Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Fw: [orthodox-synod] Admiration, a pledge and a resolution for your consideration

Expand Messages
  • Vladimir Kozyreff
    ... From: Vladimir Kozyreff To: ; ; Pierre Kotschoubey
    Message 1 of 2 , Sep 16, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Vladimir Kozyreff" <vladimir.kozyreff@...>
      To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>; <Irene.GOOSSENS@...>; "Pierre
      Kotschoubey" <wamc8783@...>
      Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 10:03 PM
      Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Admiration, a pledge and a resolution for your
      consideration


      > Dear Father Seraphim,
      >
      > I understand and respect your feelings, but I am afraid they are not
      Russian
      > or Orthodox.
      >
      > How can an orthodox say to Mr. Bush: "You have restored dignity and
      decency
      > to our nation's top office, and I believe firmly in my heart that you are
      a
      > man of principle, and someone who not only talks "religiously" as all
      > politicians usually do, but also actually prays".
      >
      > A man who advocates the death penalty and assumes Western actions in
      > Macedonia and Kossovo has little decency for an orthodox. An orthodox does
      > not want anybody to "talk religiously" (the Taliban do it too). An
      orthodox
      > wants people to have an orthodox speech and conduct. To be "religious"
      means
      > little. You have all kinds of religions. Putin too "prays". He even claims
      > to be orthodox.
      >
      > As an American national, you are blinded by the charms of "this world".
      The
      > US government is one of the fiercest enemies of orthodoxy and of Russia,
      it
      > is the champion of apostasy. An orthodox cannot be the "obedient servant"
      of
      > the President of the US.
      >
      > As far as the relationship with the US as a apostasy organisation (which
      is
      > mason, anti orthodox, materialistic and violent), with its President, and
      > its government, the orthodox should adopt a low profile. Orthodoxy is, in
      > principle, in conflict with the US as an institution. Of course, out of
      > compassion and for the sake of not shocking the average US citizen, we
      > should not attract people's attention to our differences with the US as
      > such, especially that country is hosting us. Let us mourn and pray as
      > orthodox first, not as American citizens, if we happen to have the problem
      > of being one.
      >
      > Never say to a politician: "I was thrilled that you put principles above
      > politics, and from that time, I have watched you with growing admiration".
      > Mr. Bush is a politician. Politicians always do politic. Before everything
      > became clear, illustrious people (even Churchill) used to say to Hitler
      what
      > you say now to Bush. Never admire a politician.
      >
      > Can we please stop to use this site to convey messages to or from
      > politicians, especially US politicians? I understand you look for some
      > person that symbolises a nation of which you feel being a part. Do not see
      > the people who have suffered and who have died as Americans, but as
      people,
      > as children of God. Many of them were not Americans.
      >
      > Yours in Christ,
      >
      > VK
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Priest Seraphim Holland" <seraphim@...>
      > To: <president@...>
      > Cc: <vice.president@...>; <first.lady@...>;
      > <mrs.cheney@...>; <senator@...>;
      > <Phil_Gramm@...>
      > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 5:14 PM
      > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Admiration, a pledge and a resolution for your
      > consideration
      >
      >
      > > National Day of Prayer and Remembrance for the Victims Of the
      > > Terrorist Attacks on September 11, 2001
      > >
      > > Dear Mr President:
      > >
      > > I am sending you a resolution regarding the heroic passengers of
      > > United Flight 93 for your consideration, which a friend of mine,
      > > Elizabeth Riggs, who lives near Atlanta, GA, has sent me. It is at the
      > > end of this short letter.
      > >
      > > May I say that your actions in general during your short tenure as our
      > > nations President have made me proud. You have restored dignity and
      > > decency to our nation's top office, and I believe firmly in my heart
      > > that you are a man of principal, and someone who not only talks
      > > "religiously" as all politicians usually do, but also actually prays.
      > >
      > > Your firmness, courage and restraint in these past tragic days have
      > > uplifted my soul. I am glad to see our nation's leader take the reigns
      > > of moral leadership. You are responding in a Christian way to this
      > > crisis, by not crying out for vengeance, while at the same time,
      > > making it clear to the world that you have the resolve to fight
      > > terrorism.
      > >
      > > I am sure that you will make decisions that will cause people to die,
