming that an action has saved the
              > Church means either
              > that it pleased God, or that it did save the Church
              > in spite of it
              > not pleasing God. Claiming that calling the martyrs
              > counterrevolutionaries and excluding them from the
              > Church pleased God
              > is heretical. Claiming that bishop Sergius saved the
              > Church by an
              > action that displeased God is heretical too.
              >
              >
              > It is important to know that heresies are not only
              > proposals that
              > explicit contradict explicit proposals of the Creed.
              > There are other
              > heresies than those that have been declared heresies
              > by the seven
              > Councils. We were warned by Metropolitan Philaret.
              > The heresies that
              > we face now are more subtle and dangerous than the
              > past ones. Now, we
              > can see it.
              >
              >
              >
              > Becoming tolerant to heresies is one of the most
              > terrible dangers for
              > our Church. Everything in this world invites us to
              > unite with
              > schismatics and heretics and to acknowledge that we
              > all "pray the
              > same God". Patriarch Alexis just declared to the
              > Pope of Rome that
              > the orthodox and the "catholic" Church are both
              > based on tradition.
              > As soon as the "catholic proselytism" ends, talks
              > about unity will
              > start, he said. Look at those orthodox who forget
              > the heretical
              > nature of the schisms that have separated most of
              > mankind from
              > orthodoxy, and that are ready to join them in the
              > heresy.
              >
              >
              >
              > In Christ, and begging your prayers
              >
              >
              >
              > VK
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "Priest Seraphim
              > Holland" <seraphim@o...>
              > wrote:
              > > The Society for Orthodox Truth said:
              > > > Fr. Seraphim was speaking of a different
              > situation, he was
              > speaking of,
              > > > if the ROCOR has nothing to say, then all the
              > systems people in
              > the
              > > > world can't help.
              > >
              > > I am not the webmaster, and have not been since
              > the Sobor. I am
              > told that
              > > there is an ukaz, but have not seen one. I was
              > only told on the
              > telephone.
              > >
              > > I stand by my criticism of our church.
              > >
              > > I scratched and clawed for years, getting
              > information, stories, even
              > > BEGGING for letters to be written (such as after
              > 911). We are so
              > entrenched
              > > and fearful of the implications of discussion with
              > the MP that we
              > are
              > > paralyzed. We hurl jargon, and invent heresies to
              > oppose
              > (Sergianism is a
              > > sin, and a terrible sin, but not a heresy, and not
              > unlike other
              > occurrences
              > > in Orthodox history).
              > >
              > > I am quite despondent about our church's lack of
              > vision, activity,
              > > information dissemination (see the very top of
              > this letter),
              > courage and
              > > compassion (if we care about Russia, we should be
              > the "big brother"
              > and be
              > > brotherly and conciliatory (and no, this does not
              > mean immediate
              > union, or
              > > giving up our principles), instead, we are more
              > like the "elder
              > son").
              > >
              > > I was involved in investigating, upon the orders
              > of my hierarchy
              > (after
              > > MANY calls and emails from me and many others)
              > serious perversion
              > in our
              > > church. My report was not acted on. Another one
              > preceding mine was
              > not
              > > acted on. When the guy cut and ran (no duh, we did
              > not bother to
              > address
              > > the situation early, and later, it was clear to me
              > that
              === message truncated ===


              __________________________________________________
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            • antiquariu@aol.com
              In a message dated 2/4/2002 9:02:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Hmmm.... I guess Patriarch Alexis is a bit brighter than your average emigre, because he is
              Message 6 of 22 , Feb 4, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                In a message dated 2/4/2002 9:02:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                niconar20@... writes:


                > Patriarch Alexis just declared to the Pope of Rome that the orthodox and the
                > "catholic" Church are both based on tradition. As soon as the "catholic
                > proselytism" ends, talks about unity will start, he said. Look at those
                > orthodox who forget the heretical nature of the schisms that have separated
                > most of
                > mankind from orthodoxy, and that are ready to join them in the
                > heresy.


