Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

ROCOR should not alllow itself to be subsumed by the Moscow Patriarchate

Expand Messages
  • johnm.qualls@mindspring.com
    Dear List, I posted this message concerning the MP on Orthodox-traditions yesterday. I tried to post it on the Orthodox-rocor list but for some reason the
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 2, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear List,

      I posted this message concerning the MP on Orthodox-traditions
      yesterday. I tried to post it on the Orthodox-rocor list but for
      some reason the moderator of that list never passed it on, even
      though I am a member of ROCOR.


      In light of the nauseating statements by MP hierarchs on the occasion
      of the deaths of Stalin and Brezhnev, we should all be cognizant of
      the price these hierarchs paid to rule the church. Since Sergius,
      they have all towed the party line and participated in the world
      council of churches as an extension of soviet propaganda. All of us
      have heard tales of MP clergy in the US acting as agents of the KGB
      during the 60's -80's.

      These men (MP bishops) have no moral authority. Our Savior said, "Ye
      cannot serve God and mammon" (Mat6:24). The are corrupt and have
      decided to serve mammon. They have surrendered to the
      pursuit of worldly goods through black market sales of tobacco, vodka
      and who knows what else. We have all heard stories of how they
      plundered Holy Mount Athos. They bowed down to the evil soviet
      empire. An empire that murdered Orthodox christians for their faith,
      enslaved men, sent millions to the gulag, and executed its own
      repatriated POWs after WWII. These men are grasping after worldly
      power and they want to swallow us to justify their own betrayal of
      the Orthodox faith.

      Our hierarchs (ROCOR) say that they are not rushing to embrace the
      MP. Indeed, how could we serve false bishops? Yet the record is
      clear that many ROCOR hierarchs in the past
      have stated that the MP is a false church; yet there are those on
      this list and in ROCOR who wish to sweep this all of this under the
      rug and say
      this was only a personal opinion. We must not embrace the MP on
      thier terms because to so would be a betrayal of the countless
      martyrs for the faith whom we have already glorified.

      We, ROCOR, have moral and spiritual authority which the MP covets.
      We
      must exert that authority to encourage them to renounce sergianism
      and retire their KGB bishops. Only then should we participate as
      members in an all russian sobor and elect a real patriarch of Moscow.

      This is of course my own personal opinion.

      In Christ our Lord,

      Rdr John
    • Joachim Wertz
      Be careful, Reader John, with your facts. The Moscow Patriarchate under Patr. Sergius was NOT a member of the World Council of Churches! AT the 1948 (would be)
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 4, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        Be careful, Reader John, with your facts. The Moscow Patriarchate under
        Patr. Sergius was NOT a member of the World Council of Churches! AT the 1948
        (would be) "Pan-Orthodox" Council in Moscow, Patr. Alexei I and the Russian
        Patriarchal Church strongly condemned the eccumenical movement. It was not
        until later that the MP participated in the ecumenical movement and the
        World Council of Churches, and yes at that point it was in the interest of
        the Soviet government. Don't fall into the trap that "if it is wrong, the
        CERTAINLY the MP must have done it". Be careful.

        In Christ,
        Joachim Wertz

        ----------
        From: johnm.qualls@...
        To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [orthodox-synod] ROCOR should not alllow itself to be subsumed by
        the Moscow Patriarchate
        Date: Thu, Aug 2, 2001, 7:38 PM


        Dear List,

        I posted this message concerning the MP on Orthodox-traditions
        yesterday. I tried to post it on the Orthodox-rocor list but for
        some reason the moderator of that list never passed it on, even
        though I am a member of ROCOR.


        In light of the nauseating statements by MP hierarchs on the occasion
        of the deaths of Stalin and Brezhnev, we should all be cognizant of
        the price these hierarchs paid to rule the church. Since Sergius,
        they have all towed the party line and participated in the world
        council of churches as an extension of soviet propaganda. All of us
        have heard tales of MP clergy in the US acting as agents of the KGB
        during the 60's -80's.