      > > most likely our combatants and the perpetrators, and even innocents,
      > > but that you will make no decision without feeling the full weight of
      > > your actions, and feeling great pain in your soul. I am sure that you
      > > will only authorize killing to prevent even more killing. I too, am a
      > > man who loves peace, and hates war, yet I realize as you do, that we
      > > at at war. I am confident that you will prosecute this war with
      > > dignity, restraint, compassion, prayer, and great personal anguish.
      > >
      > > I will pray for you and with you, not only in obedience to your
      > > proclamation on this day of remembrance and prayer, but also in order,
      > > if God hears my poor prayers, for you to have the strength and wisdom
      > > from God to carry out your tasks.
      > >
      > > Allow me to say one more thing, which I have been meaning to write for
      > > some time, before closing with the text of the proposed resolution.
      > >
      > > When you took office, you immediately showed me what kind of man you
      > > are by decisively and quickly cutting off funding to groups which fund
      > > abortion. That act, in the midst of your "honeymoon period", showed me
      > > that you have great courage. Politically, you would have benefited by
      > > delaying your action for a few weeks, in order to garner more
      > > favorable press. I was thrilled that you put principal above politics,
      > > and from that time, I have watched you with growing admiration.
      > >
      > > May God bless you and help you in all things.
      > >
      > > Your obedient servant,
      > >
      > >
      > > Priest Seraphim Holland
      > > St Nicholas Russian Orthodox Church, Dallas Texas
      > > seraphim@...
      > > PHONE: 972/529-2754
      > > 2102 Summit, McKinney, TX 75071
      > > http://www.orthodox.net
      > >
      > > CC: Vice President Dick Cheney
      > > CC: Laura Bush:
      > > CC: Lynne Cheney
      > > CC: Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison
      > > CC: Senator Phil Gramm
      > > BCC:Numerous mailing lists
      > >
      > > The email from Elizabeth follows
      > >
      > > Dear Listmates,
      > >
      > > I offer the following for your consideration. If you agree with it,
      > > please send it to your senators and representative.
      > >
      > > = = = = =
      > >
      > > Dear Senator / Representative:
      > >
      > > Whereas on September 11, 2001 United Flight 93 from Newark to San
      > > Francisco was hijacked and
      > >
      > > Whereas the intent of the hijackers was to crash the airliner into a
      > > building in Washington, DC and
      > >
      > > Whereas the passengers and flight attendants became aware of the plans
      > > of the hijackers and
      > >
      > > Whereas the passengers and flight attendants became aware of the
      > > attacks on the World Trade Center and
      > >
      > > Whereas the passengers and flight attendants along with members of the
      > > flight crew voted among themselves to resist the hijackers and if
      > > necessary to crash their airplane into an uninhabited area as possible
      > > and
      > >
      > > Whereas flight 93 did, in fact, crash into an uninhabited area killing
      > > all the passengers, members of the flight crew and the hijackers but
      > > with no injury or death to civilians on the ground and
      > >
      > > Whereas the action of the passengers and members of the flight crew
      > > (with the exception of those identified as hijackers) displayed
      > > unprecedented bravery, patriotism and heroics
      > >
      > > THEREFORE be it resolved that all identified passengers and flight
      > > crew of United flight 93 (with the exception of those identified as
      > > hijackers) be awarded posthumously the Congressional Medals of Honor
      > > for their valor AND that said Medals be presented in a public ceremony
      > > to the closest surviving family member AND that at said public
      > > ceremony the President, Cabinet and Members of Congress express to the
      > > nation and to the surviving family members the pride and gratitude of
      > > the nation at their heroic and patriotic actions.
      > >
      > > Yours in Christ,
      > > Elizabeth Riggs, a sinner
      > > and Perennial Student
      > > **********************************************************
      > > http://www.angelfire.com/ga/riggs/index.html
      > > **********************************************************
      > > Our Lady, the Joy of All Who Sorrow Church (ROCOR)
      > > Cumming, GA USA (Atlanta, GA area)
      > > http://www.churchabroad.org
      > > **********************************************************
      > > Glory to Jesus Christ! Glory Forever!
      > > **********************************************************
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • nina_ledkovsky@deutschinc.com
      In respnse to your post: You wrote: Many of them were not Americans. True...but MOST were Americans, as I am an American. And I, as an American, support MY
      Message 2 of 2 , Sep 17, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        In respnse to your post:

        You wrote:
        "Many of them were not Americans."

        True...but MOST were Americans, as I am an American. And I, as an
        American, support MY president (whom I proudly voted for)and MY
        government in the actions that must be taken to guarantee the
        security of America and her people.

        Perhaps you have not read the letter from Bishop Gabriel to Mayor
        Guilianni. In it, he writes, "our prayers are with you and those
        whose duty it is to investigate this outrage and tragedy, that the
        Most High may impart wisdom, skill and knowledge to you all..."

        I agree with my Bishop and I agree with my president. I will pray for
        all those killed and missing and all those suffering as an Orthodox
        person AND as an American citizen - just as we did in a special
        moleben at Synod on 93rd Street yesterday immediately follwing the
        Divine Liturgy - we had a service for "Protection from the Most
        Blessed Theotokos against Barbarians". it was fitting and appropriate
        and absolutely the right thing to do.

        You wrote:
        "Let us mourn and pray as orthodox first,.."

        That's exactly what we did here in NYC. and what we shall continue to
        do.
        "..not as American citizens, if we happen to have the problem of
        being one."

        AMERICA:
        LOVE IT - OR LEAVE IT

        Respectfully,
        Nina Ledkovsky
        New York, NY


        --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "Vladimir Kozyreff"
        <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Vladimir Kozyreff" <vladimir.kozyreff@s...>
        > To: <orthodox-synod@y...>; <Irene.GOOSSENS@c...>; "Pierre
        > Kotschoubey" <wamc8783@w...>
        > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 10:03 PM
        > Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Admiration, a pledge and a resolution
        for your
        > consideration
        >
        >
        > > Dear Father Seraphim,
        > >
        > > I understand and respect your feelings, but I am afraid they are
        not
        > Russian
        > > or Orthodox.
        > >
        > > How can an orthodox say to Mr. Bush: "You have restored dignity
        and
        > decency
        > > to our nation's top office, and I believe firmly in my heart that
        you are
        > a
        > > man of principle, and someone who not only talks "religiously" as
        all
        > > politicians usually do, but also actually prays".
        > >
        > > A man who advocates the death penalty and assumes Western actions
        in
        > > Macedonia and Kossovo has little decency for an orthodox. An
        orthodox does
        > > not want anybody to "talk religiously" (the Taliban do it too). An
        > orthodox
        > > wants people to have an orthodox speech and conduct. To
        be "religious"
        > means
        > > little. You have all kinds of religions. Putin too "prays". He
        even claims
        > > to be orthodox.
        > >
        > > As an American national, you are blinded by the charms of "this
        world".
        > The
        > > US government is one of the fiercest enemies of orthodoxy and of
        Russia,
        > it
        > > is the champion of apostasy. An orthodox cannot be the "obedient
        servant"
        > of
        > > the President of the US.
        > >
        > > As far as the relationship with the US as a apostasy organisation
        (which
        > is
        > > mason, anti orthodox, materialistic and violent), with its
        President, and
        > > its government, the orthodox should adopt a low profile.
        Orthodoxy is, in
        > > principle, in conflict with the US as an institution. Of course,
        out of
        > > compassion and for the sake of not shocking the average US
        citizen, we
        > > should not attract people's attention to our differences with the
        US as
        > > such, especially that country is hosting us. Let us mourn and
        pray as
        > > orthodox first, not as American citizens, if we happen to have
        the problem
        > > of being one.
        > >
        > > Never say to a politician: "I was thrilled that you put
        principles above
        > > politics, and from that time, I have watched you with growing
        admiration".
        > > Mr. Bush is a politician. Politicians always do politic. Before
        everything
        > > became clear, illustrious people (even Churchill) used to say to
        Hitler
        > what
        > > you say now to Bush. Never admire a politician.
        > >
        > > Can we please stop to use this site to convey messages to or from
        > > politicians, especially US politicians? I understand you look for
        some
        > > person that symbolises a nation of which you feel being a part.
        Do not see
        > > the people who have suffered and who have died as Americans, but
        as
        > people,
        > > as children of God. Many of them were not Americans.
        > >
        > > Yours in Christ,
        > >
        > > VK
        > >
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: "Priest Seraphim Holland" <seraphim@a...>
        > > To: <president@w...>
        > > Cc: <vice.president@w...>; <first.lady@w...>;
        > > <mrs.cheney@w...>; <senator@h...>;
        > > <Phil_Gramm@g...>
        > > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 5:14 PM
        > > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Admiration, a pledge and a resolution
        for your
        > > consideration
        > >
        > >
        > > > National Day of Prayer and Remembrance for the Victims Of the
        > > > Terrorist Attacks on September 11, 2001
        > > >
        > > > Dear Mr President:
        > > >
        > > > I am sending you a resolution regarding the heroic passengers of
        > > > United Flight 93 for your consideration, which a friend of mine,
        > > > Elizabeth Riggs, who lives near Atlanta, GA, has sent me. It is
        at the
        > > > end of this short letter.
        > > >
        > > > May I say that your actions in general during your short tenure
        as our
        > > > nations President have made me proud. You have restored dignity
        and
