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Re: [orthodox-synod] ROCOR should not alllow itself to be subsumed by the Moscow Patriarchate

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  • Vladimir Kozyreff
    Dear John, Please be adviced that this is not only your personal opinion, but also exactly mine and that of my friends. Let us pray God to help us proclaiming
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 5, 2001
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      Dear John,

      Please be adviced that this is not only your personal opinion, but also
      exactly mine and that of my friends. Let us pray God to help us proclaiming
      all that you say in your beautiful communication.

      Yours in Crist,

      VK



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <johnm.qualls@...>
      To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 1:38 AM
      Subject: [orthodox-synod] ROCOR should not alllow itself to be subsumed by
      the Moscow Patriarchate


      > Dear List,
      >
      > I posted this message concerning the MP on Orthodox-traditions
      > yesterday. I tried to post it on the Orthodox-rocor list but for
      > some reason the moderator of that list never passed it on, even
      > though I am a member of ROCOR.
      >
      >
      > In light of the nauseating statements by MP hierarchs on the occasion
      > of the deaths of Stalin and Brezhnev, we should all be cognizant of
      > the price these hierarchs paid to rule the church. Since Sergius,
      > they have all towed the party line and participated in the world
      > council of churches as an extension of soviet propaganda. All of us
      > have heard tales of MP clergy in the US acting as agents of the KGB
      > during the 60's -80's.
      >
      > These men (MP bishops) have no moral authority. Our Savior said, "Ye
      > cannot serve God and mammon" (Mat6:24). The are corrupt and have
      > decided to serve mammon. They have surrendered to the
      > pursuit of worldly goods through black market sales of tobacco, vodka
      > and who knows what else. We have all heard stories of how they
      > plundered Holy Mount Athos. They bowed down to the evil soviet
      > empire. An empire that murdered Orthodox christians for their faith,
      > enslaved men, sent millions to the gulag, and executed its own
      > repatriated POWs after WWII. These men are grasping after worldly
      > power and they want to swallow us to justify their own betrayal of
      > the Orthodox faith.
      >
      > Our hierarchs (ROCOR) say that they are not rushing to embrace the
      > MP. Indeed, how could we serve false bishops? Yet the record is
      > clear that many ROCOR hierarchs in the past
      > have stated that the MP is a false church; yet there are those on
      > this list and in ROCOR who wish to sweep this all of this under the
      > rug and say
      > this was only a personal opinion. We must not embrace the MP on
      > thier terms because to so would be a betrayal of the countless
      > martyrs for the faith whom we have already glorified.
      >
      > We, ROCOR, have moral and spiritual authority which the MP covets.
      > We
      > must exert that authority to encourage them to renounce sergianism
      > and retire their KGB bishops. Only then should we participate as
      > members in an all russian sobor and elect a real patriarch of Moscow.
      >
      > This is of course my own personal opinion.
      >
      > In Christ our Lord,
      >
      > Rdr John
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
    • Vladimir Kozyreff
      The fact that the MP joined the ecumenical movement before or after is irrelevant. Be careful not to get lost in details and loosing track of the essential
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 5, 2001
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        The fact that the MP joined the ecumenical movement before or after is
        irrelevant. Be careful not to get lost in details and loosing track of the
        essential message, which is absolutely corrrect in Reader's John
        communication.

        Yours in Christ,

        VK

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Joachim Wertz" <wertz@...>
        To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 1:48 AM
        Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] ROCOR should not alllow itself to be subsumed
        by the Moscow Patriarchate