                Hmmm.... I guess Patriarch Alexis is a bit brighter than your average
                emigre, because he is quite correct. Both churches are based on tradition,
                and unity is a desirable goal. I strngly suspect that the reciprocal
                excommunications had more to do with the sacking of Constantinople than with
                dogmatic violations. As "holier than though" as we now pretend to be, fact
                is that the Orthodox Church lived with the filioque for several hundred years
                without much of a problem with it, and that to this day a large number of
                Catholics and Orthodox still remain completely clueless as to what this
                really means. That other big stumbling block, papal infallibility, is also
                not that big. Even Metropolitan Vitaly affected this from time to time. And
                very few Orthodox understand that the doctrine/dogma can only be invoked ex
                cathedra and has only been invoked a couple of times. Why not ultimate
                unity? That's what Christ wanted.

                Vladimir Hindrichs
                who prays for the Unity of Christ's Church






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Hristofor
                Unfortunately, some Orthodox faithful are beginning to resemble tabloid newspapers with their eye-catching headlines: ROCA TO UNITE WITH THE MP! , IMMINENT
                Message 7 of 22 , Feb 5, 2002
                • 0 Attachment
                  Unfortunately, some Orthodox faithful are beginning to resemble tabloid
                  newspapers with their eye-catching headlines: "ROCA TO UNITE WITH THE MP!",
                  "IMMINENT UNITY WITH MOSCOW". Whatever will be next??? Well, now we know.
                  "MP TO UNITE WITH ROME!" I really wish that people would stop taking the
                  barest of a thread of fact/truth/information and spinning it into the worst
                  possible scenario. After leaving the Mitropolia almost 20 years ago and
                  joining the ROCA, already at that time there were people/parishes leaving,
                  due to the "ROCA GOING ECCUMENICAL!" I can't say that the ROCA is anymore
                  ecumenical now then under Vladyka Philaret.

                  How could Moscow could "unite" with Rome? Any talks about serious unity
                  would take an act of ALL of the local Orthodox Churches meeting AND
                  agreeing to this. The chances of that happening are almost nil -- the local
                  Churches can't even agree on such germane issues as the Calendar, how to
                  treat the uncanonical situation of multiple bishops on the same territory
                  [which means just about any non-historically Orthodox country, such as the
                  US, Australia, UK, Franc etc.], Mitropolia autocephaly, wether the
                  Ukriane and Estonia are MP or EP territory. Albeit, there are bi-lateral
                  commissions between Rome and the MP, the EP etc but what exactly have they
                  accomplished in concrete terms?

                  What is exactly the problem if Patriarch Alexis saying that "the Catholic
                  Church is traditional?" Considering the female ministers, married bishops,
                  grape juice sacrament that exists in the Protestant churches, well the
                  Catholic church does seem "traditional."

                  On a related note of unity, I recall reading in the OCA newspaper some time
                  ago about a movement in the 19th Century for the Episcopal Church in the US
                  to be accepted into the Russian Orthodox Church. Does anyone know anything
                  about this?

                  Hristofor



                  >niconar20@... writes:
                  > > Patriarch Alexis just declared to the Pope of Rome that the orthodox
                  > and the
                  > > "catholic" Church are both based on tradition. As soon as the "catholic
                  > > proselytism" ends, talks about unity will start, he said. Look at those
                  > > orthodox who forget the heretical nature of the schisms that have
                  > separated
                  > > most of mankind from orthodoxy, and that are ready to join them in the
                  > > heresy.
                  >
                  >Hmmm.... I guess Patriarch Alexis is a bit brighter than your average
                  >emigre, because he is quite correct. Both churches are based on tradition,
                  >and unity is a desirable goal. I strngly suspect that the reciprocal
                  >excommunications had more to do with the sacking of Constantinople than with
                  >dogmatic violations. As "holier than though" as we now pretend to be, fact
                  >is that the Orthodox Church lived with the filioque for several hundred years
                  >without much of a problem with it, and that to this day a large number of
                  >Catholics and Orthodox still remain completely clueless as to what this
                  >really means. That other big stumbling block, papal infallibility, is also
                  >not that big. Even Metropolitan Vitaly affected this from time to time. And
                  >very few Orthodox understand that the doctrine/dogma can only be invoked ex
                  >cathedra and has only been invoked a couple of times. Why not ultimate
                  >unity? That's what Christ wanted.
                  >
                  >Vladimir Hindrichs
                  >who prays for the Unity of Christ's Church
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                  >
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                • mwoerl
                  ... You would think so . . . however, the same is true of the Calendar change and involvement with ecumenism, and we see that these preconditions were
                  Message 8 of 22 , Feb 5, 2002
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                    --- In orthodox-synod@y..., Hristofor <hristofor@m...> wrote:

                    >
                    > How could Moscow could "unite" with Rome? Any talks about serious unity
                    > would take an act of ALL of the local Orthodox Churches meeting AND
                    > agreeing to this.