        > > > decency to our nation's top office, and I believe firmly in my
        heart
        > > > that you are a man of principal, and someone who not only talks
        > > > "religiously" as all politicians usually do, but also actually
        prays.
        > > >
        > > > Your firmness, courage and restraint in these past tragic days
        have
        > > > uplifted my soul. I am glad to see our nation's leader take the
        reigns
        > > > of moral leadership. You are responding in a Christian way to
        this
        > > > crisis, by not crying out for vengeance, while at the same time,
        > > > making it clear to the world that you have the resolve to fight
        > > > terrorism.
        > > >
        > > > I am sure that you will make decisions that will cause people
        to die,
        > > > most likely our combatants and the perpetrators, and even
        innocents,
        > > > but that you will make no decision without feeling the full
        weight of
        > > > your actions, and feeling great pain in your soul. I am sure
        that you
        > > > will only authorize killing to prevent even more killing. I
        too, am a
        > > > man who loves peace, and hates war, yet I realize as you do,
        that we
        > > > at at war. I am confident that you will prosecute this war with
        > > > dignity, restraint, compassion, prayer, and great personal
        anguish.
        > > >
        > > > I will pray for you and with you, not only in obedience to your
        > > > proclamation on this day of remembrance and prayer, but also in
        order,
        > > > if God hears my poor prayers, for you to have the strength and
        wisdom
        > > > from God to carry out your tasks.
        > > >
        > > > Allow me to say one more thing, which I have been meaning to
        write for
        > > > some time, before closing with the text of the proposed
        resolution.
        > > >
        > > > When you took office, you immediately showed me what kind of
        man you
        > > > are by decisively and quickly cutting off funding to groups
        which fund
        > > > abortion. That act, in the midst of your "honeymoon period",
        showed me
        > > > that you have great courage. Politically, you would have
        benefited by
        > > > delaying your action for a few weeks, in order to garner more
        > > > favorable press. I was thrilled that you put principal above
        politics,
        > > > and from that time, I have watched you with growing admiration.
        > > >
        > > > May God bless you and help you in all things.
        > > >
        > > > Your obedient servant,
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Priest Seraphim Holland
        > > > St Nicholas Russian Orthodox Church, Dallas Texas
        > > > seraphim@o...
        > > > PHONE: 972/529-2754
        > > > 2102 Summit, McKinney, TX 75071
        > > > http://www.orthodox.net
        > > >
        > > > CC: Vice President Dick Cheney
        > > > CC: Laura Bush:
        > > > CC: Lynne Cheney
        > > > CC: Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison
        > > > CC: Senator Phil Gramm
        > > > BCC:Numerous mailing lists
        > > >
        > > > The email from Elizabeth follows
        > > >
        > > > Dear Listmates,
        > > >
        > > > I offer the following for your consideration. If you agree with
        it,
        > > > please send it to your senators and representative.
        > > >
        > > > = = = = =
        > > >
        > > > Dear Senator / Representative:
        > > >
        > > > Whereas on September 11, 2001 United Flight 93 from Newark to
        San
        > > > Francisco was hijacked and
        > > >
        > > > Whereas the intent of the hijackers was to crash the airliner
        into a
        > > > building in Washington, DC and
        > > >
        > > > Whereas the passengers and flight attendants became aware of
        the plans
        > > > of the hijackers and
        > > >
        > > > Whereas the passengers and flight attendants became aware of the
        > > > attacks on the World Trade Center and
        > > >
        > > > Whereas the passengers and flight attendants along with members
        of the
        > > > flight crew voted among themselves to resist the hijackers and
        if
        > > > necessary to crash their airplane into an uninhabited area as
        possible
        > > > and
        > > >
        > > > Whereas flight 93 did, in fact, crash into an uninhabited area
        killing
        > > > all the passengers, members of the flight crew and the
        hijackers but
        > > > with no injury or death to civilians on the ground and
        > > >
        > > > Whereas the action of the passengers and members of the flight
        crew
        > > > (with the exception of those identified as hijackers) displayed
        > > > unprecedented bravery, patriotism and heroics
        > > >
        > > > THEREFORE be it resolved that all identified passengers and
        flight
        > > > crew of United flight 93 (with the exception of those
        identified as
        > > > hijackers) be awarded posthumously the Congressional Medals of
        Honor
        > > > for their valor AND that said Medals be presented in a public
        ceremony
        > > > to the closest surviving family member AND that at said public
        > > > ceremony the President, Cabinet and Members of Congress express
        to the
        > > > nation and to the surviving family members the pride and
        gratitude of
        > > > the nation at their heroic and patriotic actions.
        > > >
        > > > Yours in Christ,
        > > > Elizabeth Riggs, a sinner
        > > > and Perennial Student
        > > > **********************************************************
        > > > http://www.angelfire.com/ga/riggs/index.html
        > > > **********************************************************
        > > > Our Lady, the Joy of All Who Sorrow Church (ROCOR)
        > > > Cumming, GA USA (Atlanta, GA area)
        > > > http://www.churchabroad.org
        > > > **********************************************************
        > > > Glory to Jesus Christ! Glory Forever!
        > > > **********************************************************
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.