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Re: [orthodox-synod] All these fights

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  • Hieromonk Gregory
    ... Thakn you for your kind yet stern admonition. May each of us search our souls and repent of any and of all of our our evil intentions and actions. In
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 31, 2001
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      On Wed, 31 October 2001, fader Silas wrote:

      >
      > Dear all,
      >
      > Why all this hatred and accusations? I've never seen or heard of anything like this earlier in my life (I'm 55). Not even among this "abominable" heretics and apostates the Roman Catholics or anyone else for that matter. Yes, I have seen it among communists, but otherwise not. This makes me cry out of deepest grief, sorrow and spiritual pain. When I converted to Orthodoxy I expected to find some love, forgiveness and understanding, not only anathemas and hatred.
      >
      > Reading all these crossfire built on unforgiveness, bitterness and self-righteousness is really a bitter chalice, which taints the Holy Body of Christ. Hasn't anyone read the words:
      >
      > "Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison." (Matt. 5: 25)?
      >
      > and
      >
      > "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, `Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, `You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." (Matt. 5:22)
      >
      > and
      >
      > "Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins." (1 Peter 4:8)
      >
      > No one can deceive the Holy Spirit by saying "We despise our oponents because it's in the best interest of the canons and because we love the laws of the Church". It is like saying "We hate because we love". No person with common sense would ever believe in such a contradiction.
      >
      > Please, behave like Christians, not as vigilantes in a dirty war.
      >
      > dear Fr. Stephan,

      Thakn you for your kind yet stern admonition. May each of us search our souls and repent of any and of all of our our evil intentions and actions.

      In Christ,
      Hieromonk Gregory
      >
      > ---------------------------------------
      > Presbyter
      > Stephan Sundqvist
      > Bangatan 9E
      > SE-214 26 Malm�, Sweden
      > Tel. +46 40 837 14 (home)
      > Email: stesu@...
      > +46 46 16 94 20 (office)
      >
      >
      >
      > _________________________________________s_p_r_a_y_
      >
    • catherine elaine sullivan
      Fader Silas- Hurrah! SOmeone who understands! One can protect oneself from terrorism and punish those who commit such acts without this sort of hatred for
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 31, 2001
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        Fader Silas- Hurrah! SOmeone who understands! One can protect oneself from
        terrorism and punish those who commit such acts without this sort of hatred for
        (it seems) almost anyone Muslim. I understand this on one level, as the For.
        Sta. is a frightening place right now, with people sending anthrax through the
        mails, etc. But you are right- this is not Orthodox thinking, and does not
        make us more patriotic to behave like this!

        It is good to hear from a Swedish priest- I am in the Russian Orthodox Church,
        but all of my mother's family was from southern Sweden, and I used to work for
        Svenska Kyrkan in New York. Have not been over since 1987 though.

        =====
        Catherine

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      • ourlittlecity@aol.com
        In a message dated 10/31/2001 8:01:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... Occasionally the Kingdom of God is entered violently and through much suffering. John
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 31, 2001
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          In a message dated 10/31/2001 8:01:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,
          stesu@... writes:


          > Please, behave like Christians, not as vigilantes in a dirty war.
          >
          >

          Occasionally the Kingdom of God is entered violently and through much
          suffering.

          John Curtis


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • fader Silas
          Dear all, Why all this hatred and accusations? I ve never seen or heard of anything like this earlier in my life (I m 55). Not even among this abominable
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 31, 2001
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            Dear all,

            Why all this hatred and accusations? I've never seen or heard of anything like this earlier in my life (I'm 55). Not even among this "abominable" heretics and apostates the Roman Catholics or anyone else for that matter. Yes, I have seen it among communists, but otherwise not. This makes me cry out of deepest grief, sorrow and spiritual pain. When I converted to Orthodoxy I expected to find some love, forgiveness and understanding, not only anathemas and hatred.

            Reading all these crossfire built on unforgiveness, bitterness and self-righteousness is really a bitter chalice, which taints the Holy Body of Christ. Hasn't anyone read the words:

            "Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison." (Matt. 5: 25)?

            and

            "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, `Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, `You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." (Matt. 5:22)

            and

            "Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins." (1 Peter 4:8)

            No one can deceive the Holy Spirit by saying "We despise our oponents because it's in the best interest of the canons and because we love the laws of the Church". It is like saying "We hate because we love". No person with common sense would ever believe in such a contradiction.

            Please, behave like Christians, not as vigilantes in a dirty war.



            ---------------------------------------
            Presbyter
            Stephan Sundqvist
            Bangatan 9E
            SE-214 26 Malmö, Sweden
            Tel. +46 40 837 14 (home)
            Email: stesu@...
            +46 46 16 94 20 (office)



            _________________________________________s_p_r_a_y_
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          • Igumeniya Iulianiya
            May I remind you Fader (Father)? Silas- that- while vicious and untrue names are wrong and hurtful- still we must not let our emotions lead us astray from
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 31, 2001
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              May I remind you Fader (Father)? Silas-
              that- while vicious and untrue names are wrong and
              hurtful- still we must not let our emotions lead us
              astray from TRUTH- the Church of Jesus Christ placed
              the Anathema on those who deserved it- and it remains
              in force until the same Church is able to retract it-
              which is certainly not yet!
              Love and forgiveness yes- but not the kind of "love"
              that denies Truth! Gentle Jesus made a whip and drove
              from His Father's House those who did not respect it.
              Are we holier than He?
              ANATHEMA is not simply to punish-but basically to
              arouse realization of sin and sincere repentance. Thus
              ALL contact is forbidden. None can play with fire and
              remain unburned. If you DO love the reprobate, show
              him by your steadfast refusal to join him!
              Abbjuliana