                    You would think so . . . however, the same is true of the Calendar
                    change and involvement with ecumenism, and we see that these
                    'preconditions' were totally ignored concerning those issues . . .
                    Michael Woerl
                  • catherine elaine sullivan
                    Sad, but true. Perhaps there is more interest out there on the part of Moms - as I am not one, my viewpoint was more that of educator, and the club was meant
                    Message 9 of 22 , Feb 6, 2002
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                      Sad, but true. Perhaps there is more interest out there on the part of "Moms"-
                      as I am not one, my viewpoint was more that of educator, and the club was meant
                      for administrators and teachers in church school programs,and of course,
                      parents interested in education. Do you think there is really some interest
                      out there- perhaps just my timing was off? I left it up for several months, and
                      then closed it up for lack of interest. What do you think- should I try again?

                      =====
                      Catherine

                      __________________________________________________
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                    • thestapletonfamily
                      ... of Moms - ... club was meant ... course, ... interest ... months, and ... I try again? ... Dear in Christ Catherine, My wife and I would be interested in
                      Message 10 of 22 , Feb 6, 2002
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                        --- In orthodox-synod@y..., catherine elaine sullivan <flicka68@y...>
                        wrote:
                        > Sad, but true. Perhaps there is more interest out there on the part
                        of "Moms"-
                        > as I am not one, my viewpoint was more that of educator, and the
                        club was meant
                        > for administrators and teachers in church school programs,and of
                        course,
                        > parents interested in education. Do you think there is really some
                        interest
                        > out there- perhaps just my timing was off? I left it up for several
                        months, and
                        > then closed it up for lack of interest. What do you think- should
                        I try again?
                        >
                        > =====
                        > Catherine
                        >
                        > __________________________________________________
                        > Do You Yahoo!?
                        > Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
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                        Dear in Christ Catherine,
                        My wife and I would be interested in gaining more information about
                        Christian Education. We home school our three boys and are always
                        looking for and needing more information on teaching our kids. If
                        there isnt an interest in seting up a christian education site maybe
                        we could still correspond some.
                        A struggling soul
                        Ambrose Stapleton
                      • catherine elaine sullivan
                        Vladimir- I don t suppose anyone DOESN T want unity. However, what many of us DON T want is unity at any price. During WW II, many Germans wanted so badly to
                        Message 11 of 22 , Feb 6, 2002
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                          Vladimir- I don't suppose anyone DOESN'T want unity. However, what many of us
                          DON'T want is unity at any price. During WW II, many Germans wanted so badly
                          to remain loyal Germans- in fact one of the Nazi themes was the UNITY of all
                          Germans everywhere. Because of this, many of them made great moral
                          compromises, which they have had to answer to God for. We just don't want that
                          to happen to us in the name of unity- that we have to compromise our faith for
                          it. I really do not feel, for example,that Roman Catholics will ever give up
                          their Pope just in order to unite with us, not do I think he would settle for
                          simply being the "bishop of Rome, first among equals." I am afraid it would
                          ultimately be the Orthodox who would make the compromises. If we are the Truth
                          and we wish to unite with others,then it can only be by means of their
                          accepting the Truth of Orthodoxy. Any less,and we are nolonger the Orthodox
                          Church- we are something else.

                          =====
                          Catherine

                          __________________________________________________
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                          Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
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                        • catherine elaine sullivan
                          That would be fine- I ll give it one more shot, and if not, we can certainly do that. It set one up under Orthodox and Education and we ll see what happens!
                          Message 12 of 22 , Feb 6, 2002
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                            That would be fine- I'll give it one more shot, and if not, we can certainly do
                            that. It set one up under Orthodox and Education and we'll see what happens!

                            flicka68@...

                            =====
                            Catherine

                            __________________________________________________
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                            Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
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                          • vkozyreff
                            The actions that patriarch Tikhon took or did not take after he pronounced his anathema do not change in any way the fact of the anathema, its appropriateness
                            Message 13 of 22 , Feb 9, 2002
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                              The actions that patriarch Tikhon took or did not take after he
                              pronounced his anathema do not change in any way the fact of the
                              anathema, its appropriateness and the fact that Sergianism is both
                              anathema and heretical.

