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Anesthetizing our ROCOR Flock

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  • Ackerly, Olga
    We have just been told that at the Southern Mission Conference, it was said that we must accept autonomy from the MP, get to know them better, then wait 20
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 2, 2000
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      We have just been told that at the Southern Mission Conference, it was said that
      we must accept autonomy from the MP, get to know them better, then wait 20 years
      before joining them.

      How could such words be uttered, not to mention such action contemplated by some
      of our ROCOR clergy and laymen!

      Olga Dolskaya
      University of MO

      "Krugom izmena, i trusost', i obman"
      Tsar Muchenik Sv. Nikolai
    • Theodora
      snip ... said that ... years ... by some ... snip I break Fast to inlighten all that the above laymen were indeed at the Sourthern Mission Conference but,
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 2, 2000
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        snip
        > We have just been told that at the Southern Mission Conference, it was
        said that
        > we must accept autonomy from the MP, get to know them better, then wait 20
        years
        > before joining them.
        >
        > How could such words be uttered, not to mention such action contemplated
        by some
        > of our ROCOR clergy and laymen!

        snip

        I break Fast to inlighten all that the above "laymen" were indeed at the
        Sourthern Mission Conference but, and a big but, not at the Clergy
        Conference which was for Clergy only and held on the Monday following the
        Mission Conference. This layperson had a wonderful and edifying experience
        at the Conference. What ever is being discussed occurred at the Clergy
        Conference. God grant peace and hmility to all and know that we pray for
        our ROCOR that she may stay strong and true to our Faith.

        Theodora in the mountains
      • Michael Malloy
        ... The above makes me very sad. I think this is at least as bad a scandal. People are entitled to their views, however trading insults via the internet is
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 2, 2000
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          --- In orthodox-synod@egroups.com, hermitage@i... wrote:
          > Dear Miz Olga,...

          > John, monk

          The above makes me very sad. I think this is at least as bad a
          scandal. People are entitled to their views, however trading insults
          via the internet is not in anyone's best interest. Shame on you,
          "John, monk". You lost credibility for anything you may have said by
          starting your message that way.

          I know (Dr.) Olga Dolskaya from her wonderful classes at
          (Jordanville) Holy Trinity Monastery's summer music school. She is
          well informed and I respect her greatly.

          Michael Malloy
          Columbus, Ohio
        • hermitage@infoave.net
          Dear Miz Olga, It s not especially clear from your post as to what you are objecting to. The ROCA was not set up originally as a final attempt at
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 2, 2000
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            Dear Miz Olga,

            It's not especially clear from your post as to what you are objecting to.

            The ROCA was not set up originally as a "final" attempt at autocephaly, but
            instead was a temporary (and valid) measure so as to protect the Faithful in
            a time of severe persecution.

            I have been with ROCA for 25+ years, and do indeed have some idea of the
            true original ideologic concepts underlying our formation and continued
            existence.

            Dialogue with Moskva is NOT reprobate, though several issues need to be
            seriously addressed and formally agreed upon, in due course.

            The "convertitus" that many clergy seem to be encouraging is immature. This
            "convertititus" and "Ellis Island retro" is the "medication" that does the
            worst type of "anaesthetizing" of the Flock---to turn everyone into self
            righteous prigs who can't even see the forest for the trees.

            I have seen Bishops in bathing suits (oh my dear!), and Lycra (he was about
            80, oiks!) and shorts (gasp!), can you imagine???, and watching TV (Golden
            Girls, maybe?)!

            Scandalous on their part, huh?

            Nah, I wasn't the least bit scandalised, because there is a lot more to
            Orthodox maturity than just looking for a reason to be scandalised, or just
            looking at outward appearances, or trying to find fault with others so as to
            diminish our own responsibility for our own faults.

            All good to you and yours,
            In Christ,

            John, monk











            At 07:32 AM 12/2/00 -0600, you wrote:
            >We have just been told that at the Southern Mission Conference, it was said
            that
            >we must accept autonomy from the MP, get to know them better, then wait 20
            years
            >before joining them.
            >
            >How could such words be uttered, not to mention such action contemplated by
            some
            >of our ROCOR clergy and laymen!
            >
            >Olga Dolskaya
            >University of MO
            >
            > "Krugom izmena, i trusost', i obman"
            > Tsar Muchenik Sv. Nikolai
            >
            >
            >Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • matanna@aol.com
            In a message dated 12/2/00 8:33:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... Someone s been saying that, but priests who actually WERE there say that no, that was part of
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 2, 2000
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              In a message dated 12/2/00 8:33:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
              ackerlyo@... writes:

              > We have just been told that at the Southern Mission Conference, it was said
              > that
              > we must accept autonomy from the MP, get to know them better, then wait 20
              > years
              > before joining them.
              >
              Someone's been saying that, but priests who actually WERE there say that no,
              that was part of one remark by one priest about one way that things might
              transpire some day. Kind of different from the way it's been reported, and
              re-reported, and re-reported.

              You can look in the archives of the Synod list to see remarks by Fr. Gregory
              Williams, Fr. Joseph Honeycut and others. Be at peace, and keep us in your
              prayers.

