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We love you Nikolaj

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  • Deacon Mark Smith
    ... That is not what Elizabeth said, she said God allows , the existance of all these. ... We separate the sin from the sinner and point out that the path of
    Message 1 of 2 , Nov 8 2:05 AM
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      Nikolaj wrote:
      >Dear Elizabeth
      >You - quite - conveniently
      >"forgot" to comment on the first
      >half of my letter...
      >But - Elizabeth
      >do you really think that ROC/MP
      >is equal to "Satanists, Jehovah Witnesses, Hindus, Wiccans and 23,000
      >Protestant denominations." ?
      That is not what Elizabeth said, she said "God allows", the existance of all these.
      >Because if so, you certainly practice an
      >interesting variation of love for your much-suffering Christian brothers
      >and sisters in Russia, who whatever might be said of them,
      >share the same creed as you have, and pray to the same saints.
      >Condemning and putting ca 40% (Orthodox baptized)of the Russian people
      >in the same league as the above quoted is a rather
      >harsh judgement to make for a Christian.
      We separate the sin from the sinner and point out that the path of heresy and schism separates one from God and leads to perdition. If we hated the sinner, schismatic and heretic we would find it much easier to simply encourage them on that path, but instead, in love does the Holy Church try to warn the sinner, schismatic and heretic of the error and destruction of their path.
      As for the creed; the heresy of Ecumenism, fervently followed by the MP, tramples on the doctrine of "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church".
      Concerning praying to the same saints; we hope that indeed they not only pray to them, but also follow their example, especially the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of the Russian Land who separated themselves from Sergianism and every heresy, which is why they were martyred, lost their earthly life and are now glorified in the Kingdom of Heaven.
      >Likewise judging the same 40% of the Russian people
      >for the sins of the murderous soviet regime is also a
      >rather hasty conclusion.
      >You know (it is hoped) that we shall be judged
      >by the same means that we judge others.
      I do not see where she is judging, but simply pointing out that the New martyrs died for the truth, it was clear, black and white, to them; submit themselves to Sergius and the Bolsheviks gaining earthly life, glory, and freedom, but a tortured conscience and eternal fire, or, remain with the True Church and canonical hierarchs but lose this fleeting earthly life and gain eternal life and glory in the Heavens.
      >The sins of the soviet regime and the sins of the
      >MP/ROC hierachs is on their heads.
      >Not ours. In our zeal for preserving our Faith untainted
      >let us not drop to the level of "bible-bashing".
      Saint Ignatius of Antioch tells us that where the bishop is there are the people.
      Please remember that it is not only the liar that will be condemned, but also those who believe the lie. (They do not have the love of the truth to seek out the truth.) Though perhaps it will not be the same for them, still eternal condemnation is eternal condemnation. So please, for the salvation of their souls, encourage everyone in the MP to separate themselves from the liars, heresiarchs and murderers, perhaps one day they will change, but do not gamble your eternal life on it.
      >The MP/ROC has canonized ca. 850 New Martyrs and
      >confessors murdered under the Communist Yoke.
      True it is a nice gesture, but an uncanonical body has no power or right to do any such thing. From Sergius on our bishops called illegal the election of every "patriarch" in Moskow.
      >So you see, the memory of these martyrs are not totally forgotten
      >in Russia. Nor will they be in the future.
      >Now as well as in the future people can venerate these martyrs openly.
      Again and again, we hope they do more than venerate them, or rather truly venerate them by following their example and seperating themselves from all heresies and encouraging others around them to also follow the true path of the New Martyrs and Confessors.
      >We must not give up hoping and praying for Russia - our Spiritual >motherland!
      >This is essential for ROCOR.
      We pray in all our petitions for the suffering Russian land and after the litany after the gospel reading in the Divine Liturgy our bishops and priests pray the most beautiful prayer (written by the Blessed Metropolitan Antony of Kiev) for the "salvation of Russia" which includes these words: "But unto those who have departed from Thee and seek Thee not, be Thou manifest, that not one of them perish, but that all of them be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth;"
      It is entirely up to their free will whether they want to be numbered with those who have seperated themselves from the Church or with the New Martyrs and Confessors.
      It is not we who seperate or condemn or judge, it is the heresy one professes that seperates him from God. It is the Holy Fathers of the 7 Ecumenical (Universal) Councils that declared anathema against those who say that there is more than one Holy Church, (Ecumenism), precisely in their desire to protect their flock and out of love for the heretics themselves, after this it is always up to them to repent.
      We do not hate them or the authorities that they submit themselves to, but out of love for them call them to flee from evil and follow the truth and the example of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors,.....the choice is up to them, are they prepared to follow them?

      With sincere love,
      Deacon Mark Smith

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Michael Nikitin
      ROCOR does concelebrate with the Serbs who are in Ecumenism and has nothing against communing with the MP. So why open ROCOR Churches in Russia? ROCOR should
      Message 2 of 2 , Nov 9 8:28 AM
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        ROCOR does concelebrate with the Serbs who are in Ecumenism and
        has nothing against communing with the MP. So why open ROCOR
        Churches in Russia? ROCOR should make a decision. Concelebrate and
        commune with the MP and Serbs or not (concelebration goes on unofficialy
        about which we can read in "Pravoslavnaia Rus" and etc.). Otherwise it is
        confusing to the people. The ones that are strong in the faith leave. Others
        are leaving because they don't want to be lukewarm.

        Nikolaj wrote:

        Dear Deacon Mark and Elizabeth

        It is quite interesting
        when ealier this year,
        a very unjust and dishonourable
        attack was repeatedly being
        made upon the memory
        of the Tsarmartyr Nikolaj II.
        by one of the none-orthodox
        members on this "orthodox" list,
        Apart from me,
        only 3 out of, at that time 386
        members came to the defense
        of the Tsarmartyr!
        So much for the love of
        the New Martyrs!?!

        It is also interesting that
        ecumenism in ROCOR is
        tolerated without any objections?
        Marching with both this and that
        "church" for all kinds of "cases".
        Keeping pagan names as well
        as keeping "dialogue" with protestants
        in various lutheran newspapers
        is also accepted.
        How come that one ecumenism
        is trampling on the Creed, but
        not the other?
        Maybe we should remove the
        big piece of wood from
        our own eyes before we try
        to correct our brothers?

        In Christ

        PS - I love you too my friend,
        and I am in ROCOR like you.
        Please pray for me this dispute makes
        me go through much temptation.

        "Forgiveness is better than revenge. "
        St. Tikhon of Zadonsk

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