                              We are judging a proposal here, not a person. In doing so, we are
                              defending Christ's Truth, which is the duty of any Christian. In
                              condemning Sergianism, as the new martyrs did, we do not even condemn
                              Met Sergius himself. He probably did commit a grave sin, but who am
                              I, sinner to judge him? As I said before, maybe God has forgiven him
                              already. It nevertheless remains true that Sergianism is sin and
                              heretical. A heresy is a heresy by nature, not by authorship.

                              We should never forget the duty that Christ has given us to exert our
                              judgement ("You will recognise them by their fruits"). The principle
                              that we will be judged as we have judged has nothing to do with this.
                              If I should be heretical, I hope my orthodox brothers will let me
                              know. I would be grateful if they helped me out of my error.

                              This being said, the opinion that I have about reunion with the MP is
                              mine precisely because I think it is that of the Church.

                              I do not agree with the proposal: "this is for our bishops to decide
                              and not you and other people with their various personal opinions
                              which do not reflect the Church" for the following reasons:

                              1. I never said that I would decide anything about this matter.
                              2. I may however have an opinion about this and I may discuss it
                              with a bishop and with you. The bishop might be interested in hearing
                              what I have to say, either to take it into account or to correct me.
                              Remember, bishops are not infallible and laymen are members of the
                              Church. It would be abnormal that bishops would take decisions that
                              would be contrary to the opinion of their flock who, by definition,
                              express the opinion of the Church too.
                              3. My opinions about the Church always reflect those of the
                              Church. I adopt as opinion for myself what I perceive as being the
                              opinion of the Church. My research consists in finding out what the
                              opinion of the Church is, to adopt it for myself. Discussions come
                              about when the opinion of the Church is unclear. This happens. The
                              voice of the laymen may be a signal for the Church that She should be
                              clearer.
                              What happens also, as you know, is that different bishops express
                              different opinions about a given subject. Synods have erred in the
                              past, as we all know. In conclusion, bishops and laymen should be in
                              close unity and absence thereof is always a cause for concern, not a
                              fact to be ignored.

