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RE: [orthodox-synod] Simple Solution:

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  • Ledkovsky, Nina
    Kato, When you are ordained as a bishop it will be OK for you to make decisions about what the bishops need to do (decisions that are only the SOBOR can make
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 1, 2001
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      Kato,
      When you are ordained as a bishop it will be OK for you to make decisions
      about what the bishops "need" to do (decisions that are only the SOBOR can
      make as called for in the Canons).

      You are naturally entitled to your opinion but please try to understand that
      you do not know everything and cannot understand everything that goes on in
      the Synod of Bishops.

      I have said it again and again. TRUST OUR BISHOPS and more importantly -
      PRAY for them and for us all. THAT is the best thing you can do. When you
      are ordained then you can give your opinions about what must be done.

      -nina
      PS. Do you understand the fact that if not for the Serbian Church - we would
      not even exist. The Serbian Church SAVED us.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Kato Hetch [mailto:kato_ny@...]
      Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 2:55 AM
      To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [orthodox-synod] Simple Solution:

      I have emailed a few people from the ROCOR authorities.

      First of all, I want to state, I'm a full pledged member of our True
      Church, the ROCA-ROCOR Church. And if I have to accept the new
      ordination of Metroploitan Laurus (lavra), I have. I understand that
      he's been a nice person, and I always enjoyed to speak to him in the
      past visits, both in Jordanville, Nyack, and even in Moscow Russia.

      While trying to calm down, and understand that there are two sides of
      every story, with some new stems, I have noticed that there really is
      a simple solution.

      Today, the bishops of our faithful church, need to come out with a
      statement, stating:

      "WE the ROCA Bishops, and the clergy have no interest in having any
      dialogue, not now, not tomorrow, or in the very near future with the
      MP!"

      Then, the next step would be to correct all the clergy and Bishops
      who have stated that we need to unite with the MP, or that we are in
      close ties or in close dialogue, and that it is a matter of time that
      our churches will unite. Anyone who has mentioned such terms or
      facts, should be either warned or corrected, or evicted.

      We have heard about this fact, that:

      "we are not RUSHING into any dialogue with the MP today".... To which
      I respond, water can seem to be quite rushing in the beginning, but
      eventually it calms down, and either dries up or creates new routes.

      I like how one person put it... "I don't think we should become a
      pink church". I actually like the context...

      There is no way our church should have any dialogue whatso ever with
      the MP. Maybe with the serbs, or perhaps other jurisdictions, but not
      the MP. "Why?"

      I haven't seen any ROCA members from the bishops to the clergy who
      have been out in Russia for more than a given period of time. None of
      them have come out and witness what the MP really is.

      For those who did come out, it was a simple 1-7 day tour of Russia,
      and see how Cupola are shining once again, and priests are walking
      with their podrasniki on.

      If there is a need for a dialogue, then, the MP should have taken
      their approach to our Church in the first place, and for given
      examples:

      -Hebron and or Jerricho. One after another, there was no dialogue,
      only force of a soviet entity.

      The re-canonization of the new martyrs, is like a slap on our faces,
      the fact that the MP does not recognize us.

      And what do our bishops think, dialogue? or the clergy?

      Yes Fr Victor Potapov has been out to Russia several times, in
      defense of our Church.

      yes, Bishop then Laurus, has been to Russia 2-4 times a year, and has
      been involved in bldg a new podvoriye outside of Moscow.

      If in fact they have been having some dialogue with the MP, then, I
      really don't know if it was official or not, or their acts on their
      own.

      Oh, of course, (fr.) Peter Holodny has also been out to Moscow, and
      had a good job, not as a priest of course, though his actions as a
      representative from the ROCA church was quite limited.

      Dialogue, It's interesting how the MP has its ways to make it "that
      much" difficult for the ROCA church to have its presents in Russia.
      It has done everything it can to have our ROCA church close down in
      Moscow. Even make it hard on the landlords who gave us the
      opportunity to have a church inside their buildings.

      "NO TO DIALOGUE!" That's it, and the mess will be cleared up, and
      back to normal. There can't be any rush, whats so ever.

      How simple is it, to sit on a couch back in the states, and watch CNN
      reports how Russia is celebrating Easter and Christmas now, and think
      that, well the time has come to rejoin and re-joice together.

      Dialogue... If we had a chance to have any dialogue, and our church
      was really into the idea of having any unification, then why didn't
      we join the OCA or have any context with them?

      Why is it that all of a sudden, there is an urgency and an interest
      in the MP?

      "Just Say NO!"


