Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Why born of a virgin?

Expand Messages
  • Priest Seraphim Holland
    How would you explain why Jesus Christ was incarnate of a virgin? Of course, it fulfilled the prophesies, but I want to explain beyond that.
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 14, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      How would you explain why Jesus Christ was incarnate of a virgin? Of
      course, it fulfilled the prophesies, but I want to explain beyond that.
    • lieuwen@research.bell-labs.com
      If Christ was not born of a Virgin, then those of little faith could doubt that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary. Also, in the Old
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 14, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        If Christ was not born of a Virgin, then those of little faith could doubt
        that He was "conceived by the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary."

        Also, in the Old Testament, the High Priest could only marry a virgin
        (Lev 21:13) and (I believe although could not find it in a quick look)
        priests could only marry virgins or widows of a priest.

        Clearly, fornicators are not worthy. Also, divorcees have been involved
        in a great sin (whether they are guilty or not, they are marred.)
        Thus, only a widow would even be a possibility by even human reasoning not
        warped by modern reasoning. However, the Orthodox discourage remarriage
        even of widows, so this would be inconsistant with the Orthodox ethos.

        Under the mercy,

        Daniel
      • Kiril Bart
        In Russian Orthodox tradition and I think in any other too, future priest have to be married to a virgin. They have to be married by first marrige on both
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 14, 2001
        • 0 Attachment
          In Russian Orthodox tradition and I think in any other
          too, future priest have to be married to a virgin.
          They have to be married by first marrige on both
          sides.
          Another Canon states that Priest's kids couldn't be
          married to non Christian.
          Subdeacon Kirill
          --- lieuwen@...-labs.com wrote:
          >
          > If Christ was not born of a Virgin, then those of
          > little faith could doubt
          > that He was "conceived by the Holy Spirit and the
          > Virgin Mary."
          >
          > Also, in the Old Testament, the High Priest could
          > only marry a virgin
          > (Lev 21:13) and (I believe although could not find
          > it in a quick look)
          > priests could only marry virgins or widows of a
          > priest.
          >
          > Clearly, fornicators are not worthy. Also,
          > divorcees have been involved
          > in a great sin (whether they are guilty or not, they
          > are marred.)
          > Thus, only a widow would even be a possibility by
          > even human reasoning not
          > warped by modern reasoning. However, the Orthodox
          > discourage remarriage
          > even of widows, so this would be inconsistant with
          > the Orthodox ethos.
          >
          > Under the mercy,
          >
          > Daniel
          >
          >
          >


          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
          your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
          or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
        • Sandra Thompson
          ... We have priests who were married prior to being Orthodox, divorced, became Orthodox and subsequently became a priest.
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 14, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            >
            >Another Canon states that Priest's kids couldn't be
            >married to non Christian.
            > I thought no Orthodox person could marry a non-
            > Christian. If a priest's kid were too marry a non Christian, would he be
            > defrocked?


            We have priests who were married prior to being Orthodox, divorced, became
            Orthodox and subsequently became a priest.
          • polychrony
            ... Evidently, ROCOR has divorcee bishops! Polychronios
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 15, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In orthodox-synod@y..., Sandra Thompson <sandra@g...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              > >Another Canon states that Priest's kids couldn't be
              > >married to non Christian.
              > > I thought no Orthodox person could marry a non-
              > > Christian. If a priest's kid were too marry a non Christian,
              > > would he be defrocked?
              >
              >
              > We have priests who were married prior to being Orthodox, divorced,
              > became Orthodox and subsequently became a priest.

              Evidently, ROCOR has divorcee bishops!

              Polychronios
            • boulia_1
              Re: the question of Orthodox marrying non-Orthodox: If a faithful Orthodox Christian wants to marry a non-Orthodox person, even Christian of other
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 15, 2001
              • 0 Attachment
                Re: the question of Orthodox marrying non-Orthodox: If a faithful
                Orthodox Christian wants to marry a non-Orthodox person, even
                Christian of other denomination, even "Catholic," s/he must petition
                her/his Bishop for permission! Permission is not ever granted for
                marriage to unbaptized, I believe. I am also curious if this Canon is
                enforced: if a priest's child falls away and marries outside the
                church, is he punished? Does that go for 'spiritul children' too?
                (NOT being serious there...!)