        > Be careful, Reader John, with your facts. The Moscow Patriarchate under
        > Patr. Sergius was NOT a member of the World Council of Churches! AT the
        1948
        > (would be) "Pan-Orthodox" Council in Moscow, Patr. Alexei I and the
        Russian
        > Patriarchal Church strongly condemned the eccumenical movement. It was not
        > until later that the MP participated in the ecumenical movement and the
        > World Council of Churches, and yes at that point it was in the interest of
        > the Soviet government. Don't fall into the trap that "if it is wrong, the
        > CERTAINLY the MP must have done it". Be careful.
        >
        > In Christ,
        > Joachim Wertz
        >
        > ----------
        > From: johnm.qualls@...
        > To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [orthodox-synod] ROCOR should not alllow itself to be subsumed by
        > the Moscow Patriarchate
        > Date: Thu, Aug 2, 2001, 7:38 PM
        >
        >
        > Dear List,
        >
        > I posted this message concerning the MP on Orthodox-traditions
        > yesterday. I tried to post it on the Orthodox-rocor list but for
        > some reason the moderator of that list never passed it on, even
        > though I am a member of ROCOR.
        >
        >
        > In light of the nauseating statements by MP hierarchs on the occasion
        > of the deaths of Stalin and Brezhnev, we should all be cognizant of
        > the price these hierarchs paid to rule the church. Since Sergius,
        > they have all towed the party line and participated in the world
        > council of churches as an extension of soviet propaganda. All of us
        > have heard tales of MP clergy in the US acting as agents of the KGB
        > during the 60's -80's.
        >
        > These men (MP bishops) have no moral authority. Our Savior said, "Ye
        > cannot serve God and mammon" (Mat6:24). The are corrupt and have
        > decided to serve mammon. They have surrendered to the
        > pursuit of worldly goods through black market sales of tobacco, vodka
        > and who knows what else. We have all heard stories of how they
        > plundered Holy Mount Athos. They bowed down to the evil soviet
        > empire. An empire that murdered Orthodox christians for their faith,
        > enslaved men, sent millions to the gulag, and executed its own
        > repatriated POWs after WWII. These men are grasping after worldly
        > power and they want to swallow us to justify their own betrayal of
        > the Orthodox faith.
        >
        > Our hierarchs (ROCOR) say that they are not rushing to embrace the
        > MP. Indeed, how could we serve false bishops? Yet the record is
        > clear that many ROCOR hierarchs in the past
        > have stated that the MP is a false church; yet there are those on
        > this list and in ROCOR who wish to sweep this all of this under the
        > rug and say
        > this was only a personal opinion. We must not embrace the MP on
        > thier terms because to so would be a betrayal of the countless
        > martyrs for the faith whom we have already glorified.
        >
        > We, ROCOR, have moral and spiritual authority which the MP covets.
        > We
        > must exert that authority to encourage them to renounce sergianism
        > and retire their KGB bishops. Only then should we participate as
        > members in an all russian sobor and elect a real patriarch of Moscow.
        >
        > This is of course my own personal opinion.
        >
        > In Christ our Lord,
        >
        > Rdr John
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        >
        >
        >
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        > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
        >
        >
        >
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        >
        >
        >
      • johnm.qualls@mindspring.com
        Dear Vladimir, Thanks for your comments. 25 years ago the views I expressed below were shared by most people in ROCOR. Today I am not so sure, though most
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 9, 2001
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          Dear Vladimir,

          Thanks for your comments. 25 years ago the views I expressed below
          were shared by most people in ROCOR. Today I am not so sure, though
          most people I talk with agree with me. Unity of the church is a
          wonderful objective but we must not compromise the faith handed down
          by our orthodox fathers. The retirement of Alexei II and his KGB
          appointed bishops would go a long way toward achieving the goal of
          reuniting the church.

          In Christ our Lord,

          Rdr John

          --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "Vladimir Kozyreff"
          <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
          > Dear John,
          >
          > Please be adviced that this is not only your personal opinion, but
          also
          > exactly mine and that of my friends. Let us pray God to help us
          proclaiming
          > all that you say in your beautiful communication.
          >
          > Yours in Crist,
          >
          > VK
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: <johnm.qualls@m...>
          > To: <orthodox-synod@y...>
          > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 1:38 AM
          > Subject: [orthodox-synod] ROCOR should not alllow itself to be
          subsumed by
          > the Moscow Patriarchate
          >
          >
          > > Dear List,
          > >
          > > I posted this message concerning the MP on Orthodox-traditions
          > > yesterday. I tried to post it on the Orthodox-rocor list but for
          > > some reason the moderator of that list never passed it on, even
          > > though I am a member of ROCOR.
          > >
          > >
          > > In light of the nauseating statements by MP hierarchs on the
          occasion
          > > of the deaths of Stalin and Brezhnev, we should all be cognizant
          of
          > > the price these hierarchs paid to rule the church. Since Sergius,
          > > they have all towed the party line and participated in the world
          > > council of churches as an extension of soviet propaganda. All of
          us
          > > have heard tales of MP clergy in the US acting as agents of the
          KGB
          > > during the 60's -80's.
          > >
          > > These men (MP bishops) have no moral authority. Our Savior
          said, "Ye
          > > cannot serve God and mammon" (Mat6:24). The are corrupt and have
          > > decided to serve mammon. They have surrendered to the
          > > pursuit of worldly goods through black market sales of tobacco,
          vodka
          > > and who knows what else. We have all heard stories of how they
          > > plundered Holy Mount Athos. They bowed down to the evil soviet
          > > empire. An empire that murdered Orthodox christians for their
          faith,
          > > enslaved men, sent millions to the gulag, and executed its own
          > > repatriated POWs after WWII. These men are grasping after worldly
          > > power and they want to swallow us to justify their own betrayal of
          > > the Orthodox faith.
          > >
          > > Our hierarchs (ROCOR) say that they are not rushing to embrace the
          > > MP. Indeed, how could we serve false bishops? Yet the record is
          > > clear that many ROCOR hierarchs in the past
          > > have stated that the MP is a false church; yet there are those on
          > > this list and in ROCOR who wish to sweep this all of this under
          the
          > > rug and say
          > > this was only a personal opinion. We must not embrace the MP on
          > > thier terms because to so would be a betrayal of the countless
          > > martyrs for the faith whom we have already glorified.
          > >
          > > We, ROCOR, have moral and spiritual authority which the MP covets.
          > > We
          > > must exert that authority to encourage them to renounce sergianism
          > > and retire their KGB bishops. Only then should we participate as
          > > members in an all russian sobor and elect a real patriarch of
          Moscow.
          > >
          > > This is of course my own personal opinion.
          > >
          > > In Christ our Lord,
          > >
          > > Rdr John
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          > >
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