        These men (MP bishops) have no moral authority. Our Savior said, "Ye
        cannot serve God and mammon" (Mat6:24). The are corrupt and have
        decided to serve mammon. They have surrendered to the
        pursuit of worldly goods through black market sales of tobacco, vodka
        and who knows what else. We have all heard stories of how they
        plundered Holy Mount Athos. They bowed down to the evil soviet
        empire. An empire that murdered Orthodox christians for their faith,
        enslaved men, sent millions to the gulag, and executed its own
        repatriated POWs after WWII. These men are grasping after worldly
        power and they want to swallow us to justify their own betrayal of
        the Orthodox faith.

        Our hierarchs (ROCOR) say that they are not rushing to embrace the
        MP. Indeed, how could we serve false bishops? Yet the record is
        clear that many ROCOR hierarchs in the past
        have stated that the MP is a false church; yet there are those on
        this list and in ROCOR who wish to sweep this all of this under the
        rug and say
        this was only a personal opinion. We must not embrace the MP on
        thier terms because to so would be a betrayal of the countless
        martyrs for the faith whom we have already glorified.

        We, ROCOR, have moral and spiritual authority which the MP covets.
        We
        must exert that authority to encourage them to renounce sergianism
        and retire their KGB bishops. Only then should we participate as
        members in an all russian sobor and elect a real patriarch of Moscow.

        This is of course my own personal opinion.

        In Christ our Lord,

        Rdr John





        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod



        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
        <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Vladimir Kozyreff
        Dear John, Please be adviced that this is not only your personal opinion, but also exactly mine and that of my friends. Let us pray God to help us proclaiming
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 5, 2001
        • 0 Attachment
          Dear John,

          Please be adviced that this is not only your personal opinion, but also
          exactly mine and that of my friends. Let us pray God to help us proclaiming
          all that you say in your beautiful communication.

          Yours in Crist,

          VK



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <johnm.qualls@...>
          To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 1:38 AM
          Subject: [orthodox-synod] ROCOR should not alllow itself to be subsumed by
          the Moscow Patriarchate


          > Dear List,
          >
          > I posted this message concerning the MP on Orthodox-traditions
          > yesterday. I tried to post it on the Orthodox-rocor list but for
          > some reason the moderator of that list never passed it on, even
          > though I am a member of ROCOR.
          >
          >
          > In light of the nauseating statements by MP hierarchs on the occasion
          > of the deaths of Stalin and Brezhnev, we should all be cognizant of
          > the price these hierarchs paid to rule the church. Since Sergius,
          > they have all towed the party line and participated in the world
          > council of churches as an extension of soviet propaganda. All of us
          > have heard tales of MP clergy in the US acting as agents of the KGB
          > during the 60's -80's.
          >
          > These men (MP bishops) have no moral authority. Our Savior said, "Ye
          > cannot serve God and mammon" (Mat6:24). The are corrupt and have
          > decided to serve mammon. They have surrendered to the
          > pursuit of worldly goods through black market sales of tobacco, vodka
          > and who knows what else. We have all heard stories of how they
          > plundered Holy Mount Athos. They bowed down to the evil soviet
          > empire. An empire that murdered Orthodox christians for their faith,
          > enslaved men, sent millions to the gulag, and executed its own
          > repatriated POWs after WWII. These men are grasping after worldly
          > power and they want to swallow us to justify their own betrayal of
          > the Orthodox faith.
          >
          > Our hierarchs (ROCOR) say that they are not rushing to embrace the
          > MP. Indeed, how could we serve false bishops? Yet the record is
          > clear that many ROCOR hierarchs in the past
          > have stated that the MP is a false church; yet there are those on
          > this list and in ROCOR who wish to sweep this all of this under the
          > rug and say
          > this was only a personal opinion. We must not embrace the MP on
          > thier terms because to so would be a betrayal of the countless
          > martyrs for the faith whom we have already glorified.
          >
          > We, ROCOR, have moral and spiritual authority which the MP covets.
          > We
          > must exert that authority to encourage them to renounce sergianism
          > and retire their KGB bishops. Only then should we participate as
          > members in an all russian sobor and elect a real patriarch of Moscow.
          >
          > This is of course my own personal opinion.
          >
          > In Christ our Lord,
          >
          > Rdr John
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
        • Vladimir Kozyreff
          The fact that the MP joined the ecumenical movement before or after is irrelevant. Be careful not to get lost in details and loosing track of the essential
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 5, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            The fact that the MP joined the ecumenical movement before or after is
            irrelevant. Be careful not to get lost in details and loosing track of the
            essential message, which is absolutely corrrect in Reader's John
            communication.

