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  • Kato Hetch
    I have emailed a few people from the ROCOR authorities. First of all, I want to state, I m a full pledged member of our True Church, the ROCA-ROCOR Church. And
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 31, 2001
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      I have emailed a few people from the ROCOR authorities.

      First of all, I want to state, I'm a full pledged member of our True
      Church, the ROCA-ROCOR Church. And if I have to accept the new
      ordination of Metroploitan Laurus (lavra), I have. I understand that
      he's been a nice person, and I always enjoyed to speak to him in the
      past visits, both in Jordanville, Nyack, and even in Moscow Russia.

      While trying to calm down, and understand that there are two sides of
      every story, with some new stems, I have noticed that there really is
      a simple solution.

      Today, the bishops of our faithful church, need to come out with a
      statement, stating:

      "WE the ROCA Bishops, and the clergy have no interest in having any
      dialogue, not now, not tomorrow, or in the very near future with the
      MP!"

      Then, the next step would be to correct all the clergy and Bishops
      who have stated that we need to unite with the MP, or that we are in
      close ties or in close dialogue, and that it is a matter of time that
      our churches will unite. Anyone who has mentioned such terms or
      facts, should be either warned or corrected, or evicted.

      We have heard about this fact, that:

      "we are not RUSHING into any dialogue with the MP today".... To which
      I respond, water can seem to be quite rushing in the beginning, but
      eventually it calms down, and either dries up or creates new routes.

      I like how one person put it... "I don't think we should become a
      pink church". I actually like the context...

      There is no way our church should have any dialogue whatso ever with
      the MP. Maybe with the serbs, or perhaps other jurisdictions, but not
      the MP. "Why?"

      I haven't seen any ROCA members from the bishops to the clergy who
      have been out in Russia for more than a given period of time. None of
      them have come out and witness what the MP really is.

      For those who did come out, it was a simple 1-7 day tour of Russia,
      and see how Cupola are shining once again, and priests are walking
      with their podrasniki on.

      If there is a need for a dialogue, then, the MP should have taken
      their approach to our Church in the first place, and for given
      examples:

      -Hebron and or Jerricho. One after another, there was no dialogue,
      only force of a soviet entity.

      The re-canonization of the new martyrs, is like a slap on our faces,
      the fact that the MP does not recognize us.

      And what do our bishops think, dialogue? or the clergy?

      Yes Fr Victor Potapov has been out to Russia several times, in
      defense of our Church.

      yes, Bishop then Laurus, has been to Russia 2-4 times a year, and has
      been involved in bldg a new podvoriye outside of Moscow.

      If in fact they have been having some dialogue with the MP, then, I
      really don't know if it was official or not, or their acts on their
      own.

      Oh, of course, (fr.) Peter Holodny has also been out to Moscow, and
      had a good job, not as a priest of course, though his actions as a
      representative from the ROCA church was quite limited.

      Dialogue, It's interesting how the MP has its ways to make it "that
      much" difficult for the ROCA church to have its presents in Russia.
      It has done everything it can to have our ROCA church close down in
      Moscow. Even make it hard on the landlords who gave us the
      opportunity to have a church inside their buildings.

      "NO TO DIALOGUE!" That's it, and the mess will be cleared up, and
      back to normal. There can't be any rush, whats so ever.

      How simple is it, to sit on a couch back in the states, and watch CNN
      reports how Russia is celebrating Easter and Christmas now, and think
      that, well the time has come to rejoin and re-joice together.

      Dialogue... If we had a chance to have any dialogue, and our church
      was really into the idea of having any unification, then why didn't
      we join the OCA or have any context with them?

      Why is it that all of a sudden, there is an urgency and an interest
      in the MP?

      "Just Say NO!"


      Konstantin
    • Ledkovsky, Nina
      Kato, When you are ordained as a bishop it will be OK for you to make decisions about what the bishops need to do (decisions that are only the SOBOR can make
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 1, 2001
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        Kato,
        When you are ordained as a bishop it will be OK for you to make decisions
        about what the bishops "need" to do (decisions that are only the SOBOR can
        make as called for in the Canons).

        You are naturally entitled to your opinion but please try to understand that
        you do not know everything and cannot understand everything that goes on in
        the Synod of Bishops.

        I have said it again and again. TRUST OUR BISHOPS and more importantly -
        PRAY for them and for us all. THAT is the best thing you can do. When you
        are ordained then you can give your opinions about what must be done.

