Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Sv: [orthodox-synod] What continues to separate us from the Moscow Patriarchate?

Expand Messages
  • Nikolaj
    1. Sergianism is an evil existing in spite of the fall of communism. Nobody denies that. It is just not only a problem in the post-soviet countries. There is
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 7 11:30 PM
      Sergianism is an evil existing in spite of the fall of communism. Nobody denies that. It is just not only a problem in the post-soviet countries. There is also a form of "american sergianism", which is quite as destructive for ROCOR as the post-soviet sergianism is for Orthodox Russia.
      The sick opinion of the MP/ROC that ROCOR is schismatic is indeed not worth a comment, but when a certain member of ROCOR publicly appealed to the pope of rome for assistance in getting back our monastery in the Holy land - one might say this was indeed a combination of both ecumenism and american sergianism.
      Whatever personal desperation and good intentions, was behind this appeal, it certainly gave the MP/ROC what it needed in their propaganda.

      That the New martyrs and Confessors has been glorified in Russia, I see as a sign of pressure from below, from the Russian people - and not as a decision of Mr Ridiger. It is well known that Mr Ridiger did not want neither the canonization of The Tsarist Martyrs or the New Martyrs as well, and that he dragged his feet for a long time in this case. I believe he was forced to carry this decision out because of a pressure from below. From the people.
      It is surely known to God, that the Russian people is struggling to achieve spiritual feedom from the yoke of communism, and the glorification of the New Martyrs and confessors is a step in the right direction. Perhaps not from the point of MP/ROC, but indeed from our point of view.

      "Oneness of mind" can be felt by sp,e pious ROCOR member in relation to some pious ROC/MP member, because we are Orthodox Christians, but this is hardly in *spite* of our Creed? Maybe the spiritual distance between ROC/MP and certain american parts of ROCOR comes not from the juristicional policies but from differences between American Orthodox and Russian Orthodox culture? (If such concepts exists at all today?) Perhaps the distance between the common Russian Orthodox believer and the common American Orthodox believer, is artificially kept alive by those who for all costs does not want a "Oneness of Mind"? Both in the east and in the west.
      I don't have the answer, it is just an interesting thought.
      Of course Mr Ridiger and his gang sets themselves apart from any christian unity by their criminal policies, abroad as well as in Russia itself. No doubt, but if necessarily every juristiction, who is in communion with the MP/ROC has lost Grace, then we in ROCOR are the only Orthodox people in the world.
      Then - even the 40% of the Russian people who confesses the Holy Orthodox Faith has no grace and no chance of salvation. Only when they get a new leader they have a chance. Even though they never had a saying whether they wanted the KGB-Ridiger or not?
      This is I believe both arrogant and a "mechanical" way of thinking, which comes rather close to the papistic "indulgence" principle. "Get a new leader and you will have your grace back!"
      I believe an eventual Spiritual revival of Russia will not come from it's leaders - clerical or secular, but from the mass of believers, confessing the Orthodox Faith.

      Ecumenism is the worst and most dangerous heresy, because it seduces Orthodox Christians by the thousands, postulating "Brotherhood" and "Unity", when in fact all it wants is a masonic, horrible world-religion, in which there will be no place for the Orthodox Christian. Unfortunately the yoke of official ecumenism is still on the much-suffering Russian people.
      Ecumenism, however, also thrives in ROCOR - unofficially of course. This list is a good example. You do not even have to be an Orthodox Christian to be a member of this list.
      Especially in the west, many ROCOR members keep "half" their protestant identity, keep their pagan names, and attend heretic "churches" and engage in "dialogues" quite frequently.

      I do not want to attack ROCOR, since I am a staunch Tsarist and a conservative, I know the sufferings of our church only too well - I just want to point out, that to me, it seems that we are not free from the faults we accuse the MP/ROC of.

      May the New Martyrs pray for you
      In Christ


      "Forgiveness is better than revenge. "
      St. Tikhon of Zadonsk
      + + +

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <intrprtr@...>
      To: <orthodox-synod@egroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 4:15 AM
      Subject: [orthodox-synod] What continues to separate us from the Moscow Patriarchate?