            Yours in Christ,

            VK

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Joachim Wertz" <wertz@...>
            To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 1:48 AM
            Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] ROCOR should not alllow itself to be subsumed
            by the Moscow Patriarchate


            > Be careful, Reader John, with your facts. The Moscow Patriarchate under
            > Patr. Sergius was NOT a member of the World Council of Churches! AT the
            1948
            > (would be) "Pan-Orthodox" Council in Moscow, Patr. Alexei I and the
            Russian
            > Patriarchal Church strongly condemned the eccumenical movement. It was not
            > until later that the MP participated in the ecumenical movement and the
            > World Council of Churches, and yes at that point it was in the interest of
            > the Soviet government. Don't fall into the trap that "if it is wrong, the
            > CERTAINLY the MP must have done it". Be careful.
            >
            > In Christ,
            > Joachim Wertz
            >
            > ----------
            > From: johnm.qualls@...
            > To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [orthodox-synod] ROCOR should not alllow itself to be subsumed by
            > the Moscow Patriarchate
            > Date: Thu, Aug 2, 2001, 7:38 PM
            >
            >
            > Dear List,
            >
            > I posted this message concerning the MP on Orthodox-traditions
            > yesterday. I tried to post it on the Orthodox-rocor list but for
            > some reason the moderator of that list never passed it on, even
            > though I am a member of ROCOR.
            >
            >
            > In light of the nauseating statements by MP hierarchs on the occasion
            > of the deaths of Stalin and Brezhnev, we should all be cognizant of
            > the price these hierarchs paid to rule the church. Since Sergius,
            > they have all towed the party line and participated in the world
            > council of churches as an extension of soviet propaganda. All of us
            > have heard tales of MP clergy in the US acting as agents of the KGB
            > during the 60's -80's.
            >
            > These men (MP bishops) have no moral authority. Our Savior said, "Ye
            > cannot serve God and mammon" (Mat6:24). The are corrupt and have
            > decided to serve mammon. They have surrendered to the
            > pursuit of worldly goods through black market sales of tobacco, vodka
            > and who knows what else. We have all heard stories of how they
            > plundered Holy Mount Athos. They bowed down to the evil soviet
            > empire. An empire that murdered Orthodox christians for their faith,
            > enslaved men, sent millions to the gulag, and executed its own
            > repatriated POWs after WWII. These men are grasping after worldly
            > power and they want to swallow us to justify their own betrayal of
            > the Orthodox faith.
            >
            > Our hierarchs (ROCOR) say that they are not rushing to embrace the
            > MP. Indeed, how could we serve false bishops? Yet the record is
            > clear that many ROCOR hierarchs in the past
            > have stated that the MP is a false church; yet there are those on
            > this list and in ROCOR who wish to sweep this all of this under the
            > rug and say
            > this was only a personal opinion. We must not embrace the MP on
            > thier terms because to so would be a betrayal of the countless
            > martyrs for the faith whom we have already glorified.
            >
            > We, ROCOR, have moral and spiritual authority which the MP covets.
            > We
            > must exert that authority to encourage them to renounce sergianism
            > and retire their KGB bishops. Only then should we participate as
            > members in an all russian sobor and elect a real patriarch of Moscow.
            >
            > This is of course my own personal opinion.
            >
            > In Christ our Lord,
            >
            > Rdr John
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
            > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
          • johnm.qualls@mindspring.com
            Dear Vladimir, Thanks for your comments. 25 years ago the views I expressed below were shared by most people in ROCOR. Today I am not so sure, though most
            Message 5 of 5 , Aug 9, 2001
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear Vladimir,