                              In Christ,

                              VK


                              In God,

                              VK
                              --- In orthodox-synod@y..., Robert Kearney <niconar20@y...> wrote:
                              > As I recall, did not Patriarch Tikhon also collaborate
                              > with the Soviet authorities after he was released from
                              > prison in 1923? Did not he recognize the treaty of
                              > Brest Lovak and called upon the people to support the
                              > Soviet government? Would not this actions have also
                              > placed this holy man under his own anathema? Prehaps
                              > this are things that the people who constantly shout
                              > about this particular event should take time out to
                              > think about what they are saying instead of just
                              > shouting words out in judgment?
                              > Remeber, Christ said, "Treat others the way that you
                              > would want to be treated." THe same judgment that you
                              > give to others shall be given to you in a similar
                              > manner based on your own life. So let us have an end
                              > to this legalistic pharisee like behavior and begin to
                              > try to imitate Christ rather then those who stoned
                              > him. Prehaps this is not the best time to reunite with
                              > MP, but this is for our bishops to decide and not you
                              > and other people with their various personal opinions
                              > which do not reflect the Church.
                              >
                              > In Christ N. R. Kearney
                              > (Who supports Metropolitan Lavr and the true Synod of
                              > ROCOR).
                              > --- vkozyreff <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Dear Father Seraphim,
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > You write: "Sergianism is a sin, and a terrible sin,
                              > > but not a
                              > > heresy, and not unlike other occurrences in Orthodox
                              > > history".
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Let me respectfully state that I disagree with you.
                              > > First, let us
                              > > distinguish two things that are called "Sergianism":
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > 1. The conduct that consists in following Bishop
                              > > Sergius's teaching
                              > > in deeds.
                              > >
                              > > 2. A teaching stating that bishop Sergius's tactics
                              > > did save the
                              > > Church.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Both of them are heretical.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Concerning (1), Patriarch Tikhon has anathematised
                              > > those who
                              > > collaborated with the atheist government. To
                              > > anathematise a conduct
                              > > is to declare it officially contrary to the teaching
                              > > of the Church,
                              > > that is contrary to the teaching of Christ. A
                              > > conduct that is
                              > > contrary to the teaching of Christ is heretical.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > (2) is more important for us. Nobody, for the moment
                              > > does collaborate
                              > > with the communist government any longer. We are
                              > > told that this is a
                              > > thing of the past. Let it be. Nevertheless, the
                              > > teaching that
                              > > Sergianism has saved the Church in Russia is
                              > > presently actively
                              > > promoted by the MP. In our Church, this teaching is
                              > > tolerated as not
                              > > heretical by those who are tired to stand for the
                              > > Truth or are
                              > > seduced by the idea of re-union at the expense of
                              > > the Truth. Claiming
                              > > that Sergianism has saved the Church is heretical
                              > > because:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Patriarch Tikhon declared the collaboration of the
                              > > Church with the
                              > > Bolsheviks anathema. Metropolitan Sergius did just
                              > > what the Patriarch
                              > > had anathematised. An anathematised conduct cannot
                              > > save the Church.
                              > > Believing it or teaching that it can is heretical.
                              > > You write yourself that Sergianism is a great sin.
                              > > Claiming the
                              > > opposite is heretical. Claiming that a great sin has
                              > > saved the Church
                              > > is heretical too.
                              > > In general, claiming that an action has saved the
                              > > Church means either
                              > > that it pleased God, or that it did save the Church
                              > > in spite of it
                              > > not pleasing God. Claiming that calling the martyrs
                              > > counterrevolutionaries and excluding them from the
                              > > Church pleased God
                              > > is heretical. Claiming that bishop Sergius saved the
                              > > Church by an
                              > > action that displeased God is heretical too.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > It is important to know that heresies are not only
                              > > proposals that
                              > > explicit contradict explicit proposals of the Creed.
                              > > There are other
                              > > heresies than those that have been declared heresies
                              > > by the seven
                              > > Councils. We were warned by Metropolitan Philaret.
                              > > The heresies that
                              > > we face now are more subtle and dangerous than the
                              > > past ones. Now, we
                              > > can see it.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Becoming tolerant to heresies is one of the most
                              > > terrible dangers for
                              > > our Church. Everything in this world invites us to
                              > > unite with
                              > > schismatics and heretics and to acknowledge that we
                              > > all "pray the
                              > > same God". Patriarch Alexis just declared to the
                              > > Pope of Rome that
                              > > the orthodox and the "catholic" Church are both
