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re: [orthodox-synod] The Incarnation in Popular Culture

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  • arescan@email.com
    He who sees me sees the Father! (+Emanuel, the unworthy)
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 6, 2000
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      He who sees me sees the Father!

      (+Emanuel, the unworthy)


      > ** Original Subject: [orthodox-synod] The Incarnation in Popular Culture
      > ** Original Sender: pwrbarrett@...
      > ** Original Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 17:36:41 -0400 (EDT)

      > ** Original Message follows...

      >
      > I apologize for cross-posting this. In addition, somebody
      > is sure to point out that I could spend my time better.
      > But I'd like to see what kind of comments y'all have on
      > how the Incarnation is viewed in popular culture, and I
      > have two examples. The first basically denies (or seems
      > ignorant of) the Incarnation; the second implies that it
      > doesn't matter. Both represent heretical views; I know
      > that. But I'd like to know if anyone has any insights
      > beyond pointing out the heretical nature of these views.
      >
      > Let me be clear that I'm not advocating these points of
      > view. I'm just looking for some perceptive comment on them.
      >
      > * * * * * * *
      >
      > The first is the song "One of Us," by Joan Osborne. It
      > says, in part:
      >
      > what if God was one of us?
      > just a slob like one of us?
      > just a stranger on the bus
      > trying to make his way home?
      >
      > if God had a face, what would it look like?
      > and would you want to see
      > if seeing meant that you would have to believe
      > in things like heaven and in jesus
      > and the saints and all the prophets?
      >
      > * * * * * * *
      >
      > The second is "Memnoch the Devil," by Anne Rice.
      > Understand that this novel denies the full humanity
      > of our Savior. She has Him say:
      >
      > "I am God Incarnate. How could I have a human soul?
      > What is important is that I will remain in this body as
      > it is tortured and slain; and my death will be evidence
      > of my Love for those whom I have created and allowed
      > to suffer so much. I will share their pain and know their
      > pain."
      >
      > He also says that at times He even allowed Himself to
      > forget He was God, but at the time He has this conversation
      > with the devil, He's fully aware of His divinity:
      >
      > "You've known all along that you were God. You mentioned
      > times when you thought you were mad or almost forgot,
      > but those were brief! Too brief! And now as you plot your
      > death, you know Who you are and you won't forget it, will you?"
      >
      > "No, I won't. I must be the Son of God Incarnate to fulfill my
      > ministry, to work my miracles, of course. That's the whole
      > point."
      >
      > "Then, Lord, you don't know what it means to be flesh!"
      >
      > * * * * * * *
      >
      > Comments?
      >
      > Patrick Barrett
      >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > Visit www.ibelieve.com today and get a FREE book by Chuck Swindoll!
      > http://click.egroups.com/1/6182/9/_/4386/_/962919391/
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      > This mailing list's archives are at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
      >
      >
      >


      >** --------- End Original Message ----------- **

      >
    • LazarusDos@webtv.net
      For the high priest we have [Jesus] is not incapable of feeling our weaknesses with us, but has been put to the test in exactly the same way as ourselves,
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 6, 2000
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        "For the high priest we have [Jesus] is not incapable of feeling our
        weaknesses with us, but has been put to the test in exactly the same way
        as ourselves, apart from sin. Let us, then, have no fear in approaching
        the throne of grace to receive mercy and to find grace when we are in
        need of help. "-Hebrews 4:15-16.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Sandra Thompson
        Why? ... http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 6, 2000
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          Why?
          > But I'd like to see what kind of comments y'all have on
          > how the Incarnation is viewed in popular culture, and I
          > have two examples. The first basically denies (or seems
          > ignorant of) the Incarnation; the second implies that it
          > doesn't matter. Both represent heretical views; I know
          > that. But I'd like to know if anyone has any insights
          > beyond pointing out the heretical nature of these views.
          > and the saints and all the prophets?

          > The second is "Memnoch the Devil," by Anne Rice.
          > Understand that this novel denies the full humanity
          > of our Savior. She has Him say:
          >
          > "I am God Incarnate. How could I have a human soul?
          > What is important is that I will remain in this body as
          > it is tortured and slain; and my death will be evidence
          > of my Love for those whom I have created and allowed
          > to suffer so much. I will share their pain and know their
          > pain."
          >
          > He also says that at times He even allowed Himself to
          > forget He was God, but at the time He has this conversation
          > with the devil, He's fully aware of His divinity:
          >
          > "You've known all along that you were God. You mentioned
          > times when you thought you were mad or almost forgot,
          > but those were brief! Too brief! And now as you plot your
          > death, you know Who you are and you won't forget it, will you?"
          >
          > "No, I won't. I must be the Son of God Incarnate to fulfill my
          > ministry, to work my miracles, of course. That's the whole
          > point."
          >
          > "Then, Lord, you don't know what it means to be flesh!"
          >
          > * * * * * * *
          >
          > Comments?
          >
          > Patrick Barrett
          >
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > Visit www.ibelieve.com today and get a FREE book by Chuck Swindoll!
          > http://click.egroups.com/1/6182/9/_/4386/_/962919391/
          > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          > This mailing list's archives are at
          http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
          >
          >
        • pwrbarrett@aol.com
          In a message dated 7/6/2000 9:28:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sandra@geckonet.net writes: Because I m curious to see if anybody else s opinion
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 6, 2000
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            In a message dated 7/6/2000 9:28:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
            sandra@... writes:

            << Why? >>

            Because I'm curious to see if anybody else's opinion
            agrees with mine. I think these examples reveal a
            debased view of humanity.

            C.G. Jung said, "About a third of my cases are suffering
            from no clinically definable neurosis, but from the
            senselessness and emptiness of their lives. It seems
            to me, however, that this can well be described as the
            general neurosis of our time."

            These examples of popular culture seem to me to
            indicate that this "general neurosis of our time" has
            become so widespread that some people now see
            it as a given of the human condition. There can be
            no Incarnation because without this senselessness,
            without despair, one can't be fully human. I think
            it's rather shocking if our culture has become so
            debased that we now see this kind of senselessness
            and emptiness as normal.

            The lyrics, "What if God was ... just a slob like one
            of us" reveal, it seems to me, a lot about how we
            look at ourselves and the world.

            I was wondering if anyone else had the same
            impression.

            Patrick
          • LJames6034@aol.com
            My maternal grandfather was a mine superintendent. In those days, the superintendent was Father Figure, as well as employer. Once, and I only know this story
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 9, 2000
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              My maternal grandfather was a mine superintendent. In those days, the
              superintendent was Father Figure, as well as employer.

              Once, and I only know this story via word-of-mouth, via my mother, one of
              the men came running to my grandfather and said to him: "Some quickly, my
              son is bleeding to death."

              My grandfather paused for a moment and said: "Go home, the bleeding has
              stopped."

              Was it a miracle?

              I was supposed to believe it was. How else could one explain such a thing?
              Hence, it is not necessarily for one to God Incarnate to do such things. One
              has only to believe.

              As Jesus said: "Greater things than these shall you do."

              But, all the more reason to suppose that one who is flesh and blood can, in
              fact, know what it is like to do such things, and NOT be God.

              ALJJ+
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