      > On this Day Of Sorrow and Mourning, remember in Thy Kingdom, O Lord, the
      > souls of 150 million
      > Russian victims of the bol'shevik butchers of Holy Rus'!
      > ==================================================================
      > What continues to separate us from the Moscow Patriarchate?
      > By His Grace, AGAFANGEL, the Bishop of Simferopol' and the Crimea
      > After the recurrent call "For unification." which resounded from the lips
      > of Aleksii (Ridiger), I -- one of the hierarchs of the Synod of the Russian
      > Orthodox Church Abroad -- would like to share some of my thoughts regarding
      > this matter, which, naturally, in no way do I claim to be the belief of the
      > fullness of our Church. The general opinion of the hierarchs of our Church
      > will be formulated at the Sobor of Bishops, which will convene in the
      > second part of October of this year [AD 2000].
      > Our objections to the Moscow Patriarchate have been expressed on
      > more than one occasion. They are:
      > 1. The question of "sergianism."
      > 2. The question of the New Martyrs
      > 3. The question of ecumenism.
      > Now, following the "jubilee" Sobor of the MP, our opinion,
      > doubtless, must be refined, somewhat.
      > 1. In the matter of Sergianism. Sergianism, as we know well,
      > began when Metropolitan Sergii (Starogorodskii) usurped authority in the
      > Church. In that case it was impossible to gather a Sobor and to come out
      > with a clear statement concerning his actions. He had usurped total
      > authority in the Church; and, at the direction of the theomachs, he
      > personally forbade many eminent metropolitans, archbishops and bishops, who
      > were not in agreement with his actions, to perform church-services . On
      > the basis of now-disclosed documents, it is clear that he became the
      > willing agent of the theomachic regime in the matter of creating schism and
      > destroying the Orthodox Church. That usurpation of power still continues
      > on, from that day to this, as the now-past Sobor has clearly
      > illustrated. We know that an entire series of important documents was
      > ratified in the course of it: an Ustav [Statutes], a Social Doctrine,
      > Principles governing the MP's relations with the heterodox, statements
      > regarding the Ukrainian and Estonian churches, etc. It is more than
      > evident -- even to one uninformed -- that it is impossible to study in
      > detail, and to deliberate upon, decisions of such scope in the course of
      > only three working-days. The moreso, in that the drafts of the documents
      > to be ratified by the hierarchs were presented to them at the Sobor
      > immediately before they were to vote on them.
      > In the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad, there are only 19 bishops;
      > we do not delve into "destiny-bearing" documents of such scope (among us,
      > to God be the glory, there always has been -- and is -- a sobornoye
      > [collective] conclusion regarding general issues), but two weeks of
      > deliberations is hardly enough time for us to demarcate the current
      > ecclesiastical situation. The opinion of each individual hierarch must be
      > listened to attentively; and, consequently, it must be taken into
      > consideration.
      > A decision is reached only when, through discussion, unanimity is
      > arrived at regarding the matter under consideration. It is in such an
      > approach that the paramount manifestation of sobornost' in the Orthodox
      > Church is contained.. The very manner in which the Sobor took place in the
      > MP points to the absence of sobornost' in the Moscow Patriarchate, and to
      > the on-going usurpation of power there by a ruling clique, which had been
      > set upon a "pedestal" by the communists, in order to wage war against
      > religion in the USSR.
      > Everything took place in accordance with methods with which we are
      > well-acquainted from the past: an issue would be posed and automatically
      > voted upon. The role of those bishops who were present there came down to
      > being that of members of a bureaucratic gathering, who unanimously
      > "endorsed" the decisions that were pushed through.
      > 2. In the matter of the New Martyrs. Aleskii (Ridiger) constantly
      > calls our Church a "schismatic body", our parishes in the countries of the
      > CIS are persecuted mercilessly by the Moscow Patriarchate; while, abroad,
      > this organization constantly attempts to appropriate ROCOR property to
      > itself. Yet, the Sobor canonized as Saints many members of our Church,
      > i.e., according to the testimony of the MP "of a schismatic body." But,
      > can there be "holy schismatics"? Where is the logic in this? This matter
      > provides more than ample proof of a manifest contradiction within the MP.
      > 3. In the matter of ecumenism. The Sobor ratified principles
      > governing relations with the heterodox. This document, in part, states
      > that the Latins and the Monophysites are also the Church. As a whole, this
      > self-contradictory document is an expressionless sound which, in reality,
      > neither affirms nor confesses anything. Aleksii (Ridiger) plainly
      > recognizes the papists as a Church equivalent to the Orthodox. To this
      > day, the issue of ecumenism is an open question.
      > These are only some of the aspects of the discrepancies between us. But it
      > is also possible, on that basis, to come to the conclusion that the issues
      > which separate us still remain unresolved.
      > Coming back to the question of calls for unification, we can
      > conclude the following: what is needed for us to unite is not diplomatic
      > agreement, but ONENESS OF MIND in all the prevalent issues. Were we to
      > become LIKE each other in confessing the Orthodox Faith, then the question
      > of uniting would not even exist -- we would be united by the will of God,
      > even were we to oppose it with all of our might.
      > ==================================================================
      > Translated by G. Spruksts, from the Russian text ("Chto prodolzhayet
      > razdelyat' nas s Moskovskoi patriarkhiyei?"), which may be found at:
      > http://vertograd.narod.ru/0900/tema5.htm (issue No. 7-8, 2000 of
      > "VERTOGRAD-Inform")
      > English-language translation copyright © 2000 by The Russian Cultural
      > Heritage Society, The Saint Stefan Of Perm' Guild, and the Translator. All
      > rights reserved.
      > =======================================================================================================================
      > -- GeoS
      > **********************************************************************************************************************"Communing
      > with great Russian ... culture ..., with its eternal humaneness and
      > principled values, can be but beneficial for each person in expanding his
      > horizons; and in those people who are capable of thought, it will even
      > tend, in the final analysis, to stimulate them toward justice and
      > liberty." -- Vladimir Rudinskii
      > **********************************************************************************************************************
      > http://www.geocities.com/kitezhgrad/
      > (presently under construction)
      > Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.