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Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: ANATHEMA year 1919

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  • Valentina Grigorieva
    ... orthodox-synod@y..., ... Nikolai, even if there are many priests who could answer you on that list but don t do it, i would say my humble opinion that,
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 1, 2001
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      --- niconar20@... a écrit : > --- In
      > How could Christians in the
      > USSR continue to practice there faith and yet not be
      > loyal to the
      > Soviets?
      > Why should the Church have to go into the catacombs
      > when there is
      > another alternative which is merly to declare
      > loyalty to the state?
      Nikolai, even if there are many priests who could
      answer you on that list but don't do it, i would say
      my humble opinion that, following your reasoning, your
      sentence is equal to declare vain the martyrdom of the
      New Russian martyrs.

      > For instance, the Polish Church professes loyalty to
      > the Polish
      > government from her citizens, yet we know that the
      > leaders of that
      > nation declare the Orthodox Church there to be an
      > "alien element" AND
      > declaration of Met.
      > Sergi was a true travesty but was there any other
      > way that the Church
      > could have survived without it?
      As our blessed Metropolitans and bishops previously
      taught us, and as has written Bishop Amvrossy of
      Western Europe in his letter dated oct. 2000 addressed
      to his flock of Geneva Cathedral (my translation from
      the French) : "the hierarchy of the Church of Russia
      is the one of the Lie. Lie of a declaration of
      so-called loyalty who was actually a pact with the
      evil forces. When times smoothed, she did not try to
      search the path of spiritual regeneration.
      You are asked to join the Mother-Church, but you ARE
      in the Mother Church, you never left Her. The "mother"
      who tries to attract you is comparable to "the one who
      do not enter by the door of the sheeps enclosure, but
      who climbs from elsewhere, that one is a thief and a
      crook" (Jn 10:1).

      > If the church were merly to let
      > herself be destroyeed by the Soviets in the belief
      > that God would
      > save her, would not then have been an act of
      > presumtion on their
      > part?
      But the Russian Church know as the Moscow Patriarchate
      has been destroyed by the soviets.
      The Orthodox faith has survived in Russia thanks to
      the acts and deeds of the New Martyrs and all the
      clerics and diddidents in prison or camps, and the
      Catacumb Church.
      I would encourage all the members of the list to read
      the history of Russian Church and History of lives of
      New Russian Martyrs. These books will be more
      efficient than all others words exchanged on that
      list, and avoid many questions.

      > Please excuss me for answering these questions but I
      > have always desired to ask them. I wish to know the
      answers so I turn to this list to try and get them. Im
      not MP so dont think that I am just
      > because I desire to know why about something.
      > In Christ Nikolai
      I don't think anything of you Nikoai, neither good or
      bad, MP or not, you are a human being, orthodox, with
      his fears and doubts like all we have, and i respect
      By the prayers of the Holy New Martyrs, God have mercy
      on us!
      Valentina by the Med Sea.

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    • Kiril Bart
      You might considered that a fantasy if you wish, but there is a record of some bezpassportnik clergy coming here in States,I think in 70 s, which really
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 1, 2001
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        You might considered that a fantasy if you wish, but
        there is a record of some bezpassportnik clergy coming
        here in States,I think in 70's, which really puzzled
        me, but it's a fact. Regarding conditions of life in
        USSR I'm not only can imagine, I'm personally knows
        what it was and control of KGB, although it was
        impressive, wasn't as total as you want to present it.
        Those people (bezpassportniki)(passportless) didn't
        get into Institutes didn't get a good jobs, didn't try
        to establish themselves, but rather choose life full
        of troubles and persecution with Christ, to quiet life
        of normal soviet conformist with lenin.
        Regards, Subdeacon Kirill
        --- "V. J. Boitchenko" <venceslav@...> wrote:
        > Dear Subdeacon Kirill:
        > What a fantasy! Can you at least imagine what life
        > in the USSR was like? There may have been people
        > without passports living in the woods in the 30's
        > and 40's. Any time later than that you can hardly
        > move outside of your home if you do not have a
        > passport. We are speaking of the vast majority of
        > the Russian people.
        > I was not trying to ridicule the anathema. All I am
        > saying is that is not for you or me to decide where
        > it applies.
        > In XC,
        > v
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Kiril Bart
        > To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 5:57 PM
        > Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] ANATHEMA year 1919
        > There is up to our days a group of Catacombniks,
        > who
        > didn't accept soviet passports at all
        > (bezpasportniki), they also refused to serve in
        > red
        > army etc. About application of that Anathema to
        > those
        > who did have a soviet passport, I don't know, but
        > those who did participate in communist party or
        > komsomol they are definitely bearing
        > responsibility
        > for their actions, in my opinion.
        > Subdeacon Kirill
        > P.S. I do understand that you are trying to
        > ridicule
        > that Anathema, but it wouldn't make it
        > disappeared, or
        > loose any validity.
        > --- "V. J. Boitchenko" <venceslav@...>
        > wrote:
        > > I wonder if it applies to everyone who had or
        > has a
        > > Soviet Passoprt since (I
        > > guess) they also collaborated by way of
        > recognotion
        > > of the Soviet authority?
        > >
        > >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
        > removed]

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