        -nina
        PS. Do you understand the fact that if not for the Serbian Church - we would
        not even exist. The Serbian Church SAVED us.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Kato Hetch [mailto:kato_ny@...]
        Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 2:55 AM
        To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [orthodox-synod] Simple Solution:

        I have emailed a few people from the ROCOR authorities.

        First of all, I want to state, I'm a full pledged member of our True
        Church, the ROCA-ROCOR Church. And if I have to accept the new
        ordination of Metroploitan Laurus (lavra), I have. I understand that
        he's been a nice person, and I always enjoyed to speak to him in the
        past visits, both in Jordanville, Nyack, and even in Moscow Russia.

        While trying to calm down, and understand that there are two sides of
        every story, with some new stems, I have noticed that there really is
        a simple solution.

        Today, the bishops of our faithful church, need to come out with a
        statement, stating:

        "WE the ROCA Bishops, and the clergy have no interest in having any
        dialogue, not now, not tomorrow, or in the very near future with the
        MP!"

        Then, the next step would be to correct all the clergy and Bishops
        who have stated that we need to unite with the MP, or that we are in
        close ties or in close dialogue, and that it is a matter of time that
        our churches will unite. Anyone who has mentioned such terms or
        facts, should be either warned or corrected, or evicted.

        We have heard about this fact, that:

        "we are not RUSHING into any dialogue with the MP today".... To which
        I respond, water can seem to be quite rushing in the beginning, but
        eventually it calms down, and either dries up or creates new routes.

        I like how one person put it... "I don't think we should become a
        pink church". I actually like the context...

        There is no way our church should have any dialogue whatso ever with
        the MP. Maybe with the serbs, or perhaps other jurisdictions, but not
        the MP. "Why?"

        I haven't seen any ROCA members from the bishops to the clergy who
        have been out in Russia for more than a given period of time. None of
        them have come out and witness what the MP really is.

        For those who did come out, it was a simple 1-7 day tour of Russia,
        and see how Cupola are shining once again, and priests are walking
        with their podrasniki on.

        If there is a need for a dialogue, then, the MP should have taken
        their approach to our Church in the first place, and for given
        examples:

        -Hebron and or Jerricho. One after another, there was no dialogue,
        only force of a soviet entity.

        The re-canonization of the new martyrs, is like a slap on our faces,
        the fact that the MP does not recognize us.

        And what do our bishops think, dialogue? or the clergy?

        Yes Fr Victor Potapov has been out to Russia several times, in
        defense of our Church.

        yes, Bishop then Laurus, has been to Russia 2-4 times a year, and has
        been involved in bldg a new podvoriye outside of Moscow.

        If in fact they have been having some dialogue with the MP, then, I
        really don't know if it was official or not, or their acts on their
        own.

        Oh, of course, (fr.) Peter Holodny has also been out to Moscow, and
        had a good job, not as a priest of course, though his actions as a
        representative from the ROCA church was quite limited.

        Dialogue, It's interesting how the MP has its ways to make it "that
        much" difficult for the ROCA church to have its presents in Russia.
        It has done everything it can to have our ROCA church close down in
        Moscow. Even make it hard on the landlords who gave us the
        opportunity to have a church inside their buildings.

        "NO TO DIALOGUE!" That's it, and the mess will be cleared up, and
        back to normal. There can't be any rush, whats so ever.

        How simple is it, to sit on a couch back in the states, and watch CNN
        reports how Russia is celebrating Easter and Christmas now, and think
        that, well the time has come to rejoin and re-joice together.

        Dialogue... If we had a chance to have any dialogue, and our church
        was really into the idea of having any unification, then why didn't
        we join the OCA or have any context with them?

        Why is it that all of a sudden, there is an urgency and an interest
        in the MP?

        "Just Say NO!"