                              > > based on tradition.
                              > > As soon as the "catholic proselytism" ends, talks
                              > > about unity will
                              > > start, he said. Look at those orthodox who forget
                              > > the heretical
                              > > nature of the schisms that have separated most of
                              > > mankind from
                              > > orthodoxy, and that are ready to join them in the
                              > > heresy.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > In Christ, and begging your prayers
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > VK
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "Priest Seraphim
                              > > Holland" <seraphim@o...>
                              > > wrote:
                              > > > The Society for Orthodox Truth said:
                              > > > > Fr. Seraphim was speaking of a different
                              > > situation, he was
                              > > speaking of,
                              > > > > if the ROCOR has nothing to say, then all the
                              > > systems people in
                              > > the
                              > > > > world can't help.
                              > > >
                              > > > I am not the webmaster, and have not been since
                              > > the Sobor. I am
                              > > told that
                              > > > there is an ukaz, but have not seen one. I was
                              > > only told on the
                              > > telephone.
                              > > >
                              > > > I stand by my criticism of our church.
                              > > >
                              > > > I scratched and clawed for years, getting
                              > > information, stories, even
                              > > > BEGGING for letters to be written (such as after
                              > > 911). We are so
                              > > entrenched
                              > > > and fearful of the implications of discussion with
                              > > the MP that we
                              > > are
                              > > > paralyzed. We hurl jargon, and invent heresies to
                              > > oppose
                              > > (Sergianism is a
                              > > > sin, and a terrible sin, but not a heresy, and not
                              > > unlike other
                              > > occurrences
                              > > > in Orthodox history).
                              > > >
                              > > > I am quite despondent about our church's lack of
                              > > vision, activity,
                              > > > information dissemination (see the very top of
                              > > this letter),
                              > > courage and
                              > > > compassion (if we care about Russia, we should be
                              > > the "big brother"
                              > > and be
                              > > > brotherly and conciliatory (and no, this does not
                              > > mean immediate
                              > > union, or
                              > > > giving up our principles), instead, we are more
                              > > like the "elder
                              > > son").
                              > > >
                              > > > I was involved in investigating, upon the orders
                              > > of my hierarchy
                              > > (after
                              > > > MANY calls and emails from me and many others)
                              > > serious perversion
                              > > in our
                              > > > church. My report was not acted on. Another one
                              > > preceding mine was
                              > > not
                              > > > acted on. When the guy cut and ran (no duh, we did
                              > > not bother to
                              > > address
                              > > > the situation early, and later, it was clear to me
                              > > that
                              > === message truncated ===
                              >
                              >
                              > __________________________________________________
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                            • vkozyreff
                              1. I do not say that the Latino Catholics cannot name other Churches that are even less traditional than theirs. I just dispute the idea that the Orthodox
                              Message 14 of 22 , Feb 9, 2002
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                                1. I do not say that the Latino Catholics cannot name
                                other "Churches" that are even less traditional than theirs. I just
                                dispute the idea that the Orthodox Church is linked to the Latino
                                Catholics by the fact that they are both traditional. Their
                                relationship with Tradition is precisely what separates them.
                                Protestant grapefruit juice is irrelevant here. As you know, the
                                Latino-Catholics have innovated and are constantly doing so. One of
                                their last innovations is that the sin (and thus the Redemption)
                                should not be at the centre of the faith any longer. Innovation is
                                opposed to tradition. If I innovate, accusing others of innovating
                                even more does not change the fact that I innovate myself.
                                2. The concern of Orthodox believers regarding a possible union
                                with the Latino Catholics is not totally unfounded, as history has
                                shown. Twice, the patriarch of Constantinople has declared union with
                                Rome. The faithful have rersisted against their bishops and have
                                saved orthodoxy. Uniates do exist. The anathema against the Latino
                                Catholics has been abrogated recently by the patriarch of
                                Constantinople. Among our clergy and our believers, many continue to
                                speak about the "reunion of the Church", as though the heretics were
                                still part of the Church. Contrarily to what you seem to imply, I
                                think that the danger is real. You say yourself that you consider the
                                filioque matter as unimportant.
                                3. As you know, many Orthodox have turned themselves to the
                                Latino-Catholics already. Ecumenism is more aggressive than ever and
                                sympathy for it is growing within our ranks. Many orthodox are afraid
                                that tey might remain a minority compared to the Latino Catholics and
                                Orthodox supporters of ecumenism. How can you blame the faithful for
                                being vigilant and concerned?

