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Re: [orthodox-synod] More Actions Speak.....RE to Rdr Joseph

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  • Rev. John R. Shaw
    ... What is interesting to me, is that 1) when I wrote to a fellow-priest two years or so ago, I thought that I could make private remarks in confidence; 2)
    Message 1 of 4 , Dec 1, 2000
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      On Thu, 30 Nov 2000, Deacon Mark Smith wrote:

      > What is interesting is that Fr. John Shaw wrote this to me two
      > years ago... "that he was in personal correspondence with Patriarch
      > Alexis who told him that he would allow us to remain
      > "autonomous" if we would acknowledged him."
      >
      > With love in our Lord!
      > Fr. Andrew
      >
      What is interesting to me, is that 1) when I wrote to a
      fellow-priest two years or so ago, I thought that I could make private
      remarks in confidence; 2) although I mentioned having had a brief
      correspondince with the Patriarch, I did *not* say that he wrote to me
      about any church administrative questions. 3) I may have referred, in the
      same posting to Fr. Andrew or later, that Patriarch Alexy II has more than
      once stated *publicly* that he would be willing to allow the Church Abroad
      full inner autonomy (not "autocephaly") if mutual recognition were
      achieved; but he did not write that to *me*, nor did I ever mean to give
      anyone the idea that he did.

      Patriarch Alexy has also suggested (again publicly, and some years
      ago) that if there were mutual recognition, he would be glad to have *all*
      churches outside the former USSR under the aegis of the Church Abroad. But
      all these remarks were made during a period when there were no direct
      discussions between the Patriarchate and the Synod. If the two hierarchies
      are going to address each other face-to-face, both can state their
      positions.
      IN Christ
      Fr. John R. Shaw
    • fr elia yenovkian
      ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS KISS THE HAND OF A MASS MURDERER, A JUDAS, ORDER OF LENIN ( First Class) Hero of the Soviet Union, and then all our
      Message 2 of 4 , Dec 1, 2000
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        ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS KISS THE HAND OF A MASS MURDERER, A
        JUDAS, ORDER OF LENIN ( First Class) Hero of the Soviet Union, and
        then all our churches can be infiltrated, and become outposts
        for the KGB.
        INFILTRATED? WHAT HAVE WE GOT TO LOSE? Let's just get a
        blessing from the Metropolitan, before we do. (Did you Fr.
        Shaw?) Are the present activities not in defiance of the
        Pre-Sobor Epistle? And every Metropolitan we ever had? THEY ALL
        HAD THE SAME OFFER, EXACTLY. MET. EVLOGY even accepted it, BUT THE
        FAITHFUL NEVER WILL, NO MATTER WHAT OUR TRULY BELOVED BISHOPS
        DO. Let us pray that they do not look ridiculous because when
        they walk in the church the people could walk out!

        Fr. Elia

        http://www2.netdoor.com/~frelia

        Burning Bush Skete

        "Rev. John R. Shaw" wrote:

        > On Thu, 30 Nov 2000, Deacon Mark Smith wrote:
        >
        > > What is interesting is that Fr. John Shaw wrote this to me two
        > > years ago... "that he was in personal correspondence with Patriarch
        >
        > > Alexis who told him that he would allow us to remain
        > > "autonomous" if we would acknowledged him."
        > >
        > > With love in our Lord!
        > > Fr. Andrew
        > >
        > What is interesting to me, is that 1) when I wrote to a
        > fellow-priest two years or so ago, I thought that I could make private
        >
        > remarks in confidence; 2) although I mentioned having had a brief
        > correspondince with the Patriarch, I did *not* say that he wrote to me
        >
        > about any church administrative questions. 3) I may have referred, in
        > the
        > same posting to Fr. Andrew or later, that Patriarch Alexy II has more
        > than
        > once stated *publicly* that he would be willing to allow the Church
        > Abroad
        > full inner autonomy (not "autocephaly") if mutual recognition were
        > achieved; but he did not write that to *me*, nor did I ever mean to
        > give
        > anyone the idea that he did.
        >
        > Patriarch Alexy has also suggested (again publicly, and some
        > years
        > ago) that if there were mutual recognition, he would be glad to have
        > *all*
        > churches outside the former USSR under the aegis of the Church Abroad.
        > But
        > all these remarks were made during a period when there were no direct
        > discussions between the Patriarchate and the Synod. If the two
        > hierarchies
        > are going to address each other face-to-face, both can state their
        > positions.
        > IN Christ
        > Fr. John R. Shaw
        >
        >
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Rev. John R. Shaw
        ... My point was that I had been misquoted. I was merely trying to present information. The last time I saw Metropolitan Vitaly personally was before he was
        Message 3 of 4 , Dec 1, 2000
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          On Fri, 1 Dec 2000, fr elia yenovkian wrote:

          > INFILTRATED? WHAT HAVE WE GOT TO LOSE? Let's just get a
          > blessing from the Metropolitan, before we do. (Did you Fr.
          > Shaw?)

          My point was that I had been misquoted. I was merely trying to
          present information.

          The last time I saw Metropolitan Vitaly personally was before he
          was Metropolitan yet--in 1976 at Vl. Nikon's funeral. At present he is
          said to be unable to read letters because of poor vision, and I can hardly
          envision calling him up before replying to an e-mail. In any case, he is
          not my diocesan bishop.

          I couild just as well ask *you* if you "got the Metroplitan's
          blessing" before beginning all these public attacks on the decisions of
          our hierarchy.

          In Christ
          Fr. John R. Shaw
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