                Also, I personally know of ordained men all the way up to the
                episcopate who (1) were not virgins when they married OR (2) did not
                marry virgins OR (3)were divorced... In all cases, as with ANY
                ORDINATION, it is the responsibility of the Bishop to deem who is
                worthy. remember, our Faith includes the Mysteries of Confession and
                Repentance and the forgiveness of sins!!


                This is all quite a way off from Father Seraphim's original question,
                though. Interesting how these 'topics' take a life of their own
                sometimes.

                --- In orthodox-synod@y..., Sandra Thompson <sandra@g...> wrote:
                >
                > >
                > >Another Canon states that Priest's kids couldn't be
                > >married to non Christian.
                > > I thought no Orthodox person could marry a non-
                > > Christian. If a priest's kid were too marry a non Christian,
                would he be
                > > defrocked?
                >
                >
                > We have priests who were married prior to being Orthodox, divorced,
                became
                > Orthodox and subsequently became a priest.
              • mwoerl
                ... One that comes to mind was Bishop Nikolai (Ono) of Japan-he was granted a canonical divorce; was subsequently tonsured to monasticism (as was his ex-wife)
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 19, 2001
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "polychrony" <UPB_MONIODIS@O...> wrote:

                  > Evidently, ROCOR has divorcee bishops!

                  One that comes to mind was Bishop Nikolai (Ono) of Japan-he was granted
                  a canonical divorce; was subsequently tonsured to monasticism (as was
                  his ex-wife) and consecrated a bishop. I am under he impression this
                  was the practice in Russia in times past. Another example is Archbishop
                  James (Toombs) of the Church Abroad's American Mission, althouh his
                  wife did not enter a convent, as she spoke no Russian, and at the time
                  (early 1950's) all Church Abroad convents in US were strictly Russian
                  speaking. I know of no current 'divorcee bishops' in the Church Abroad.
                  Don't they do it that way way in Constantinople?
                  Michael Woerl
                • Karen Grisel
                  Dear Misha, there was also an extensive article on Patriarch Alexei II of Russia recently posted somewhere. He was married. His matushka s father had a
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 20, 2001
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Dear Misha,

                    there was also an extensive article on Patriarch Alexei II of Russia
                    recently posted somewhere. He was married. His matushka's father had a
                    prominent parish in Latvia to which he eventually became rector.

                    This is not unusual to find.

                    Fr. Basil Grisel

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "mwoerl" <mwoerl@...>
                    To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 11:10 PM
                    Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Why_born_of_a_virgin?/"divorcee bishops"??


                    > --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "polychrony" <UPB_MONIODIS@O...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Evidently, ROCOR has divorcee bishops!
                    >
                    > One that comes to mind was Bishop Nikolai (Ono) of Japan-he was granted
                    > a canonical divorce; was subsequently tonsured to monasticism (as was
                    > his ex-wife) and consecrated a bishop. I am under he impression this
                    > was the practice in Russia in times past. Another example is Archbishop
                    > James (Toombs) of the Church Abroad's American Mission, althouh his
                    > wife did not enter a convent, as she spoke no Russian, and at the time
                    > (early 1950's) all Church Abroad convents in US were strictly Russian
                    > speaking. I know of no current 'divorcee bishops' in the Church Abroad.
                    > Don't they do it that way way in Constantinople?
                    > Michael Woerl
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                  • Kiril Bart
                    Bp. Alexander Mileant is a divorsee, I think Bp. Michael is a widower, but I might be wrong. S.K. ... __________________________________________________ Do You
                    Message 9 of 15 , Dec 20, 2001
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Bp. Alexander Mileant is a divorsee, I think Bp.
                      Michael is a widower, but I might be wrong.
                      S.K.

