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Re: [orthodox-synod] common prayer

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  • Rev. John R. Shaw
    ... This claim is relatively easy to disprove. Only someone not aware of the differences between the Slavonic and Greek (let alone Armenian!) service books
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 1, 2001
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      On Sat, 30 Dec 2000, Olga Mitrenina wrote:

      > > > Has there been common prayer with the Monophosites?

      > > Depends on the definition of "common prayer".
      >
      > They serve common molebens when partiarch goes to Armenia.
      > For example the article in Armenian newspaper "Avatamk" #35-36, 1996
      > describes how partiarch Alexei and Catholicos Garegin served common molebens
      > in Armenia.
      >
      This claim is relatively easy to disprove.

      Only someone not aware of the differences between the Slavonic and
      Greek (let alone Armenian!) service books would talk of a "concelebrated
      Moleben".

      The Moleben is largely a form of worship that has taken shape in
      the Slavonic tradition. There are a few Greek services known as
      "Paraklesis", but they differ enough from Russian Molebens to make
      concelebration hard for those not fluent in both languages and traditions.
      The word "Moleben" is sometimes translated into English as "Te Deum
      service", but in reality the way they have developed and come to be used
      is so peculiarly Russian as to make a clear translation difficult.

      I have studied the Armenian language and service books to some
      extent--am no expert--but have seen nothing faintly resembling a "Moleben"
      such as we are accustomed to.

      However, a reference several years ago to Patriarch Alexy II
      having "joined in a Moleben" turned out to be merely a translation of a
      translation of a a translation--and if much can be *lost* in translation,
      quite a bit can be *added* as well.

      What appears to have been the case is that the two Patriarchs
      simply visited the church together, (the one in question had been
      consecrated as an Orthodox church)--and Patriarch Alexy had crossed
      himself, or perhaps prayed to himself. (One can pray for many things!).

      The rest was "media hype".


      In Christ
      Fr. John R. Shaw
    • Olga Mitrenina
      Baref dzes, dear Father John, ... Patriarch-Catholicos Garegin and some other Armenian spiritual authorities graduated Moscow Patriarchate seminary in Zagorsk,
      Message 2 of 15 , Jan 2, 2001
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        Baref dzes, dear Father John,

        > I have studied the Armenian language and service books to some
        > extent--am no expert--but have seen nothing faintly resembling a "Moleben"
        > such as we are accustomed to.

        Patriarch-Catholicos Garegin and some other Armenian spiritual authorities
        graduated Moscow Patriarchate seminary in Zagorsk, so they know how to serve
        molebens:-)

        > However, a reference several years ago to Patriarch Alexy II
        > having "joined in a Moleben"

        It was not "a" reference, but it was a number of loud common prayers.
        There is an MP parish in Yereven, Khankavan, with a very good rector, Father
        Vladimir. You can discuss it with them. Although they count ROCA to be a
        schizm, they will probably tell you some interesting details.

        Olga
      • Rev. John R. Shaw
        ... There, you see--I would have said Parev tsez . But I started with the Western Armenian. In Christ Fr. John R. Shaw
        Message 3 of 15 , Jan 2, 2001
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          On Tue, 2 Jan 2001, Olga Mitrenina wrote:

          > Baref dzes, dear Father John,

          There, you see--I would have said "Parev tsez". But I started
          with the Western Armenian.
          In Christ
          Fr. John R. Shaw
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