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Re: [orthodox-synod] ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS

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  • byakimov@csc.com.au
    This may of interest to all! Also, I would like to share with you some interesting comments on dialogue that I received from a friend this morning...
    Message 1 of 21 , Nov 30, 2000
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      This may of interest to all!

      "Also, I would like to share with you some interesting comments on
      "dialogue"
      that I received from a friend this morning...

      Unfortunately, what one means by the term "dialogue" is often unclear and
      left undefined. There is a tendency on the part of some to think that if we
      talk to the MP then we must be opening ourselves up to suggestions by them
      that required us to compromise our ecclesiology and stance in relation to
      modernism and ecumenism (sergianism). Here, the unspoken claim, then, is
      that "dialogue"
      means "willingness to consider compromise". I am not sure that this is
      what
      is really happening in most cases of our "dialogue" with the MP. Others
      understand "dialogue" to simply mean some sort of face to face discussion
      of
      differences that divide the churches without the implication that ROCOR is
      prepared to relinguish any of its principles."

      Unworthy Deacon Basil from Canberra



      orthodixie@... on 12/01/2000 09:56:26 AM

      Please respond to orthodox-synod@egroups.com

      To: orthodox-synod@egroups.com
      cc:
      Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS


      hieroschemamonk Elia writes:

      > Most of our clergy are deeply troubled, and afraid, and
      > leaderless.

      Uh ... not me. I believe that such comments are counterproductive in light
      of the Epistle from the Sobor and the Resolutions from the Southern
      Deanery.

      I once had a Council meeting where someone claimed that "everyone" was
      talking about ____ X _____. "Who?" I asked. "Oh," he said, "that's
      confidential." I replied, "No, you said *everyone* is talking. Now,
      unless
      you tell me names, I'm going to assume that *everyone* means YOU." In the
      end, it turned out that there were TWO people talking: a known gossip &
      the
      Council member.

      This forum -- the orthodoxy-synod list -- is no place to air such sweeping
      generalizations.


      FWIW,

      Fr Joseph Huneycutt
      St Nicholas Church (ROCOR) - Fletcher, NC
      http://www.stnicholasparish.org/


      Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
    • President Eu Valentina F. de Grigorieff
      ... of ... I can answer that question as I received a fax from our Lesna Convent in Normandy right after our Sobor Epistle has been issued : Deacon Pavel
      Message 2 of 21 , Dec 1, 2000
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        --- In orthodox-synod@egroups.com, fr elia yenovkian <frelia@n...>
        wrote:
        > Dear Robert,
        > The Lord Bless! BY all means, please turn the second hand
        > elliptical references to first hand experience, like this:
        > 1) Compare side by side the Metropolitan's Preconciliar
        > Epistle with the Sobor's Epistle. Notice that the latter
        > ignores the former, and the Sobor even sets up a committed
        of
        > Abp. Mark, Bishops Michael and Gabriel , Fr. Perekrestof, and a
        > deacon whose name escapes me (I am old)

        I can answer that question as I received a fax from our Lesna Convent
        in Normandy right after our Sobor Epistle has been issued : Deacon
        Pavel Ivanoff from Jordanville. The name of Fr. Nicolas Artemoff from
        Munich was also mentioned.

        About this committee, I would add an extract of an email sent to me
        by one of his member (to whom i began to send some info and articles
        as Keston reports, and about links between MP and russian mafia,
        illegal rackets) :
        "Date : vendredi 24 novembre 2000 20:59
        I am aware that I have received an obedience to be on a commitee to
        deal with issues regarding the MP. We have not yet met, so I am
        unaware what the goals of the committee are." (as emails are not
        official proofs and can be denied at any time, i don't even see it
        necessary to mention the author, but have it available on my
        computer).
        So our Sobor would have appointed a committee whose goals have not
        been defined and explained to member(s)on such a major topic that
        divides all of us in a terrible battle right now, suspecting each
        others of "treason"???? If such a committee does ever exist (no
        official existence since no official info from official ROCOR site)
        how would it be possible to work for members spread over 2
        continents, and certainly very busy persons? What could anyone
        conclude about the authors of the works they would ever jointly sign?

        Living in Europe and having many friends there, I take this
        opportunity to say a few words about Geneva. I have read about
        the "other priest (Fr Adrian) who would be studying now in Russia",
        the one who has not been allowed to celebrate as he did not bring
        repentance like Fr. Pavel did : oficially he is "ill" and people have
        not seen him in Geneva for a long time. Anyway, this is only gossips,
        and i don't think talking it would add anything to the "smouta" our
        Church is undergoing, and noone seems to put an end to this.

        I am not at all a specialist on Church history, on Canon Laws, on
        Church politics, i only try to be the best possible "orthodox
        christian" i can, and thus cannot judge anyone else except myself.
        I can only express the feeling of a humble laic, who, as many others
        in Europe, have had their "golden age" for nearly half a century with
        our beloved archbishop Vl. Antony of eternal memory who left us 7
        years ago for a better world. We were far from all these "politics"
        as Vl.Antony did not tolerate any gossip and we all loved him and
        respected him, and all our Synod through him. We now have to face
        that we, all of us, are simple human beings capable of mistakes.
        Very difficult for us to find the frontier between true information,
        manipulation, expression of envy, power, revenge, etc...
        So many good and bad feelings seem to be hidden behind the words full
        of piety and humility with which everyone from all sides ends their
        statements. How separate the good from the bad? So many questions
        remain unanswered by our Synod.
        I'm sorry to have been a little long, maybe too personal, and to have
        more asked questions that said interesting things. We are in Europe
        just closer to Russia in many points, and are in a good position to
        know and understand what happens there.
        I wish we could all remain on ideas and circulate verified
        information, without personal attacks and judgements.
        Please forgive me if i ever hurt anyone, and let us not forget each
        oursleves in our prayers.
        Wish you all a Nativity lent full of graces!
        Valentina
      • Fr. Gregory Williams
        God bless you, Fr. Basil from Canberra, and protect you in your coming surgery! Indeed, your words on dialogue are well spoken. With Bishop Gabriel s
        Message 3 of 21 , Dec 1, 2000
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          God bless you, Fr. Basil from Canberra, and protect you in your coming surgery!

          Indeed, your words on dialogue are well spoken. With Bishop
          Gabriel's blessing, I expect perhaps early next year to enter into
          "dialogue" with some United Methodists in this part of the country.
          Rest assured that we will not be seeking autocephaly from them, or
          offering in any way to compromise the Orthodox Faith! Rather, the
          difficult question (and the more guidance I get the happier I will
          be) is how, indeed, to approach such a meeting making it clear from
          the very outset that there can be NO compromise in matters of the
          FaithŠ without effectively slamming the door before it gets open.
          --
          --Fr. Gregory Williams

          * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
          1180 Orthodox Way
          Liberty, TN 37095-4366 USA

          Phone: (615) 536-5239
          FAX: (615) 536-5945
          E-mail: frgregory@...
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