                      --- mwoerl <mwoerl@...> wrote:
                      > --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "polychrony"
                      > <UPB_MONIODIS@O...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > Evidently, ROCOR has divorcee bishops!
                      >
                      > One that comes to mind was Bishop Nikolai (Ono) of
                      > Japan-he was granted
                      > a canonical divorce; was subsequently tonsured to
                      > monasticism (as was
                      > his ex-wife) and consecrated a bishop. I am under he
                      > impression this
                      > was the practice in Russia in times past. Another
                      > example is Archbishop
                      > James (Toombs) of the Church Abroad's American
                      > Mission, althouh his
                      > wife did not enter a convent, as she spoke no
                      > Russian, and at the time
                      > (early 1950's) all Church Abroad convents in US were
                      > strictly Russian
                      > speaking. I know of no current 'divorcee bishops' in
                      > the Church Abroad.
                      > Don't they do it that way way in Constantinople?
                      > Michael Woerl
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      __________________________________________________
                      Do You Yahoo!?
                      Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
                      your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
                      or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
                    • catherine elaine sullivan
                      Probably irrelevant, but isn t the word divorcee referring to WOMEN? Catherine ... Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctionsfor all of
                      Message 10 of 15 , Dec 20, 2001
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Probably irrelevant, but isn't the word "divorcee" referring to WOMEN?

                        Catherine


                        ---------------------------------
                        Do You Yahoo!?
                        Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctionsfor all of your holiday gifts!

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • yasnogorsky
                        ... A query concerning what is under discussion: The practice is divorce for the sake of Christ and his Church, with both parties becoming celibate in order
                        Message 11 of 15 , Dec 20, 2001
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In orthodox-synod@y..., Kiril Bart <kirbart@y...> wrote:
                          > Bp. Alexander Mileant is a divorsee, I think Bp.
                          > Michael is a widower, but I might be wrong.
                          > S.K.
                          >
                          > --- mwoerl <mwoerl@y...> wrote:
                          > > --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "polychrony"
                          > > <UPB_MONIODIS@O...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > Evidently, ROCOR has divorcee bishops!
                          > >
                          > > One that comes to mind was Bishop Nikolai (Ono) of
                          > > Japan-he was granted
                          > > a canonical divorce; was subsequently tonsured to
                          > > monasticism (as was
                          > > his ex-wife) and consecrated a bishop. I am under he
                          > > impression this
                          > > was the practice in Russia in times past. Another
                          > > example is Archbishop
                          > > James (Toombs) of the Church Abroad's American
                          > > Mission, althouh his
                          > > wife did not enter a convent, as she spoke no
                          > > Russian, and at the time
                          > > (early 1950's) all Church Abroad convents in US were
                          > > strictly Russian
                          > > speaking. I know of no current 'divorcee bishops' in
                          > > the Church Abroad.
                          > > Don't they do it that way way in Constantinople?
                          > > Michael Woerl


                          A query concerning what is under discussion: The "practice" is
                          divorce for the sake of Christ and his Church, with both parties
                          becoming celibate in order to serve in capacities to which they are
                          called, is it not? Is this what we are talking about in the cases of
                          Bishops Alexander and Michael? And does it apply to Patriarch
                          Aleksiy? I am not clear whether we are discussing the giving up of
                          marriage for the sake of the Church or the elevation to the
                          episcopate of people whose marriages have failed. These are very
                          different issues.
                          G. Y.

                          > __________________________________________________
                          > Do You Yahoo!?
                          > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
                          > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
                          > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
                        • Valentina Grigorieva
                          1/ At the time O. Simeon Donskov became a monk, and some days after - archimandrit, and some weeks after - bishop Michael, he was for sure a divorced man. 2/
                          Message 12 of 15 , Dec 21, 2001
                          • 0 Attachment
                            1/ At the time O. Simeon Donskov became a monk, and
                            some days after - archimandrit, and some weeks after -
                            bishop Michael, he was for sure a divorced man.
                            2/ archimandrit Alexander (now bishop of South
                            America) is also a divorcee.
                            Valentina from France.