              Matushka Ann Lardas
            • Fr. Gregory Williams
              ... Such things were NOT said. Witness the horror of the telephone game phenomenon. Caveat, all those who thoughtlessly perpetrate rumor and hearsay. --
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 2, 2000
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                >We have just been told that at the Southern Mission Conference, it
                >was said that
                >we must accept autonomy from the MP, get to know them better, then
                >wait 20 years
                >before joining them.
                >
                >How could such words be uttered, not to mention such action
                >contemplated by some
                >of our ROCOR clergy and laymen!
                >
                Such things were NOT said. Witness the horror of the "telephone
                game" phenomenon. Caveat, all those who thoughtlessly perpetrate
                rumor and hearsay.
                --
                --Fr. Gregory Williams

                * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
                1180 Orthodox Way
                Liberty, TN 37095-4366 USA

                Phone: (615) 536-5239
                FAX: (615) 536-5945
                E-mail: frgregory@...
              • Rd. Constantine Wright
                Glory to Jesus Christ! Glory Forever! ... I agree. With respect to Monk John s (and others ) words, I have often found that sarcasm is the last refuge of an
                Message 7 of 11 , Dec 2, 2000
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                  Glory to Jesus Christ! Glory Forever!

                  >From: "Michael Malloy" <mmalloy@...-state.edu>
                  >Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Anesthetizing our ROCOR Flock
                  >
                  >I know (Dr.) Olga Dolskaya from her wonderful classes at
                  >(Jordanville) Holy Trinity Monastery's summer music school. She is
                  >well informed and I respect her greatly.

                  I agree.

                  With respect to Monk John's (and others') words, I have often found that
                  sarcasm is the last refuge of an indefensible position...

                  With Christ's love,
                  Rd. Constantine


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                • Fr. Stephen Fraser
                  I also object to the flippant way in which Dr. Olga Dolskaya was addressed. I have known Olga for quite some time and have spoken with her many times. She,
                  Message 8 of 11 , Dec 2, 2000
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                    I also object to the flippant way in which Dr. Olga Dolskaya was addressed.

                    I have known Olga for quite some time and have spoken with her many times.
                    She, above all things, loves the Orthodox Faith and strives to live the Orthodox
                    way of life. I know I am embarrassing her by saying these things, but this
                    kind of response to her letter of concern cannot slip by without pointing out
                    its lack of respect for an Orthodox Christian who, I know, could teach
                    "John, monk" a few things about what is truly happening in certain areas of the
                    Orthodox Church.

                    In Christ,
                    Fr. Stephen


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Michael Malloy <mmalloy@...-state.edu>
                    To: <orthodox-synod@egroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 8:35 AM
                    Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Anesthetizing our ROCOR Flock


                    > --- In orthodox-synod@egroups.com, hermitage@i... wrote:
                    > > Dear Miz Olga,...
                    >
                    > > John, monk
                    >
                    > The above makes me very sad. I think this is at least as bad a
                    > scandal. People are entitled to their views, however trading insults
                    > via the internet is not in anyone's best interest. Shame on you,
                    > "John, monk". You lost credibility for anything you may have said by
                    > starting your message that way.
                    >
                    > I know (Dr.) Olga Dolskaya from her wonderful classes at
                    > (Jordanville) Holy Trinity Monastery's summer music school. She is
                    > well informed and I respect her greatly.
                    >
                    > Michael Malloy
                    > Columbus, Ohio
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Priest Seraphim Holland
                    ... Nope. I was there. Be careful about spreading lies and innuendo. Priest Seraphim Holland St Nicholas Orthodox Church, Dallas, Texas, USA
                    Message 9 of 11 , Dec 2, 2000
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                      > We have just been told that at the Southern Mission Conference, it was said that
                      > we must accept autonomy from the MP, get to know them better, then wait 20 years
                      > before joining them.

                      Nope. I was there. Be careful about spreading lies and innuendo.



                      Priest Seraphim Holland St Nicholas Orthodox Church, Dallas, Texas, USA
                      seraphim@... Ph:972/529-2754 MOBILE & VOICE MAIL 214 336-3464
                      FAX: 603/908-2408 Home Address: 2102 Summit, McKinney, TX 75070, USA
                      WEBMASTER FOR: St Nicholas Home Page - http://www.orthodox.net
                      Official ROCOR Page - http://www.rocor.org
                      10 questions (many subjects) http://www.orthodox.net/questions
                      Thoughts on the Sunday gospels http://www.orthodox.net/sermons
                    • Michael Nikitin
                      Presently, when a priest makes a negative remark about the MP, like Hieromonk Paisii did, right away he gets suspended. But if a positive remark about MP is
                      Message 10 of 11 , Dec 4, 2000
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                        Presently, when a priest makes a negative remark about the MP, like
                        Hieromonk Paisii did, right away he gets suspended. But if a positive remark
                        about MP is made,like Fr.Victor Potapov did, the
                        people on this list and the Bishops defend him?

                        During Metr.Philaret's and Bishop Averky time, when the bishops themselves
                        called MP "a harlot" for serving with pagans and different religions, we all
                        knew that was so and no one got suspended.

                        Has the ecclesiology changed? Most definitely!

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                      • Fr. Vladimir Tsurikov
                        ... Why is it, that Fr. Paissi s well covered suspension is still, after numerous clarifications being credited to his remarks, or beliefs? How come such
                        Message 11 of 11 , Dec 4, 2000
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                          On 12/4/00 9:15 AM, "Michael Nikitin" <mikeniki@...> wrote:

                          >
                          > Presently, when a priest makes a negative remark about the MP, like
                          > Hieromonk Paisii did, right away he gets suspended.
                          Why is it, that Fr. Paissi's well covered suspension is still, after
                          numerous clarifications being credited to his remarks, or beliefs? How come
                          such disinformation not only spreads so fast and so far, but, worse, sticks,
                          and to this day, Fr. Paissi seems to have suffered solely based on his
                          stance toward the MP?
                          Have you actually asked Fr. Paissi himself, or maybe asked the Bishop, who
                          was involved what the actual reason was? Facts seem to be ignored quiet
                          often unfortunately.
                          D. Vladimir
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