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Re: [orthodox-synod] Concerning ... Rights and Duties ...

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  • emrys`nz
    Has the world gone mad of late, or is it just this list? The local cemetery is overflowing with dead Russian alcoholics, members of this parish, who had access
    Message 1 of 2 , Apr 3, 2000
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      Has the world gone mad of late, or is it just this list? 
       
      The local cemetery is overflowing with dead Russian alcoholics, members of this parish, who had access to all the spiritual means which you detail below and which Nikolaj also recommended earlier.  So what failed them?  Was it the Church, the previous parish priest?  What do you do in the States when the spiritual means offered by the Church is not able to bring about a cure?  No more than it can cure, except by rare miracles, broken limbs and cancerous tissue.
       
      AA is the only programme which is up and running in this country and without out it there may be even more of our people with lives and families torn asunder by alcohol addiction.  I think it is just as foolish to spurn the assistance offered by "the world" in these matters as it would be to counsel people not to have recourse to doctors and physicians for broken limbs. 
       
      Fr Ambrose
      ===================
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: fraese
      Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 5:41 PM
      Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Concerning ... Rights and Duties ...

      My husband did a lot of research on the 12 Step program about five years ago.  This program is being used for everything from AA to Overeater's Anonymous, and a lot in between. It was actually one of the things that brought us to the ROCA - because we saw that there was absolutely no hope for change through the '12 Steps', and the modern Orthodox (at least here in Alberta) are all pushing 12-Step meetings in their churches. Instead of teaching the Orthodox way of life, the teachings of the fathers, the church, the sacraments, for overcoming the hold that passions have on us, they teach modern mishmash.
      Theodora
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: emrys`nz
      Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 1:56 PM
      Subject: [orthodox-synod] Concerning ... Rights and Duties ...

      Nikolaj,
       
      Your unfounded assertions can, and should, be questioned.  I know people who have cause to be grateful to AA for returning them to a sober life style. But even if only one drunk were to recover through the AA programme, does it not put you in mind of the parable of the one lost sheep?
       
      Fr Ambrose
      ===============================
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Nikolaj
       
      AA does not work! AA suggests a fake god of your own imagination.
      9 out of 10 who attend their first meeting never return.
      out those who stay, only a very very little percentage gain recovery.
       
      Alcoholism is a demon . neither new - nor incurable.
      It is in the Scriptures how to drive out these demons.
       
      Nikolaj
       
       

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    • pwrbarrett@aol.com
      In a message dated 4/3/2000 9:59:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, fraese@telusplanet.net writes:
      Message 2 of 2 , Apr 6, 2000
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        In a message dated 4/3/2000 9:59:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
        fraese@... writes:

        << My husband did a lot of research on the 12 Step program about five years
        ago. This program is being used for everything from AA to Overeater's
        Anonymous, and a lot in between. It was actually one of the things that
        brought us to the ROCA - because we saw that there was absolutely no hope for
        change through the '12 Steps', and the modern Orthodox (at least here in
        Alberta) are all pushing 12-Step meetings in their churches. Instead of
        teaching the Orthodox way of life, the teachings of the fathers, the church,
        the sacraments, for overcoming the hold that passions have on us, they teach
        modern mishmash.
        Theodora >>

        I don't doubt that there are legitimate and serious
        complaints to be made about 12-step programs.
        But when you're drowning, and somebody throws
        you a rope, you don't discuss ropemaking. AA
        is better than nothing, and for many people, it IS
        AA or nothing.

        Love,

        Patrick
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