                            --- Kiril Bart <kirbart@...> a écrit : > Bp.
                            Alexander Mileant is a divorsee, I think Bp.
                            > Michael is a widower, but I might be wrong.
                            > S.K.
                            >
                            > --- mwoerl <mwoerl@...> wrote:
                            > > --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "polychrony"
                            > > <UPB_MONIODIS@O...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > Evidently, ROCOR has divorcee bishops!
                            > >
                            > > One that comes to mind was Bishop Nikolai (Ono) of
                            > > Japan-he was granted
                            > > a canonical divorce; was subsequently tonsured to
                            > > monasticism (as was
                            > > his ex-wife) and consecrated a bishop. I am under
                            > he
                            > > impression this
                            > > was the practice in Russia in times past. Another
                            > > example is Archbishop
                            > > James (Toombs) of the Church Abroad's American
                            > > Mission, althouh his
                            > > wife did not enter a convent, as she spoke no
                            > > Russian, and at the time
                            > > (early 1950's) all Church Abroad convents in US
                            > were
                            > > strictly Russian
                            > > speaking. I know of no current 'divorcee bishops'
                            > in
                            > > the Church Abroad.
                            > > Don't they do it that way way in Constantinople?
                            > > Michael Woerl
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            > __________________________________________________
                            > Do You Yahoo!?
                            > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for
                            > all of
                            > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at
                            > http://shopping.yahoo.com
                            > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
                            >
                            >

                            ___________________________________________________________
                            Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @... gratuite et en français !
                            Yahoo! Courrier : http://courrier.yahoo.fr
                          • Joachim Wertz
                            Dear Michael, Forgive the long delay in this reply, I was pondering whether to post it for a while. Could you give us some biographical information on Bishop
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jan 2, 2002
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Dear Michael,
                              Forgive the long delay in this reply, I was pondering whether to post it for
                              a while. Could you give us some biographical information on Bishop James
                              (Toombs)? I've read something about him somewhere in the past, and I think I
                              have seen his picture somewhere, but I don't recall that much. Also, could
                              you please explain what exactly was "the Church Abroad's American mission"
                              at that time?
                              Thanks,
                              Joachim Wertz


                              ----------
                              From: "mwoerl" <mwoerl@...>
                              To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Why_born_of_a_virgin?/"divorcee bishops"??
                              Date: Thu, Dec 20, 2001, 2:10 AM


                              --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "polychrony" <UPB_MONIODIS@O...> wrote:

                              > Evidently, ROCOR has divorcee bishops!

                              One that comes to mind was Bishop Nikolai (Ono) of Japan-he was granted
                              a canonical divorce; was subsequently tonsured to monasticism (as was
                              his ex-wife) and consecrated a bishop. I am under he impression this
                              was the practice in Russia in times past. Another example is Archbishop
                              James (Toombs) of the Church Abroad's American Mission, althouh his
                              wife did not enter a convent, as she spoke no Russian, and at the time
                              (early 1950's) all Church Abroad convents in US were strictly Russian
                              speaking. I know of no current 'divorcee bishops' in the Church Abroad.
                              Don't they do it that way way in Constantinople?
                              Michael Woerl



                              Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT

                              Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod



                              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                              <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • mwoerl
                              ... Joachim, Arcbishop James (Roy Toombs) was born on a farm in Kansas, and left home at about age 16. At some later point, he became interested in Roman
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jan 3, 2002
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "Joachim Wertz" <wertz@p...> wrote:
                                > Dear Michael,
                                > Forgive the long delay in this reply, I was pondering whether to post it for
                                > a while. Could you give us some biographical information on Bishop James
                                > (Toombs)?