      Konstantin




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    • Valentina Grigorieva
      ... a écrit : Kato, ... Dear Nina, these words seem a bit extreme and too much personal of an assertion : of course the Serbian Church helped us, gave
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 1, 2001
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        --- "Ledkovsky, Nina" <nina_ledkovsky@...>
        a écrit : > Kato,
        ........
        > -nina
        > PS. Do you understand the fact that if not for the
        > Serbian Church - we would
        > not even exist. The Serbian Church SAVED us.
        Dear Nina, these words seem a bit extreme and too much
        personal of an assertion : of course the Serbian
        Church helped us, gave asylum to thousands of families
        and clergy, supported our Church, but did not SAVE us.
        Our Lord saves only.
        If not for the Serbian Church, GOD only knows what
        would have happened to us. The rest is assumptions.
        In 1943, the USSR recognized the government of Tito,
        and at the end of WW II, the Serbian Church recognized
        the authority of the Russian Patriarch Serge (you can
        imagine under what pressure) but did not cut their
        links with our Church. That same Serbian Church who is
        participating to the ecumenist heresy via the
        Ecumenical Council of Churches, side by side with
        Moscow Patriarchate.
        Better to remain close to facts than to build
        assumptions fitting with the current stream.
        Valentina by the streams of Med. Sea.



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      • Ledkovsky, Nina
        Valentina, I meant that the Serbs saved us in the technical way rather than the eternal way.In the context I used it, the Serbians DID in fact save our
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 1, 2001
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          Valentina,
          I meant that the Serbs "saved" us in the technical way rather than the
          eternal way.In the context I used it, the Serbians DID in fact save our
          church by their generosity and help. Much of my family was there in Belgrade
          when it happened (because Serbia was the only country that would accept them
          as refugees from Russia at that time during the revolution).

          Also, don't forget that Metropolitan Vitaly issued an ukaz stating that we
          pray for our brethren in Serbia in all of our services during the bombing in
          1999.

          The instructions for the service and the text that was to be served at this
          time said the following:
          "At the augmented litany at the end of the moleben, after the petitions for
          the Episcopate, for Russia and for this Country, read the following:
          "Again we pray for the Orthodox Episcopate of the Church of Serbia, their
          clergy and flock, and for their salvation""
          S' Bogom,
          Nina


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Valentina Grigorieva [mailto:valioucha@...]
          Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 2:04 PM
          To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [orthodox-synod] Simple Solution:

          --- "Ledkovsky, Nina" <nina_ledkovsky@...>
          a écrit : > Kato,
          ........
          > -nina
          > PS. Do you understand the fact that if not for the
          > Serbian Church - we would
          > not even exist. The Serbian Church SAVED us.
          Dear Nina, these words seem a bit extreme and too much
          personal of an assertion : of course the Serbian
          Church helped us, gave asylum to thousands of families
          and clergy, supported our Church, but did not SAVE us.
          Our Lord saves only.
          If not for the Serbian Church, GOD only knows what
          would have happened to us. The rest is assumptions.
          In 1943, the USSR recognized the government of Tito,
          and at the end of WW II, the Serbian Church recognized
          the authority of the Russian Patriarch Serge (you can
          imagine under what pressure) but did not cut their
          links with our Church. That same Serbian Church who is
          participating to the ecumenist heresy via the
          Ecumenical Council of Churches, side by side with
          Moscow Patriarchate.
          Better to remain close to facts than to build
          assumptions fitting with the current stream.
          Valentina by the streams of Med. Sea.



          ___________________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @... gratuite et en français !
          Yahoo! Courrier : http://courrier.yahoo.fr


          Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod



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        • ninamezencev@yahoo.com
          ... decisions ... SOBOR can ... Dear Nina, Speaking of decisions, how did you make your decision to TRUST those particular Bishops when this first started and
          Message 4 of 5 , Nov 1, 2001
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            --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "Ledkovsky, Nina" <nina_ledkovsky@d...>
            wrote:
            > Kato,
            > When you are ordained as a bishop it will be OK for you to make
            decisions
            > about what the bishops "need" to do (decisions that are only the
            SOBOR can
            > make as called for in the Canons).

            Dear Nina,

            Speaking of decisions, how did you make your decision to TRUST
            those particular Bishops when this first started and not to trust
            Metropolitan Vitaly, Archbishop Lazar, Bishop Varnava, Bishop
            Anathangel and Bishop Benjamin?
            >
            > I have said it again and again. TRUST OUR BISHOPS and more
            importantly -

            I do - Metropolitan Vitaly, Archbishop Lazar, Bishop Varnava, Bishop
            Anathangel and Bishop Benjamin.


            > PS. Do you understand the fact that if not for the Serbian Church -
            we would
            > not even exist. The Serbian Church SAVED us.
            >
            Only the Lord can Save us. The Scriptures tell us that the True
            Church will always exist in the world and that the forces of evil
            shall never prevail over the Church of Christ. Nina
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