Re: [orthodox-synod] common prayer
- On Sat, 30 Dec 2000, Olga Mitrenina wrote:
> > > Has there been common prayer with the Monophosites?This claim is relatively easy to disprove.
> > Depends on the definition of "common prayer".
> They serve common molebens when partiarch goes to Armenia.
> For example the article in Armenian newspaper "Avatamk" #35-36, 1996
> describes how partiarch Alexei and Catholicos Garegin served common molebens
> in Armenia.
Only someone not aware of the differences between the Slavonic and
Greek (let alone Armenian!) service books would talk of a "concelebrated
The Moleben is largely a form of worship that has taken shape in
the Slavonic tradition. There are a few Greek services known as
"Paraklesis", but they differ enough from Russian Molebens to make
concelebration hard for those not fluent in both languages and traditions.
The word "Moleben" is sometimes translated into English as "Te Deum
service", but in reality the way they have developed and come to be used
is so peculiarly Russian as to make a clear translation difficult.
I have studied the Armenian language and service books to some
extent--am no expert--but have seen nothing faintly resembling a "Moleben"
such as we are accustomed to.
However, a reference several years ago to Patriarch Alexy II
having "joined in a Moleben" turned out to be merely a translation of a
translation of a a translation--and if much can be *lost* in translation,
quite a bit can be *added* as well.
What appears to have been the case is that the two Patriarchs
simply visited the church together, (the one in question had been
consecrated as an Orthodox church)--and Patriarch Alexy had crossed
himself, or perhaps prayed to himself. (One can pray for many things!).
The rest was "media hype".
Fr. John R. Shaw
- Baref dzes, dear Father John,
> I have studied the Armenian language and service books to somePatriarch-Catholicos Garegin and some other Armenian spiritual authorities
> extent--am no expert--but have seen nothing faintly resembling a "Moleben"
> such as we are accustomed to.
graduated Moscow Patriarchate seminary in Zagorsk, so they know how to serve
> However, a reference several years ago to Patriarch Alexy IIIt was not "a" reference, but it was a number of loud common prayers.
> having "joined in a Moleben"
There is an MP parish in Yereven, Khankavan, with a very good rector, Father
Vladimir. You can discuss it with them. Although they count ROCA to be a
schizm, they will probably tell you some interesting details.
- On Tue, 2 Jan 2001, Olga Mitrenina wrote:
> Baref dzes, dear Father John,There, you see--I would have said "Parev tsez". But I started
with the Western Armenian.
Fr. John R. Shaw