                                Joachim,
                                Arcbishop James (Roy Toombs) was born on a farm in Kansas, and left
                                home at about age 16. At some later point, he became interested in
                                Roman Catholicism, and his instructor, a Jesuit, told him that his
                                temperament would be more suited to Orthodoxy than to Roman Cathoicism
                                or Anglicanism. He became involved with some 'American Orthodox' group,
                                headed by a Stanislaus deWitow; this group was also involved in
                                Rosicrucianism. I believe in the 1940's, the future Archbishop James
                                disassociated himself from this group, and began his own
                                'jurisdiction.' He realized that his 'group' was totally uncanonical,
                                and sought to correct this. He approached a Bishop Christopher (an
                                Albanian or from Jeruslaem Patriarchate?? I can check this for you . .
                                .), I think-and this Bishop Christopher told him to contact the Russian
                                Church in America, as the Russian Church was the first to have
                                missions, dioceses, etc., in America. The future Archbishop James first
                                contacted the North American Metropolia, who would have absolutely
                                nothing to do with him. He then contacted the Church Abroad, and
                                Archbishop Vitaly (Maximenko, +1960) became his mentor. He was received
                                into the Church Abroad with his parishes (one in N.Y.C., one in
                                Chicago) and on the Feast of the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul in 1950
                                or 1951 was consecrated to the episcopate at the Kursk Icon Hermitage
                                in Mahopac. N.Y., by Metropolitan Anastassy and other hierarchs of the
                                Church Abroad. The 'American Mission' of the Church Abroad basically
                                consisted of Archbishop James' parishes. He was allowed a great deal of
                                autonomy, and contact with the rest of the Church Abroad, while
                                cordial, was not frequent. Around 1954, I think, the Adair brothers,
                                clergy of the American mission, sued Archbishop James for his church in
                                N.Y.C., and won; he served in a chapel in his apartment after that,
                                until his death in 1970. Archbishop James can be seen in the video of
                                the 50th anniversary of the seminary at Jordanville-he is the only
                                clean-shaven hierarch in the video. After this, things get a little
                                murky. I think the official line is that he was 'retired' by the Synod-
                                but I have no date for this retirement. Other sources who knew
                                Archbishop James claim he was given a canonical release from the Church
                                Abroad. After he left, his relations with Metropolitan Anastassy and
                                the hierarchs who had supported him were always cordial. Some people
                                claim he was a Mason, and remained married, which is why he was
                                'retired,' but, again, this cannot be verified officially. Others who
                                knew Archbishop James claim that some hierarchs of the Church Abroad
                                were not exactly pleased to have an American as a hierarch of the
                                Church Abroad, and did not support Archbishop James or his Mission.
                                After leaving the Church Abroad, he again headed his own independent
                                group. This group, the Orthodox American Church, carries on to this day
                                in N.Y.C. under Bishop John Schneider. I was also told by people who
                                knew Archbishop James, but did not follow him after he left the Church
                                Abroad, that he was sincere, and a good man.
                                I hope this is of some help-I am working from memory, and don't have
                                any information with me, so some of the dates may be a little off! If
                                you need any more information, let me know, and I'll see what I have. I
                                know I have information about his consecration in an issue of
                                Tserkovnaya Zhizn.
                                Also interesting is the fact that one of the first Slavonic and
                                English Hierarchical Liturgies in the Church Abroad was celebrated by
                                Metroplitan Anastassy and Archbishop James in Chicago in 1951!
                                With Love in Christ,
                                Michael Woerl
                              • Joachim Wertz
                                Thank you, Michael, for the information you provided. Good enough for the moment! In Christ, Joachim ... From: mwoerl To:
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jan 8, 2002
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Thank you, Michael, for the information you provided. Good enough for the
                                  moment!
                                  In Christ,
                                  Joachim

                                  ----------
                                  From: "mwoerl" <mwoerl@...>
                                  To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re:/"divorcee bishops"-Arcbishop James (Toombs)
                                  Date: Thu, Jan 3, 2002, 8:01 PM


                                  --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "Joachim Wertz" <wertz@p...> wrote:
                                  > Dear Michael,
                                  > Forgive the long delay in this reply, I was pondering whether to post it for
                                  > a while. Could you give us some biographical information on Bishop James
                                  > (Toombs)?

