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ROCOR Canonicity

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  • searchguy43@webtv.net
    Greetings in Christ, This is my first post to this group. I am a catechumen and am wondering if anyone can direct me to some good sources on the issue of the
    Message 1 of 4 , Jun 15, 2001
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      Greetings in Christ,
      This is my first post to this group. I am a catechumen and am wondering if anyone can direct me to some good sources on the issue of the canonical status of ROCOR. I am being advised by other Orthodox groups to stay away because 1)it is non-canonical due to breaking the ancient canons by it's separation in the early part of the last century, and 2) it is therefore schismatic. I've read an excellent history of the issue from the OCA point of view, but am interested in the other side of the story.
      I have attended some services and have found them beautiful, reverent, and conservative. I have been advised before to contact the local priest about my questions but I am not comfortable with that at present, so I am hoping for some good input. I note that St. John Maximovitch was ROCOR, and he certainly is an amazing story, but I believe he was actually ordained by the Serbian Church while in that area in his early life. Hope you can help. Mark
    • Fr. John Whiteford
      A good place to look is at: http://orthodoxinfo.com/resistance/res_roca.htm Also, St. John was, I believe, consecrated in Serbia, but the ROCA was at that time
      Message 2 of 4 , Jun 16, 2001
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        A good place to look is at:

        http://orthodoxinfo.com/resistance/res_roca.htm

        Also, St. John was, I believe, consecrated in Serbia, but the ROCA
        was at that time based in Serbia with the blessings of the Serbian
        Patriarchate. He was consecrated by the ROCA... though there may
        well have been Serbian participation.

        -Fr. John Whiteford

        --- In orthodox-synod@y..., searchguy43@w... wrote:
        > Greetings in Christ,
        > This is my first post to this group. I am a catechumen and am
        wondering if anyone can direct me to some good sources on the issue
        of the canonical status of ROCOR. I am being advised by other
        Orthodox groups to stay away because 1)it is non-canonical due to
        breaking the ancient canons by it's separation in the early part of
        the last century, and 2) it is therefore schismatic. I've read an
        excellent history of the issue from the OCA point of view, but am
        interested in the other side of the story.
        > I have attended some services and have found them beautiful,
        reverent, and conservative. I have been advised before to contact the
        local priest about my questions but I am not comfortable with that at
        present, so I am hoping for some good input. I note that St. John
        Maximovitch was ROCOR, and he certainly is an amazing story, but I
        believe he was actually ordained by the Serbian Church while in that
        area in his early life. Hope you can help. Mark
      • Joachim Wertz
        Dear Mark, ROCOR is a canonical part of the Russian Church. The Russian Church in the 20th century had a rather convoluted and not so neat history. There were
        Message 3 of 4 , Jun 16, 2001
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          Dear Mark,
          ROCOR is a canonical part of the Russian Church. The Russian Church in the
          20th century had a rather convoluted and not so neat history. There were
          canonical anomalies all over the place, due to historical factors and the
          persecution. Many canonical Orthodox Churches maintained communion with
          ROCOR until fairly recently, lets say early 1970's. (the exceptions being
          those Churches in the Soviet block) The Serbian and Jerusalem Churches
          still do officially and openly serve with ROCOR. St. John Maximovitch was
          ordained IN Serbia, but not by the Serbian Church. He was ordained by ROCOR,
          which at that time was headquartered in Serbia. I always get quite annoyed
          when I hear of ROCOR being criticized for being "noncanonical" by certain
          self-appointed "canonical experts" in the OCA. The history of the OCA (and
          as it once was, the former American Metropolia) is marked by various periods
          of dubious canonicity. As you are still a catechumen you should know that
          the American Metropolia was at different times, an integral part of ROCOR.
          OCA spokesmen like to call ROCOR a "museum piece". Well the same thing can
          be said with a lot more tangible evidence of the Moscow Patriarchate, the
          Church from whom the OCA obtained their "autocephaly", an autocephaly that
          now seems to be being questioned as to its wisdom by some. Another point:
          In the rhetoric used to justify the American autocephaly, and indeed
          nowadays to make it real, since in reality it is not, the greatest sin seems
          to be having more than one bishop in a single city/territory. Well, let the
          OCA "canonical experts" vent their spleen upon their SCOBA brethern and give
          ROCOR a break, since all of the SCOBA jurisdictions overlap. If you really
          want canonical autocephaly, the problem is at your front door.
          Forgive me if I have "vented my own spleen" a little in this message. I just
          want to offer to a catechumen a little bit of information about a matter you
          are unfailingly going to get caught up in. Believe me,I was once a
          catechumen myself. By the way, I am a member of the Serbian Orthodox Church,
          though I was baptised in ROCOR and attend services at ROCOR churches
          regularly.

          In Christ,
          Joachim Wertz
          ----------
          From: searchguy43@...
          To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [orthodox-synod] ROCOR Canonicity
          Date: Fri, Jun 15, 2001, 10:27 PM


          Greetings in Christ,
          This is my first post to this group. I am a catechumen and am wondering if
          anyone can direct me to some good sources on the issue of the canonical
          status of ROCOR. I am being advised by other Orthodox groups to stay away
          because 1)it is non-canonical due to breaking the ancient canons by it's
          separation in the early part of the last century, and 2) it is therefore
          schismatic. I've read an excellent history of the issue from the OCA point
          of view, but am interested in the other side of the story.
          I have attended some services and have found them beautiful, reverent, and
          conservative. I have been advised before to contact the local priest about
          my questions but I am not comfortable with that at present, so I am hoping
          for some good input. I note that St. John Maximovitch was ROCOR, and he
          certainly is an amazing story, but I believe he was actually ordained by the
          Serbian Church while in that area in his early life. Hope you can help. Mark


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        • Oleg
          I believe St John was ordained by Metropolitan Anthony, then head of ROCOR in 1934 with appointment to the Shanghai cathedra. There is a pamphlet entitled
          Message 4 of 4 , Jun 17, 2001
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            I believe St John was ordained by Metropolitan Anthony, then head of ROCOR
            in 1934 with appointment to the Shanghai cathedra.

            There is a pamphlet entitled " The Truth about the Russian Church Abroad" by
            M.Rodzianko which is available for downloading and may answer a lot of your
            questions. I don't remember the location.

            The millions of people who were and are members of ROCOR are living
            witnesses to its canonicity.

            Oleg

            All Russian Saints Day 2001
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