                                In Christ,

                                VK
                                --- In orthodox-synod@y..., Hristofor <hristofor@m...> wrote:
                                > Unfortunately, some Orthodox faithful are beginning to resemble
                                tabloid
                                > newspapers with their eye-catching headlines: "ROCA TO UNITE WITH
                                THE MP!",
                                > "IMMINENT UNITY WITH MOSCOW". Whatever will be next??? Well, now we
                                know.
                                > "MP TO UNITE WITH ROME!" I really wish that people would stop
                                taking the
                                > barest of a thread of fact/truth/information and spinning it into
                                the worst
                                > possible scenario. After leaving the Mitropolia almost 20 years ago
                                and
                                > joining the ROCA, already at that time there were people/parishes
                                leaving,
                                > due to the "ROCA GOING ECCUMENICAL!" I can't say that the ROCA is
                                anymore
                                > ecumenical now then under Vladyka Philaret.
                                >
                                > How could Moscow could "unite" with Rome? Any talks about serious
                                unity
                                > would take an act of ALL of the local Orthodox Churches meeting AND
                                > agreeing to this. The chances of that happening are almost nil --
                                the local
                                > Churches can't even agree on such germane issues as the Calendar,
                                how to
                                > treat the uncanonical situation of multiple bishops on the same
                                territory
                                > [which means just about any non-historically Orthodox country, such
                                as the
                                > US, Australia, UK, Franc etc.], Mitropolia autocephaly, wether
                                the
                                > Ukriane and Estonia are MP or EP territory. Albeit, there are bi-
                                lateral
                                > commissions between Rome and the MP, the EP etc but what exactly
                                have they
                                > accomplished in concrete terms?
                                >
                                > What is exactly the problem if Patriarch Alexis saying that "the
                                Catholic
                                > Church is traditional?" Considering the female ministers, married
                                bishops,
                                > grape juice sacrament that exists in the Protestant churches, well
                                the
                                > Catholic church does seem "traditional."
                                >
                                > On a related note of unity, I recall reading in the OCA newspaper
                                some time
                                > ago about a movement in the 19th Century for the Episcopal Church
                                in the US
                                > to be accepted into the Russian Orthodox Church. Does anyone know
                                anything
                                > about this?
                                >
                                > Hristofor
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > >niconar20@y... writes:
                                > > > Patriarch Alexis just declared to the Pope of Rome that the
                                orthodox
                                > > and the
                                > > > "catholic" Church are both based on tradition. As soon as
                                the "catholic
                                > > > proselytism" ends, talks about unity will start, he said. Look
                                at those
                                > > > orthodox who forget the heretical nature of the schisms that
                                have
                                > > separated
                                > > > most of mankind from orthodoxy, and that are ready to join them
                                in the
                                > > > heresy.
                                > >
                                > >Hmmm.... I guess Patriarch Alexis is a bit brighter than your
                                average
                                > >emigre, because he is quite correct. Both churches are based on
                                tradition,
                                > >and unity is a desirable goal. I strngly suspect that the
                                reciprocal
                                > >excommunications had more to do with the sacking of Constantinople
                                than with
                                > >dogmatic violations. As "holier than though" as we now pretend to
                                be, fact
                                > >is that the Orthodox Church lived with the filioque for several
                                hundred years
                                > >without much of a problem with it, and that to this day a large
                                number of
                                > >Catholics and Orthodox still remain completely clueless as to what
                                this
                                > >really means. That other big stumbling block, papal
                                infallibility, is also
                                > >not that big. Even Metropolitan Vitaly affected this from time to
                                time. And
                                > >very few Orthodox understand that the doctrine/dogma can only be
                                invoked ex
                                > >cathedra and has only been invoked a couple of times. Why not
                                ultimate
                                > >unity? That's what Christ wanted.
                                > >
                                > >Vladimir Hindrichs
                                > >who prays for the Unity of Christ's Church
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              • ajj66046
                                Dear Catherine, My wife currently homeschools our five year old daughter and has been starving for some curriculum and project ideas which are consonant with
                                Message 15 of 22 , Feb 11, 2002
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Dear Catherine,

                                  My wife currently homeschools our five year old daughter and has been
                                  starving for some curriculum and project ideas which are consonant
                                  with our desire to raise up our children as Orthodox Christians.
                                  Please let us know how we might benefit from your experience (either
                                  by personal correspondence or in a discussion group setting). We
                                  intend to follow a 'Classical Education' model at present adapted
                                  from 'The Well-Trained Mind' curriculum, however, it has a pretty
                                  protestant/western-european bias which we will adjust when we get
                                  into teaching our daughter history.

                                  Thank you for your efforts,
                                  Anthony Jacobs

                                  --- In orthodox-synod@y..., catherine elaine sullivan <flicka68@y...>
                                  wrote:
                                  > That would be fine- I'll give it one more shot, and if not, we can
                                  certainly do
                                  > that. It set one up under Orthodox and Education and we'll see
                                  what happens!
                                  >
                                  > flicka68@y...
                                  >
                                  > =====
                                  > Catherine
                                • Jean-Claude
                                  This is my first post on this site. I have been home schooling my son since he was five. He will be entering the seminary in about one or two years. I don t
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Feb 11, 2002
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                                    This is my first post on this site. I have been home schooling my son since he was five. He will be entering the seminary in about one or two years. I don't know what state you live in but I am in Ohio and here I must comply with certain subjects buy my choice of texts is pretty good. As far as my Orthodox training or classes. I use a standard text concerning the Orthodox faith. He is currently studying the Stichera (please excuse spelling) and the order of services.

                                    Jean-Claude
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: ajj66046
                                    To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 1:29 PM
                                    Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Christian Education website


                                    Dear Catherine,

                                    My wife currently homeschools our five year old daughter and has been
                                    starving for some curriculum and project ideas which are consonant
                                    with our desire to raise up our children as Orthodox Christians.
                                    Please let us know how we might benefit from your experience (either
                                    by personal correspondence or in a discussion group setting). We
                                    intend to follow a 'Classical Education' model at present adapted
                                    from 'The Well-Trained Mind' curriculum, however, it has a pretty
                                    protestant/western-european bias which we will adjust when we get
                                    into teaching our daughter history.