                                  Joachim,
                                  Arcbishop James (Roy Toombs) was born on a farm in Kansas, and left
                                  home at about age 16. At some later point, he became interested in
                                  Roman Catholicism, and his instructor, a Jesuit, told him that his
                                  temperament would be more suited to Orthodoxy than to Roman Cathoicism
                                  or Anglicanism. He became involved with some 'American Orthodox' group,
                                  headed by a Stanislaus deWitow; this group was also involved in
                                  Rosicrucianism. I believe in the 1940's, the future Archbishop James
                                  disassociated himself from this group, and began his own
                                  'jurisdiction.' He realized that his 'group' was totally uncanonical,
                                  and sought to correct this. He approached a Bishop Christopher (an
                                  Albanian or from Jeruslaem Patriarchate?? I can check this for you . .
                                  .), I think-and this Bishop Christopher told him to contact the Russian
                                  Church in America, as the Russian Church was the first to have
                                  missions, dioceses, etc., in America. The future Archbishop James first
                                  contacted the North American Metropolia, who would have absolutely
                                  nothing to do with him. He then contacted the Church Abroad, and
                                  Archbishop Vitaly (Maximenko, +1960) became his mentor. He was received
                                  into the Church Abroad with his parishes (one in N.Y.C., one in
                                  Chicago) and on the Feast of the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul in 1950
                                  or 1951 was consecrated to the episcopate at the Kursk Icon Hermitage
                                  in Mahopac. N.Y., by Metropolitan Anastassy and other hierarchs of the
                                  Church Abroad. The 'American Mission' of the Church Abroad basically
                                  consisted of Archbishop James' parishes. He was allowed a great deal of
                                  autonomy, and contact with the rest of the Church Abroad, while
                                  cordial, was not frequent. Around 1954, I think, the Adair brothers,
                                  clergy of the American mission, sued Archbishop James for his church in
                                  N.Y.C., and won; he served in a chapel in his apartment after that,
                                  until his death in 1970. Archbishop James can be seen in the video of
                                  the 50th anniversary of the seminary at Jordanville-he is the only
                                  clean-shaven hierarch in the video. After this, things get a little
                                  murky. I think the official line is that he was 'retired' by the Synod-
                                  but I have no date for this retirement. Other sources who knew
                                  Archbishop James claim he was given a canonical release from the Church
                                  Abroad. After he left, his relations with Metropolitan Anastassy and
                                  the hierarchs who had supported him were always cordial. Some people
                                  claim he was a Mason, and remained married, which is why he was
                                  'retired,' but, again, this cannot be verified officially. Others who
                                  knew Archbishop James claim that some hierarchs of the Church Abroad
                                  were not exactly pleased to have an American as a hierarch of the
                                  Church Abroad, and did not support Archbishop James or his Mission.
                                  After leaving the Church Abroad, he again headed his own independent
                                  group. This group, the Orthodox American Church, carries on to this day
                                  in N.Y.C. under Bishop John Schneider. I was also told by people who
                                  knew Archbishop James, but did not follow him after he left the Church
                                  Abroad, that he was sincere, and a good man.
                                  I hope this is of some help-I am working from memory, and don't have
                                  any information with me, so some of the dates may be a little off! If
                                  you need any more information, let me know, and I'll see what I have. I
                                  know I have information about his consecration in an issue of
                                  Tserkovnaya Zhizn.
                                  Also interesting is the fact that one of the first Slavonic and
                                  English Hierarchical Liturgies in the Church Abroad was celebrated by
                                  Metroplitan Anastassy and Archbishop James in Chicago in 1951!
                                  With Love in Christ,
                                  Michael Woerl



                                  Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT

                                  Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod



                                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                                  <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.