              <stesu@...> wrote:
              > Dear all,
              >
              > Why all this hatred and accusations? I've never seen
              > or heard of anything like this earlier in my life
              > (I'm 55). Not even among this "abominable" heretics
              > and apostates the Roman Catholics or anyone else for
              > that matter. Yes, I have seen it among communists,
              > but otherwise not. This makes me cry out of deepest
              > grief, sorrow and spiritual pain. When I converted
              > to Orthodoxy I expected to find some love,
              > forgiveness and understanding, not only anathemas
              > and hatred.
              >
              > Reading all these crossfire built on unforgiveness,
              > bitterness and self-righteousness is really a bitter
              > chalice, which taints the Holy Body of Christ.
              > Hasn't anyone read the words:
              >
              > "Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is
              > taking you to court. Do it while you are still with
              > him on the way, or he may hand you over to the
              > judge, and the judge may hand you over to the
              > officer, and you may be thrown into prison." (Matt.
              > 5: 25)?
              >
              > and
              >
              > "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his
              > brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone
              > who says to his brother, `Raca,' is answerable to
              > the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, `You fool!' will
              > be in danger of the fire of hell." (Matt. 5:22)
              >
              > and
              >
              > "Above all, love each other deeply, because love
              > covers over a multitude of sins." (1 Peter 4:8)
              >
              > No one can deceive the Holy Spirit by saying "We
              > despise our oponents because it's in the best
              > interest of the canons and because we love the laws
              > of the Church". It is like saying "We hate because
              > we love". No person with common sense would ever
              > believe in such a contradiction.
              >
              > Please, behave like Christians, not as vigilantes in
              > a dirty war.
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------------
              > Presbyter
              > Stephan Sundqvist
              > Bangatan 9E
              > SE-214 26 Malm�, Sweden
              > Tel. +46 40 837 14 (home)
              > Email: stesu@...
              > +46 46 16 94 20 (office)
              >
              >
              >
              > _________________________________________s_p_r_a_y_
              > H�r b�rjar Internet!
              > Skaffa gratis e-mail och gratis Internet p�
              > http://www.spray.se
              >
              > Ny chatt p� Spray! Fartyget M/S Spray har anl�nt
              > till http://www.spray.se/ohoj
              >
              >
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            • Valentina Grigorieva
              ... Dear Father bless! Do not cry. Love, forgiveness and understanding are not OPPOSED to anathemas, but co-exist altogether in our Church. ... When St
              Message 6 of 6 , Nov 1, 2001
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                --- fader Silas <stesu@...> wrote :
                > Dear all,
                > Why all this hatred and accusations? I've never seen
                > or heard of anything like this earlier in my life
                > (I'm 55). Not even among this "abominable" heretics
                > and apostates the Roman Catholics or anyone else for
                > that matter. Yes, I have seen it among communists,
                > but otherwise not. This makes me cry out of deepest
                > grief, sorrow and spiritual pain. When I converted
                > to Orthodoxy I expected to find some love,
                > forgiveness and understanding, not only anathemas
                > and hatred.
                Dear Father bless!
                Do not cry. Love, forgiveness and understanding are
                not OPPOSED to anathemas, but co-exist altogether in
                our Church.
                ...
                > "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his
                > brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone
                > who says to his brother, `Raca,' is answerable to
                > the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, `You fool!' will
                > be in danger of the fire of hell." (Matt. 5:22)
                When St Patriarch Tikhon anathemised the bolcheviks,
                His own words are "FOOLS" ("bezumtsy"), so you see,
                dear Father, there can be different contexts. St
                Tikhon was not acting against the teachings of the
                Holy Gospel.

                > "Above all, love each other deeply, because love
                > covers over a multitude of sins." (1 Peter 4:8)
                Of course. Love does not mean obey in order not to
                offend people. On that question of love, Matuchka
                Igumenia Iuliania perfectly answered on one of her
                next posts.

                > No one can deceive the Holy Spirit by saying "We
                > despise our oponents because it's in the best
                > interest of the canons and because we love the laws
                > of the Church". It is like saying "We hate because
                > we love". No person with common sense would ever
                > believe in such a contradiction.
                Again, there is not a word about HATE, as you say, in
                the text of anathema (in the service itself or in the
                words of St Patriarch Tikhon). Please try not to
                divide people into 2 groups :
                1.in favour of dialogue with MP - the good, loving
                ones
                2.in favour of the repentance of MP for their crimes
                before dialogue - the bad, hating ones.
                Just remember that in the text of the Anathema
                Service, which has been sent to me by Archbishop
                Serafim (our former Western Europe bishop, now
                retreated at Lesna convent), the anathema is still
                running againt (my translation from Russian):
                "(point 16) the persecutors of the Church of Christ,
                the impure renegades who raised their hands to the
                Lord's anointed, killing priests, trampling holy
                things underfoot, destroying God's churches, torturing
                our brothers and desecrating our homeland - anathema"
                "(point 17) on those persecuting the Church of Christ
                and (......) having relations with heretics or
                assisting/helping them, or defending their new heresy
                - ecumenism, believing it is a friendly love and the
                union of devided christians - Anathema".

                > Please, behave like Christians, not as vigilantes in
                > a dirty war.
                Exactly. Some saints responded to attacks by love,
                some by fights, they all were saints, and fought no
                the people in front of them, but the false ideas they
                were carrying. Again, these are two different
                concepts, despite some on that list trying to lead us
                on that low level.
                As Christians we have to bear our cross, and respond
                of our acts for the salvation of our souls.
                God have mercy on us!
                Valentina by the Mediterranean Sea.

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