        Konstantin




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      • Valentina Grigorieva
        ... a écrit : Kato, ... Dear Nina, these words seem a bit extreme and too much personal of an assertion : of course the Serbian Church helped us, gave
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 1, 2001
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          --- "Ledkovsky, Nina" <nina_ledkovsky@...>
          a écrit : > Kato,
          ........
          > -nina
          > PS. Do you understand the fact that if not for the
          > Serbian Church - we would
          > not even exist. The Serbian Church SAVED us.
          Dear Nina, these words seem a bit extreme and too much
          personal of an assertion : of course the Serbian
          Church helped us, gave asylum to thousands of families
          and clergy, supported our Church, but did not SAVE us.
          Our Lord saves only.
          If not for the Serbian Church, GOD only knows what
          would have happened to us. The rest is assumptions.
          In 1943, the USSR recognized the government of Tito,
          and at the end of WW II, the Serbian Church recognized
          the authority of the Russian Patriarch Serge (you can
          imagine under what pressure) but did not cut their
          links with our Church. That same Serbian Church who is
          participating to the ecumenist heresy via the
          Ecumenical Council of Churches, side by side with
          Moscow Patriarchate.
          Better to remain close to facts than to build
          assumptions fitting with the current stream.
          Valentina by the streams of Med. Sea.



          ___________________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @... gratuite et en français !
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        • Ledkovsky, Nina
          Valentina, I meant that the Serbs saved us in the technical way rather than the eternal way.In the context I used it, the Serbians DID in fact save our
          Message 4 of 5 , Nov 1, 2001
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            Valentina,
            I meant that the Serbs "saved" us in the technical way rather than the
            eternal way.In the context I used it, the Serbians DID in fact save our
            church by their generosity and help. Much of my family was there in Belgrade
            when it happened (because Serbia was the only country that would accept them
            as refugees from Russia at that time during the revolution).

            Also, don't forget that Metropolitan Vitaly issued an ukaz stating that we
            pray for our brethren in Serbia in all of our services during the bombing in
            1999.

            The instructions for the service and the text that was to be served at this
            time said the following:
            "At the augmented litany at the end of the moleben, after the petitions for
            the Episcopate, for Russia and for this Country, read the following:
            "Again we pray for the Orthodox Episcopate of the Church of Serbia, their
            clergy and flock, and for their salvation""
            S' Bogom,
            Nina


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Valentina Grigorieva [mailto:valioucha@...]
            Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 2:04 PM
            To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [orthodox-synod] Simple Solution:

            --- "Ledkovsky, Nina" <nina_ledkovsky@...>
            a écrit : > Kato,
            ........
            > -nina
            > PS. Do you understand the fact that if not for the
            > Serbian Church - we would
            > not even exist. The Serbian Church SAVED us.
            Dear Nina, these words seem a bit extreme and too much
            personal of an assertion : of course the Serbian
            Church helped us, gave asylum to thousands of families
            and clergy, supported our Church, but did not SAVE us.
            Our Lord saves only.
            If not for the Serbian Church, GOD only knows what
            would have happened to us. The rest is assumptions.
            In 1943, the USSR recognized the government of Tito,
            and at the end of WW II, the Serbian Church recognized
            the authority of the Russian Patriarch Serge (you can
            imagine under what pressure) but did not cut their
            links with our Church. That same Serbian Church who is
            participating to the ecumenist heresy via the
            Ecumenical Council of Churches, side by side with
            Moscow Patriarchate.
            Better to remain close to facts than to build
            assumptions fitting with the current stream.
            Valentina by the streams of Med. Sea.



            ___________________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @... gratuite et en français !
            Yahoo! Courrier : http://courrier.yahoo.fr


            Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod



            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • ninamezencev@yahoo.com
            ... decisions ... SOBOR can ... Dear Nina, Speaking of decisions, how did you make your decision to TRUST those particular Bishops when this first started and
            Message 5 of 5 , Nov 1, 2001
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              --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "Ledkovsky, Nina" <nina_ledkovsky@d...>
              wrote:
              > Kato,
              > When you are ordained as a bishop it will be OK for you to make
              decisions
              > about what the bishops "need" to do (decisions that are only the
              SOBOR can
              > make as called for in the Canons).

              Dear Nina,

              Speaking of decisions, how did you make your decision to TRUST
              those particular Bishops when this first started and not to trust
              Metropolitan Vitaly, Archbishop Lazar, Bishop Varnava, Bishop
              Anathangel and Bishop Benjamin?
              >
              > I have said it again and again. TRUST OUR BISHOPS and more
              importantly -

              I do - Metropolitan Vitaly, Archbishop Lazar, Bishop Varnava, Bishop
              Anathangel and Bishop Benjamin.


              > PS. Do you understand the fact that if not for the Serbian Church -
              we would
              > not even exist. The Serbian Church SAVED us.
              >
              Only the Lord can Save us. The Scriptures tell us that the True
              Church will always exist in the world and that the forces of evil
              shall never prevail over the Church of Christ. Nina
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