                                    Thank you for your efforts,
                                    Anthony Jacobs

                                    --- In orthodox-synod@y..., catherine elaine sullivan <flicka68@y...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > That would be fine- I'll give it one more shot, and if not, we can
                                    certainly do
                                    > that. It set one up under Orthodox and Education and we'll see
                                    what happens!
                                    >
                                    > flicka68@y...
                                    >
                                    > =====
                                    > Catherine



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                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • catherine elaine sullivan
                                    It is a little confusing to me- isn t it clear to Orthodox that Latino Catholics and others are under the jurisdiction of the Pope and we are not, and never
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Feb 12, 2002
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                                      It is a little confusing to me- isn't it clear to Orthodox that Latino
                                      Catholics and others are under the jurisdiction of the Pope and we are not, and
                                      never have been? Why would they wish to accept this? It is the same reason I
                                      do not believe there will ever be full eccumenism- the Pope is not about to
                                      give up his office!

                                      =====
                                      Catherine

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                                    • catherine elaine sullivan
                                      If you go into Yahoo groups (www.yahoogroups.com), I have started a group called Orthodox Education, which should serve the purpose. So far, I am the only
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Feb 12, 2002
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                                        If you go into Yahoo groups (www.yahoogroups.com), I have started a group
                                        called Orthodox Education, which should serve the purpose. So far, I am the
                                        only member! However, we can spread the work to others, and will have more, I
                                        hope. I did se on my piled-up e-mails that someone else inquired also. After
                                        you go into Yahoogroups (you have to "join"), let me know further.

                                        =====
                                        Catherine

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                                      • Hristofor
                                        Did a quick search of Orthodox Education and did not find it. Is it the one called OrthodoxClassicalHS? hristofor.
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Feb 13, 2002
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                                          Did a quick search of Orthodox Education and did not find it. Is it the one
                                          called OrthodoxClassicalHS?

                                          hristofor.

                                          At 12:26 PM 2/12/2002, you wrote:
                                          >If you go into Yahoo groups (www.yahoogroups.com), I have started a group
                                          >called Orthodox Education, which should serve the purpose. So far, I am the
                                          >only member! However, we can spread the work to others, and will have more, I
                                          >hope. I did se on my piled-up e-mails that someone else inquired also. After
                                          >you go into Yahoogroups (you have to "join"), let me know further.
                                          >
                                          >=====
                                          >Catherine
                                          >
                                          >__________________________________________________
                                          >Do You Yahoo!?
                                          >Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
                                          >http://greetings.yahoo.com
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        • ajj66046
                                          Hristofor, I had the same problem finding it, but you can access the page by typing (or following this link if it works):
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Feb 14, 2002
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                                            Hristofor,

                                            I had the same problem finding it, but you can access the page by
                                            typing (or following this link if it works):

                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodoxeducation/

                                            At present Catherine and I are the only members, but I hope there
                                            will be more.

                                            Anthony

                                            --- In orthodox-synod@y..., Hristofor <hristofor@m...> wrote:
                                            > Did a quick search of Orthodox Education and did not find it. Is it
                                            the one
                                            > called OrthodoxClassicalHS?
                                            >
                                            > hristofor.
                                            >
                                            > At 12:26 PM 2/12/2002, you wrote:
                                            > >If you go into Yahoo groups (www.yahoogroups.com), I have started
                                            a group
                                            > >called Orthodox Education, which should serve the purpose. So
                                            far, I am the
                                            > >only member! However, we can spread the work to others, and will
                                            have more, I
                                            > >hope. I did se on my piled-up e-mails that someone else inquired
                                            also. After
                                            > >you go into Yahoogroups (you have to "join"), let me know further.
                                            > >
                                            > >=====
                                            > >Catherine
                                            > >
                                            > >__________________________________________________
                                            > >Do You Yahoo!?
                                            > >Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
                                            > >http://greetings.yahoo.com
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          • catherine elaine sullivan
                                            No, it s in Yahoo groups (not the old clubs) under Orthodox Christian Education, but pops up under my groups as Orthoeduc or something like that. =====
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Feb 15, 2002
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                                              No, it's in Yahoo groups (not the old clubs) under Orthodox Christian
                                              Education, but pops up under "my groups" as Orthoeduc or something like that.

                                              =====
                                              Catherine

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