Troparia for Fathers of First Six Ecumenical Councils and Damnation
- What really stuck out this weekend was one of the troparia which we sung
last night and this morning:
The mindless Arius, showing himself to be a servant of a created being,
and Macedonius, likewise revealed as abominable,
are equally tormented in the fire of Gehenna with the Hellenes.
There are very few direct statements in the liturgical texts about who is in
although many more in heaven (all the canonized saints are by virtue of
canonization known to be in heaven--they would not have been canonized
otherwise). This is only the second such troparia that I know of. The
says that Arius is tormented with the Hagarenes. Note that while classes of
people are mentioned, individuals (other than Arius and Macedonius) are
not. I do not know of any other individuals specifically listed among the
This shows how extraordinarily seriously the church took these heresies that
the divinity of the Son and the Spirit. Even great persecuters are not
liturgically. I heard that an iconographer (in the free world)
put Stalin in his depiction of hell--and was
told he must remove it because we do not know who is in hell. (Stalin
seems likely, even if we cannot say with certainty, I must say).
Am I missing other cases of people liturgically mentioned as in
Under the mercy,
>There is, therefore, a sense in which Judas was fully active in the plan ofI do not know of any liturgical texts which make statements about
>salvation, a man whose "work" (however contemptable, in human terms) is no
>worse than that of the person whom Jesus healed of demons. Jesus said to
>him: "See that you sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you."
>And what did the man do? He went out and told the Jewish leaders it was
>Jesus who had healed him. Thus, he did a sinful thing, and, presumably, "a
>worse thing" came upon him.
>Maybe, at the last, even Satan can repent?
Judas being in hell, only Arius and Macedonius. Thus, I am not
sure what this is responding too.
I like what Bp. Kallistos had to say (paraphrased): it is heresy to
assert that everyone will be reconciled to God in the end. However,
we may hope that it will be so. Human freedom means that we cannot
assert that everyone will be freed from hell---because that implies
that all must come to love Love. We may hope it, but freedom means
that we cannot know that this will occur.
By the way, on another list, someone asked me where the troparia about
Arius being punished with the Hagarenes appears. Made a quick pass over
the canon at Matins in the Pentecostarion for the Fathers and didn't
find it. Does anyone remember where it is?
Under the mercy,