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[orthodox-synod] Re: Fwd: "Book Review Section," 25 July

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  • LJames6034@aol.com
    I did not say he was NOT a saint. What I questioned is how one could have affection for such a person. He is, after all, the origin of the Calvinistic
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 5, 1999
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      I did not say he was NOT a saint. What I questioned is how one could have
      "affection" for such a person.

      He is, after all, the origin of the Calvinistic notion that only the Elect go
      to heaven. The rest of us go to hell, and we comprise the vast majority.

      The smug self-righteousness to be found among Dutch Calvinists (in Grand
      Rapids, MI, where I was the patriarchal priest) is the fruit borne of the
      thinking of St. Augustine of Hippo.

      I remember a pretty child (Eurocentrically speaking) who is blond-haired,
      blue-eyed, and Dutch looking. She was in my World History Class at
      Davenport College, Grand Rapids.

      "I believe in total depravity," she said.

      I walked over to her, looked into her little Dutch face and said: "Funny,
      you don't look totally depraved to me."

      I don't think she got it. It's all the rest of us who are totally depraved.
      The Elect are better than we. They do not even owe us the politeness we are
      wont to give to dogs.

      I doubt many of us could hold Augustine in great affection. He was too
      rigid. He was humorless, like a great many Southern Baptist and other
      Calvinist ministers.

      I suppose it must be the comtemplation of all that suffering in Hell? No.
      It couldn't be that. They don't think they are going. It's you and me.



      Father Andrew
    • LJames6034@aol.com
      I forgot to mention to you that Paul Inglesby was the founder of the Anglican/Orthodox Society, in England, and, before he gave up and was baptized by Greek
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 8, 1999
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        I forgot to mention to you that Paul Inglesby was the founder of the
        Anglican/Orthodox Society, in England, and, before he gave up and was
        baptized by Greek Old Calendarists, that Society was responsible for the
        conversion of some 45 Anglicans to Orthodoxy. Not surprisingly, the
        Anglicans came to look upon it (and him) as a threat.

        Paul is now attached to the godless commies of the Moscow Patriarchate, via
        Anthony Bloom. Archbishop Anthony, suprisingly, lets Paul and his wife
        reserve a consecrated Lamb in their home chapel. Apparently, Paul
        administers Holy Communion to Himself and Anna, with Anthony Bloom's consent.

        My question is: From what Jesut school did Archbishop Anthony graduate?
        (I, myself, graduated from Xavier University, Cincinnati, which, by some
        small chance, is a Jesuit school. That's how I recognize their thinking so
        readily.)
      • emrys`nz
        Father Andrew, You are being naughty! Given Paul Inglesby s background, his present situation and his age, the blessing from Archbp Anthony is not without
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 8, 1999
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          Father Andrew,

          You are being naughty! Given Paul Inglesby's background, his present
          situation and his age, the blessing from Archbp Anthony is not without both
          common sense and charity.

          Fr Ambrose
          who never had even the slightest contact with Jesuits, apart from once
          trying (unsuccessfully) to convert a Maltese one!
          ~*~*~*~*~*



          -----Original Message-----
          From: LJames6034@... <LJames6034@...>


          >I forgot to mention to you that Paul Inglesby was the founder of the
          >Anglican/Orthodox Society, in England, and, before he gave up and was
          >baptized by Greek Old Calendarists, that Society was responsible for the
          >conversion of some 45 Anglicans to Orthodoxy. Not surprisingly, the
          >Anglicans came to look upon it (and him) as a threat.
          >
          >Paul is now attached to the godless commies of the Moscow Patriarchate, via
          >Anthony Bloom. Archbishop Anthony, suprisingly, lets Paul and his wife
          >reserve a consecrated Lamb in their home chapel. Apparently, Paul
          >administers Holy Communion to Himself and Anna, with Anthony Bloom's
          consent.
          >
          >My question is: From what Jesut school did Archbishop Anthony graduate?
          >(I, myself, graduated from Xavier University, Cincinnati, which, by some
          >small chance, is a Jesuit school. That's how I recognize their thinking so
          >readily.)
          >
        • Stephen Shott
          ... I may well be wrong, but I don t think that Total Depravity means that one is totally depraved , but only that one cannot help but sin, as a result of
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 9, 1999
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            At 9:32 PM -0400 on 5/8/99, Father Andrew wrote:

            >I remember a pretty child (Eurocentrically speaking) who is blond-haired,
            >blue-eyed, and Dutch looking. She was in my World History Class at
            >Davenport College, Grand Rapids.
            >
            >"I believe in total depravity," she said.
            >
            >I walked over to her, looked into her little Dutch face and said: "Funny,
            >you don't look totally depraved to me."
            >
            >I don't think she got it. It's all the rest of us who are totally depraved.
            > The Elect are better than we. They do not even owe us the politeness we are
            >wont to give to dogs.

            I may well be wrong, but I don't think that Total Depravity means
            that one is "totally depraved", but only that one cannot help but
            sin, as a result of original sin.

            It was my understanding of this Calvinist doctrine that *all* are
            totally depraved (i.e., cannot help but sin), but that the elect, for
            whom (and only for whom) Christ died, are saved from damnation by
            God's irresistible Grace (i.e., they cannot help but be saved,
            because God has chosen them). Those that are not among the elect (the
            reprobate) are justly damned for their sins which they could not help
            but commit.

            Curious, really.

            Stephen.
            --
            Stephen Shott, Email: Stephen.Shott@...
            WWW: http://www.pobox.com/~stephen.shott
            (Includes PGP public key)
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