              Thanks for your comments. 25 years ago the views I expressed below
              were shared by most people in ROCOR. Today I am not so sure, though
              most people I talk with agree with me. Unity of the church is a
              wonderful objective but we must not compromise the faith handed down
              by our orthodox fathers. The retirement of Alexei II and his KGB
              appointed bishops would go a long way toward achieving the goal of
              reuniting the church.

              In Christ our Lord,

              Rdr John

              --- In orthodox-synod@y..., "Vladimir Kozyreff"
              <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
              > Dear John,
              >
              > Please be adviced that this is not only your personal opinion, but
              also
              > exactly mine and that of my friends. Let us pray God to help us
              proclaiming
              > all that you say in your beautiful communication.
              >
              > Yours in Crist,
              >
              > VK
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: <johnm.qualls@m...>
              > To: <orthodox-synod@y...>
              > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 1:38 AM
              > Subject: [orthodox-synod] ROCOR should not alllow itself to be
              subsumed by
              > the Moscow Patriarchate
              >
              >
              > > Dear List,
              > >
              > > I posted this message concerning the MP on Orthodox-traditions
              > > yesterday. I tried to post it on the Orthodox-rocor list but for
              > > some reason the moderator of that list never passed it on, even
              > > though I am a member of ROCOR.
              > >
              > >
              > > In light of the nauseating statements by MP hierarchs on the
              occasion
              > > of the deaths of Stalin and Brezhnev, we should all be cognizant
              of
              > > the price these hierarchs paid to rule the church. Since Sergius,
              > > they have all towed the party line and participated in the world
              > > council of churches as an extension of soviet propaganda. All of
              us
              > > have heard tales of MP clergy in the US acting as agents of the
              KGB
              > > during the 60's -80's.
              > >
              > > These men (MP bishops) have no moral authority. Our Savior
              said, "Ye
              > > cannot serve God and mammon" (Mat6:24). The are corrupt and have
              > > decided to serve mammon. They have surrendered to the
              > > pursuit of worldly goods through black market sales of tobacco,
              vodka
              > > and who knows what else. We have all heard stories of how they
              > > plundered Holy Mount Athos. They bowed down to the evil soviet
              > > empire. An empire that murdered Orthodox christians for their
              faith,
              > > enslaved men, sent millions to the gulag, and executed its own
              > > repatriated POWs after WWII. These men are grasping after worldly
              > > power and they want to swallow us to justify their own betrayal of
              > > the Orthodox faith.
              > >
              > > Our hierarchs (ROCOR) say that they are not rushing to embrace the
              > > MP. Indeed, how could we serve false bishops? Yet the record is
              > > clear that many ROCOR hierarchs in the past
              > > have stated that the MP is a false church; yet there are those on
              > > this list and in ROCOR who wish to sweep this all of this under
              the
              > > rug and say
              > > this was only a personal opinion. We must not embrace the MP on
              > > thier terms because to so would be a betrayal of the countless
              > > martyrs for the faith whom we have already glorified.
              > >
              > > We, ROCOR, have moral and spiritual authority which the MP covets.
              > > We
              > > must exert that authority to encourage them to renounce sergianism
              > > and retire their KGB bishops. Only then should we participate as
              > > members in an all russian sobor and elect a real patriarch of
              Moscow.
              > >
              > > This is of course my own personal opinion.
              > >
              > > In Christ our Lord,
              > >
              > > Rdr John
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
              > >
              > >
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.